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The word "saved" is not in the best MSS & translations:
New American Standard Bible
The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
No only the saved are going into the city read on a few verses on
after the great white throne judgement there is no other judgement. So the ones who are cast into the lake of fire will not have any more judgement that is final. Where does it saved they will have any more judgement for a second chance to be saved?You missed my point. I don't dispute that.
All will be saved.
https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Where does it saved they will have any more judgement for a second chance to be saved?
also where does it say that God's mercy will be upon those in the lake of fire. We read of his wrath abiding on those who believe not, not his Mercy when in judgement.
Jesus also asked some how they shall escape the donation of hell?
Even better than that. They WILL be saved (Rom.5:18-19).
Evidently wrath does not rule out salvation:
Because I have sinned against him,
I will bear the LORD’s wrath,
until he pleads my case
and upholds my cause.
He will bring me out into the light;
I will see his righteousness.
(Micah 7:9)
Yet He never spoke of a torture chamber where anyone is tormented for eternity. Instead He said, love your enemies.
It says nothing about them being written later in the book of life or of them getting out of the lake of fire
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
It is common for adjectives to be formed from nouns. Not all adjectives are formed this way, but some are. There is, of course, always some type of relationship between the meaning of the noun and the meaning of the adjective which comes from the noun.
... A word’s meaning is not determined by its origin, but rather by its usage.
I think it(aidios) was a superior word to use relative to the ambiguous aion & aionios, if God was a believer in endless punishment....begin
"if God was a believer in endless punishment....If Jude believed in endless punishment,..." logical fallacy. Argument from silence also trying to second guess God and Jude what they would have said under certain circumstances.
"if God was a believer in endless punishment....If Jude believed in endless punishment,..." logical fallacy. Argument from silence also trying to second guess God and Jude what they would have said under certain circumstances.
Romans 1:20In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26 Paul refers to God as “aionios,” therefore Paul evidently considers “aidios” and “aionios” to be interchangeable since he used them as synonyms.
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Irrelevant smokescreen. Does not address my post in any way.
Is this supposed to make sense? How does this address my post?
More of the same meaningless argumentation, without any support.
John Gill Rom 16:26 according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith; that is, it is by the express order and command of that God who is from everlasting to everlasting, that the mystery of the Gospel is made manifest by the preaching of the apostles being witnessed to by the law and prophets in all its doctrines; faith on Christ,..., Act_13:46; here is a clear proof that Christ is God, and that he is the everlasting God.
"....begin
A meaningless claim that something is literal and more honest. What has been demonstrated here over and over "literal" merely means it supports UR assumptions/presuppositions.
"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?"begin
One more time, one [1] anonymous tablet from the 3rd century does NOT prove eonian primarily meant a finite period. A library of ancient tablets or scrolls would be more definitive. In BDAG there are at least 35 ancient sources cited under "aionios." But we are supposed to take one anonymous tablet over all those sources?
A meaningless claim that something is literal and more honest. What has been demonstrated here over and over "literal" merely means it supports UR assumptions/presuppositions.
"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?"
One more time, one [1] anonymous tablet from the 3rd century does NOT prove eonian primarily meant a finite period.
A library of ancient tablets or scrolls would be more definitive. In BDAG there are at least 35 ancient sources cited under "aionios." But we are supposed to take one anonymous tablet over all those sources?
.....A 1000 years from now if someone were to read a book written by a hippy they might think that "square" only meant a person who is not very socially acceptable, that a "chick" only referred to a young lady, "cool" had nothing to do with temperature and "heavy" had nothing to do with weight.
Meaningless accusatory rhetoric Repeating all this nonsense over and over does not make it true. OTOH many of the so-called sources you quote from such as Larry Beauchamin have zero stated expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history....
What biased scholars who agreed with the Douay & KJV traditions of the dark ages "church" (of Inquisitions, Crusades, burning opposers to death with fire & their writings) have done is change the words of Scriptures to their own opinions, which is shameful. ...
Take your own advice."Add not to His words, lest He reason with thee, And thou hast been found false."(Prov.30:6)
This comment invalidates the rest of the copy/paste. Do you even know why?"After all, not only Walvoord, Buis, and Inge, but all intelligent students acknowledge that olam and aiõn sometimes refer to limited duration. ...
(1)No one suggested such a thing.
(2) You've provided no proof from BDAG in opposition to the source i gave.
(3) Most of BDAG's references you've never verified, so you have blind faith in BDAG.
I have faith in an accredited a languags resource which has been validated by many scholars. You have BDAG you could look up the cited references for yourself. Why have you deliberately refused to consult a source that you have in your possession and make all these false claims and accusations? What is your ulterior motive?(4) Why doesn't BDAG list the following dozens of "ancient soucres cited under aionios"? Did the author purposely omit them to weigh the evidence according to his biases? To sell books?
Considering that the following is the only ancient reference that has been provided in this discussion of the phrase "aionion God", & aionion therein is finite, the score stands at 1-0 until you can provide something to add to your nil total so far:begin
Have you ever actually seen this so-called lead tablet or a photo of it? How do you know it says what Deissman claims?
Meaningless accusatory rhetoric Repeating all this nonsense over and over does not make it true.
OTOH many of the so-called sources you quote from such as Larry Beauchamin have zero stated expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history.
This comment invalidates the rest of the copy/paste. Do you even know why?
I have faith in an accredited a languags resource which has been validated by many scholars.
You have BDAG you could look up the cited references for yourself. Why have you deliberately refused to consult a source that you have in your possession and make all these false claims and accusations? What is your ulterior motive?
Considering that the following is the only ancient reference that has been provided in this discussion of the phrase "aionion God", & aionion therein is finite, the score stands at 1-0 until you can provide something to add to your nil total so far:
"Adolph Deissman gives this account: "Upon a lead tablet found in the Necropolis at Adrumetum in the Roman province of Africa, near Carthage, the following inscription, belonging to the early third century, is scratched in Greek: 'I am adjuring Thee, the great God, the eonian, and more than eonian (epaionion) and almighty...' If by eonian, endless time were meant, then what could be more than endless time?"
Have you ever actually seen this so-called lead tablet or a photo of it? How do you know it says what Deissman claims?
My evidence. I have highlighted the sources the authors cited in blue. Since you have indicated you don't know what I am talking about.
αἰώνιος (ία ③ pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod S 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod S 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I b.c.] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248–50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109–28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12. κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod S 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2 (cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod S 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3;PsSol PsSol 3:12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11 (ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186–201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217–28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Repeatedly calling a person's argument names - "nonsense", "meaningless", etc - like calling a person names, does not address the argument, make it untrue or any less effective. It merely evades the issue & suggests to readers that you may not be able to address it, so lower yourself to ad hominem like remarks against it. It also may come across as rude, a rant & lacking in objectivity.begin
You failed to note that I was referring to repetitious copy/pastes which I have previously refuted. Was that deliberate? Get some new material, instead of posting the same copy/pastes over and over.
That's easy to say, but where is your list of these alleged "sources"?begin
You know who I was talking about. The difference is I am talking to you stating my opinion. Unlike you and Beauchamin nobody is quoting me as an authority on anything. If Beauchamin quotes an accredited scholar, quote the scholar and leave Beauchamin out of it. OBTW have you verified every "scholar" Beauchamin quoted as you demanded of me? Or do you just accept everything he says on blind faith as you accused me of with BDAG?
Like you, he has no "expertise in Biblical languages or Bible history", but that doesn't keep either of you from posting or compiling quotes of those who do. So pot-kettle as far as your remark on that is concerned.begin
Wrong! I am expressing my considered opinion in a discussion nobody is quoting me as an authority. Unless I am talking directly to Beauchamin or any other amateur you quote, I am not interested in their second hand opinion
Who? Irrelevant bloviation.As Tom Talbott said:
Who? Irrelevant bloviation. Unidentified quotes ignored and omitted.bob wilson said:
<ClemA>Do you want me to guess how your often illogically thinking brain got it wrong again?begin
This discussion is over. You, with zero formal education or expertise in Koine Greek, who probably could not parse a Greek verb if your life depended on it, have set yourself up as an expert, on one hand quoting anonymous online amateurs on the other hand criticizing and rejecting out-of-hand Bauer, Danker, Arndt and Gingrich [BDAG] one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available. BDAG has been peer reviewed by many Greek scholars for more than one hundred years. Do not expect any further responses I'm not wasting any more of my time.
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