What does “Free Will” mean?

[childeye 2]

Please notice that asking what free will means, and whether free will exists are two different questions that will foster confusion. Even because it would be pointless to ask what it means if it doesn't exist, and yet equally pointless to ask whether it exists not knowing what it means.

I will submit upfront, that in the moral/immoral context, the will of mankind must ultimately be subject to the knowledge and ignorance of God, as in both His Holy Character and it's effectual relation as a determiner of a persons moral/immoral will.

Please note that this dichotomy would clearly indicate that the only coherent meaning of a free will, would be one that is free from such an ignorance, effectively revealing that faith cannot apply to a corrupt image of God, while also acknowledging that no man can please God without faith.

To be clear, there is no free will in the mora/immorall context, if free will means the freedom to choose between right and wrong which ultimately are choices between lies and Truth, since that choice exists only in the circumstance of there being a deceiver.

 

[childeye 2]

Free will is the freedom to choose to do something that is against God's will. If you haven't looked into Molinism, then I suggest reading an article about it. However, our ideas of how free will and divine foreknowledge interact are not saying that this is how God must act, but rather it is just a way of speaking about it that makes sense to us. One analogy that I like is that it could be like a video game, where I can predict with perfect accuracy that every time that you play through it you will encounter certain plot points. However, in between those plot points, you have the free will to make any number of decisions such that no two times that you play through the game are exactly identical. So that could be a way that free will and divine foreknowledge interact.

A few questions for you: If freewill is freedom to choose to do something against God's will, then what's the difference between free will and sin?

And what about the carnal will as opposed to the spiritual will described in scripture? Is not the carnal mind pre-disposed to choose according to the carnal desire?

 

[Neogaia777]

Free will is the freedom to choose to do something that is against God's will. If you haven't looked into Molinism, then I suggest reading an article about it. However, our ideas of how free will and divine foreknowledge interact are not saying that this is how God must act, but rather it is just a way of speaking about it that makes sense to us. One analogy that I like is that it could be like a video game, where I can predict with perfect accuracy that every time that you play through it you will encounter certain plot points. However, in between those plot points, you have the free will to make any number of decisions such that no two times that you play through the game are exactly identical. So that could be a way that free will and divine foreknowledge interact.

Some say that if it is like that, that, not only is it a truly simulated reality, but also ties into other ideas like reincarnation (ancestors, previous lives), and the idea of a hell also...

Cause in a video game you have the main quests or goals or objectives or whatever and many other quests and many other things you can do or not do in this way, or in that way, ect, but, in general the main quest line, when it is gone or played through or is completed, you finished the game, or that game, and then some games will give you the option to start a new game with that game, or even go back with the character you have and do other things in that game that you may want to go back and complete or do, or... ? Now this is the kicker, you may get to put that particular game on the shelf for awhile, as it were, and start a whole new completely different game, with all kind of very new and unknown to you things in it, (or reality (world/universe/kingdom or system) or "reality" for our discussion and analogy here), one that you've never played (through) before and know absolutely nothing about, but is one of the newest and hottest, and coolest games out there, that always try to always "outdo", and are always trying to "awe" players choosing to play that (next, new) game, in the very best, newest and hottest (and next) and coolest ways possible, at that time, till the next one ect...

And the programs and programmers and game developers and designers, engineers, architects, ect, always try to design them all around your utmost pleasure and delight, and awe-ness, and newest coolness, and newest and hottest and coolest, most newest mind-blowing ways possible at that time...

And if you apply all of "that", to "this", basically, the choices I just mentioned may be the only real true choices we really have, so to speak, if we have them at all, that is...

Now how would we get move on and play the newest hottest game so to speak, when were done with this one, cause that is my question? and then also, another would be also, if we have or do have any choice in that at all either...?

God Bless!

 

[childeye 2]

God has decided to create us as totally autonomous beings with free choice. The other option is to create a race of programmable robots.

If wisdom could be taught to a fool, is he not programmable?

God has given us total freedom to choose anything we want to do. But He has shown the consequences of the choices we make. We are allowed to choose our way, as long as we are prepared to accept the consequences of it.

First off, is there even a such thing as wanting whatever you want to want? I mean to say that I do not believe that God created us in a state of random wants or desires. Where do wants come from? Sometimes they are the product of reasoning, either sound or unsound, and sometimes they are impulsive.

Secondly, it seems to me that the expected consequences of any action would be a precursor to whether you want to do something or not want to. Even so, the expected consequences could change in desirability according to circumstances. For example, if I believed God was a self serving tyrant who used fear and terror to ensure loyalty, would I really want to live forever , or would I prefer death?

And finally it would be helpful to try and avoid revolving and evolving meanings of free will so as to conflate freedom of action with freedom to want whatever we want to want.

 

[childeye 2]

Wow a lot of introspection here. Well, God made man in his image. He can think, and take those thoughts and act upon them as actions in order to create, good or bad. That is the free will. We can choose to obey Him and His Word or rebel and decide we want to be god and do our own thing, with consequences. God is Soverign. To me that is HE IS NOT A GOD... HE IS THE CREATOR. I always thought in the original Hebrew it says CREATOR. A creator has no origin of being... he always was. We cannot wrap our head around that cause we throughout history always made a big deal out of gods, hence idol worship. But He is the Heavenly Father, The Creator. I have found when i look at him as my Creator, not a god of an origin it shows me how holy He is. He did not make us to be programmed to obey him because we would of been robots and unable to give real worship, from the heart. I hope this helps some. ~ Blessings

I would like to respectfully point out, that any true and sincere worship would have to be drawn out by the object of worship, and would therefore not be voluntary as in according to one's own prerogative. If a person had a free will defined as able to choose to Love God or not, then they do not know Him.

Therefore if you're meaning to say that we are all here to learn Who God is and why He is trustworthy, I would agree. But such ignorance or blindness would not constitute a free will to choose. Since it's not credible that God can be both trustworthy and not trustworthy, such a free will would only exist in a place of equivocation.

 

[he-man]

As a spinoff from my last thread I found lots of differing ideas with “free will” and a need to ask some more questions:

Does God have both the power and knowledge to create a being with the ability to make one truly autonomous free will choice and if not why not?

Would God’s foreknowledge and/or knowing everything keep a being from making a truly autonomous free will choice?

Would giving a being the ability to make a truly autonomous free will choice reduce or even eliminate God’s Sovereignty?

God can certainly keep any being from making a choice, so does allowing the being to make the choice mean God is not “controlling” or “over” the universe?

With enough environmental and biological information, it can be determent which ice-cream you will chose, so is that really a free will choice?

If God created a being with the very limited autonomous free will ability to make just one choice, yet that being never came close to reaching the age to ever making that autonomous free will choice, would God still know the exact without a doubt selection the being would have made had if it lived long enough?

1.ελεύθερη βούληση free will 1.the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy · spontaneity · freedom · liberty · voluntarily · willingly · readily · freely · spontaneously · without reluctance · without being forced · without being asked · without being encouraged · of one's own accord · of one's own volition · of one's own choosing · by one's own preference

Merriam-Webster Logo SINCE 1828 freewill adjective
Definition of freewill (Entry 1 of 2) : voluntary, spontaneous free will noun
Definition of free will (Entry 2 of 2) 1 : voluntary choice or decision
2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

First Known Use of freewill 1535, in the meaning defined above Noun 13th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1
The first known use of freewill was in the 13th century

English Language Learners Definition of free will : the ability to choose how to act: the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God

Spanish Translation of FREEWILL : de propia voluntad

 

[Neogaia777]

I have to apologize as I'm trying to type and be on here ''one-handed" right now... my other arm, elbow, left forearm, I had to have emergency surgeries on twice last week and spent a week in hospital after a pretty bad biking accident, and while I am lucky that it was only my left arm and hand only for the most part, cause it could have been much worse, I just got back home and have my whole left arm in a cast, after breaking it in three places, and completely fracturing and shattering some bones in that arm that poked out and bled a lot, and them having to do some emergency reconstructive surgery on it, ect, I am now home with in a cast, typing with one hand, or trying to anyway, but just don't know how much i will do or be able to do as I'm in a lot of pain and taking some pretty strong pain meds waiting for my arm and left hand to heal up enough to use it/them again, and they cannot tell me exactly how long that will be yet, but the bones have to fuse to the new parts (screws and metal pins and brackets, joints, ect) they put in, which can take some time...

He talked about as little a six to as long as up to 12 weeks ect, might be physical therapy involved, ect...

anyway, thought I'd just explain that up front...

anyway, if you do not see me one here very much you'll know why, k...? (this is only day 3 so far)

Having only one hand and arm to use (for anything and everything all by yourself all the time), kind of bites, to say the least...

God Bless!

 

[messianist]

It means Elohim can do as he pleases.

 

[Neogaia777]

It means Elohim can do as he pleases.

What is it that He does with this concept of "our free will" and also "doing what he pleases" though...? That is the question I guess...?

God Bless!

 

[ChristianGirl_96]

Free will refers to the ability to do things independent of God. For example you may decide to leave the church for a while as you are struggling with your faith. Or maybe you deliberately want to smoke even if you know you should abstain.
I hope that answers your question. Try not to surrender your soul to the Devil. Instead resist the temptation to do something terrible. Go to Church often and pray.

 

[Lost4words]

Free will means being able to ditch my collar and lead and run wild in the park! No cares what so ever!

 

[childeye 2]

2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention


English Language Learners Definition of free will : the ability to choose how to act: the ability to make choices that are not controlled by fate or God

I find these definitions to be the more recognized meaning of the term. However, that does not mean free will exists.

First and foremost, the discussion should be focused on the moral/immoral implications. For example, in recognition that God is Spirit, if the Word of God is the Light in our souls, then these definitions could imply that there is no God.

Or, they could mean that since we do sin we should therefore assume that we can deny the Word of God within us according to our own discretion. However this meaning is based on a presumption that the will is free simply because it sins. This asserts that sin is an ability rather than a disability. It does not express any consideration that every sin must first be preceded by a lie posing as the truth and thereby corrupting the will by convincing a person to oppose their own self. Without recognizing a lie present before every sinful act, sin is not acknowledged as a master with his own agenda that is contrary to our own best interests.

 

[childeye 2]

Free will refers to the ability to do things independent of God. For example you may decide to leave the church for a while as you are struggling with your faith. Or maybe you deliberately want to smoke even if you know you should abstain.
I hope that answers your question. Try not to surrender your soul to the Devil. Instead resist the temptation to do something terrible. Go to Church often and pray.

Respectfully, I do not believe anyone can do any good independent of God. When Jesus resisted temptation, he surmised that we shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. When the prodigal son decided to return, he had recognized that even the servants ate well in his Father's house.

 

[Neogaia777]

I have to apologize as I'm trying to type and be on here ''one-handed" right now... my other arm, elbow, left forearm, I had to have emergency surgeries on twice last week and spent a week in hospital after a pretty bad biking accident, and while I am lucky that it was only my left arm and hand only for the most part, cause it could have been much worse, I just got back home and have my whole left arm in a cast, after breaking it in three places, and completely fracturing and shattering some bones in that arm that poked out and bled a lot, and them having to do some emergency reconstructive surgery on it, ect, I am now home with in a cast, typing with one hand, or trying to anyway, but just don't know how much i will do or be able to do as I'm in a lot of pain and taking some pretty strong pain meds waiting for my arm and left hand to heal up enough to use it/them again, and they cannot tell me exactly how long that will be yet, but the bones have to fuse to the new parts (screws and metal pins and brackets, joints, ect) they put in, which can take some time...

He talked about as little a six to as long as up to 12 weeks ect, might be physical therapy involved, ect...

anyway, thought I'd just explain that up front...

anyway, if you do not see me one here very much you'll know why, k...? (this is only day 3 so far)

Having only one hand and arm to use (for anything and everything all by yourself all the time), kind of bites, to say the least...

God Bless!

2 days ago, when I got back in my apartment, and sat down at my table, my one arm in a cast and sling, i recalled having dejavu' at a time about 6 months ago, knowing I had one, but didn't remember what it was that i was supposed to remember or recall about it (and Him) "at the time", at all, and had let it go back then... well, almost as soon as i got back and sat down, I had it again... and "this time" i remembered or it was brought to my attention what it was, and i remembered it... and it was simply me sitting at my table, but with a cast on my left arm in a sling, and when i recalled "that", and "this time" just two days ago, well...?

Not the first time it has happened, and probably won't be the last, and it definitely wasn't the only kind of thing from God that happened to or with me, or that God was trying show me about Himself or God...

Anyway, what does that or any of this mean...? cause the only word i heard about it was simply "see...?"

What I dismissed not having any meaning to me earlier or at the time, or just didn't remember certain details to or about (like the injured arm) now all of the sudden became very relevant to me now, but not back then, but only now, because I'm there now or right now...

And the only word was in the form of a question, was just "See...?"

God Bless!

 

[childeye 2]

It means Elohim can do as he pleases.

Respectfully Elohim is a plural. What you are saying is God cannot sin, lie, cheat, etc..

 

[Neogaia777]

2 days ago, when I got back in my apartment, and sat down at my table, my one arm in a cast and sling, i recalled having dejavu' at a time about 6 months ago, knowing I had one, but didn't remember what it was that i was supposed to remember or recall about it (and Him) "at the time", at all, and had let it go back then... well, almost as soon as i got back and sat down, I had it again... and "this time" i remembered or it was brought to my attention what it was, and i remembered it... and it was simply me sitting at my table, but with a cast on my left arm in a sling, and when i recalled "that", and "this time" just two days ago, well...?

Not the first time it has happened, and probably won't be the last, and it definitely wasn't the only kind of thing from God that happened to or with me, or that God was trying show me about Himself or God...

Anyway, what does that or any of this mean...? cause the only word i heard about it was simply "see...?"

What I dismissed not having any meaning to me earlier or at the time, or just didn't remember certain details to or about (like the injured arm) now all of the sudden became very relevant to me now, but not back then, but only now, because I'm there now or right now...

And the only word was in the form of a question, was just "See...?"

God Bless!

But what i am supposed to see about is very many different things on so very many different levels, that, well...?

what do you think and or see about it or that...?

God Bless!

 

[Radagast]

The choice you make of ice-cream is not important or needing autonomous free will to fulfill your objective, but very limited "libertarian" free will could be provided by God to allow you to make the very few free will choices you need to make.
Does God not have the power to allow such free will choices?

I'm not sure what you mean by "autonomous free will."

 

[childeye 2]

2 days ago, when I got back in my apartment, and sat down at my table, my one arm in a cast and sling, i recalled having dejavu' at a time about 6 months ago, knowing I had one, but didn't remember what it was that i was supposed to remember or recall about it (and Him) "at the time", at all, and had let it go back then... well, almost as soon as i got back and sat down, I had it again... and "this time" i remembered or it was brought to my attention what it was, and i remembered it... and it was simply me sitting at my table, but with a cast on my left arm in a sling, and when i recalled "that", and "this time" just two days ago, well...?

Not the first time it has happened, and probably won't be the last, and it definitely wasn't the only kind of thing from God that happened to or with me, or that God was trying show me about Himself or God...

Anyway, what does that or any of this mean...? cause the only word i heard about it was simply "see...?"

What I dismissed not having any meaning to me earlier or at the time, or just didn't remember certain details to or about (like the injured arm) now all of the sudden became very relevant to me now, but not back then, but only now, because I'm there now or right now...

And the only word was in the form of a question, was just "See...?"

God Bless!

I've experienced dejavu several times in my life.

 

[Radagast]

Nothing has to be fixed unless God wants to fix something, even though God foresees.

No, if God foresees that I will eat scrambled eggs for breakfast next Friday, then it is fixed that I will eat scrambled eggs for breakfast next Friday -- I am unable to choose anything else. In other words, I do not have free will of the libertarian kind.

I still have compatibilist free will: I choose eggs because that's what I want to do.

 

[Neogaia777]

really, i get dejavu' a lot now or lately, and never remember any of the details that are supposed to truly matter, except it is only revealed to me at the time that it comes to pass, that that detail "was" "in there" you know" (He would say)...

God Bless!