What Do You Think of the Catholic Teaching about Mary?

[patricius79]

See what laternonjuror posted, which is a repost of what I posted (thank you, laternonjuror, for your aid). That is why your reply is a Straw Man.

Can you explain this more? I don't follow. I simply asked if Adam and Eve were fully human before the Fall. You said that that question was a straw man, right?

 

[patricius79]

I love the virgin birth story as I love all of scriptures.

Luk_1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

This is what I know and understand and believe. There it is. However, I have no mind for any of the spin put on it by catholic denomination, nor any man's redigestion of making it mean more than it says, such as "the mother of God". It means much more than that. It is all of us as the Bride bringing forth Christ in us. We've been sown with the incorruptible seed in our Marriage to Christ. We now bring forth the Man Child who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron. You know the scriptures. It has nothing to do with making Mary the mother of God. No respect, but that is not scriptural in the least. So I believe scripture, not man. The reason is this;

(Rom 3:4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I know what the Bible says and doesn't say and so I am justified by believing and stating only what is written. Thank you for your question.




Luk_1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

I agree with you as far as what the Scriptures say. They do teach that Mary conceived Jesus, and that Jesus is Lord and God (Jn 20:28).

The Scriptures say to hold fast to both the written and oral traditions (2 Thes 2:15). The passage you quote about Mary and Jesus being "blessed" does suggest what the oral Word of God (2 Tim 1:13-14, Acts 8:14) say about Mary's role as the sinless New Eve.

 

[PaladinValer]

Can you explain this more? I don't follow. I simply asked if Adam and Eve were fully human before the Fall. You said that that question was a straw man, right?

It is a Straw Man because St. Mary was after them. Thus to compare her to them as if she was a contemporary is illogical...and also quite disrespectful to her, since they are guilty of original sin and she is not.

 

[patricius79]

It is a Straw Man because St. Mary was after them. Thus to compare her to them as if she was a contemporary is illogical...and also quite disrespectful to her, since they are guilty of original sin and she is not.

I would think that would make it more probable that the Mother of God was free of Original Sin, if even Adam and Eve were without Original Sin before their Fall.

 

[Biblicist]

This is just baloney. Now are there Catholics who ignorantly and sinfully place Mary higher than her son? Unfortunately yes. But not because of Church teaching. Church teaching is very clear. Jesus is GOD. Mary is a creation.

Ahhh...the Roman Catholic "escape card"! How often have we heard of the supposed "official" view when we now full well that Rome quietly sanctions almost any form of behaviour if they deem it to be placating its membership.

I just came across an article in charisma magazine regarding some supposed apparitions of Mary which Rome has been considering for 34 years ( a mere 34 years!). Even though they have apparently stated "dioceses should not organize official pilgrimages to the town" the article then goes on to say "But many parish groups are among the more than a million visitors a year to the site". Sadly we hear this type of this occurring time and time again.

 

[patricius79]

Ahhh...the Roman Catholic "escape card"! How often have we heard of the supposed "official" view when we now full well that Rome quietly sanctions almost any form of behaviour if they deem it to be placating its membership.

I just came across an article in charisma magazine regarding some supposed apparitions of Mary which Rome has been considering for 34 years ( a mere 34 years!). Even though they have apparently stated "dioceses should not organize official pilgrimages to the town" the article then goes on to say "But many parish groups are among the more than a million visitors a year to the site". Sadly we hear this type of this occurring time and time again.

What do you think of the Catholic teachings that Mary is the highest of all creatures, the Mother of God, and the Mediatrix of all Graces?

 

[patricius79]

We also have clear evidence that God wants all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. This is not speculation, but a biblical statement. Do you believe in the universal salvation of all mankind because God wants it to be so? If not, then why do speculate about what God might have possibly wanted?

We know for a fact that God wanted Mary to be perfect because it is the Word of God.

 

[Biblicist]

What do you think of the Catholic teachings that Mary is the highest of all creatures, the Mother of God, and the Mediatrix of all Graces?

Hmmm...I would say that there would be a few forum rules that probably limit my reply; suffice to say, the Mariolatry doctrines probably belong more to Buddhism than they do with Christianity.

I suppose if you can call Mary the "mother of God", then as Jesus had a few brothers then maybe we blokes should be praying to one of the brothers of God!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hmmm...I would say that there would be a few forum rules that probably limit my reply; suffice to say, the Mariolatry doctrines probably belong more to Buddhism than they do with Christianity.

I suppose if you can call Mary the "mother of God", then as Jesus had a few brothers then maybe we blokes should be praying to one of the brothers of God!

Actually, that can be taken two possible ways. There are those who are quite squeamish about the probability that Jesus actually had physical brothers (and sisters). However, Jesus made it also quite clear that all who do the will of God are His mother, brothers, and sisters. Thus, if one is inclined to pray to the Mother of God, one can pray to a very large number of Christian ladies.

 

[Biblicist]

Actually, that can be taken two possible ways. There are those who are quite squeamish about the probability that Jesus actually had physical brothers (and sisters). However, Jesus made it also quite clear that all who do the will of God are His mother, brothers, and sisters. Thus, if one is inclined to pray to the Mother of God, one can pray to a very large number of Christian ladies.

As for praying to anyone other than the Father, then I would say that praying to a dead saint (who is the ground until the Resurrection) amounts to nothing less than necromancy.

 

[bbbbbbb]

As for praying to anyone other than the Father, then I would say that praying to a dead saint (who is the ground until the Resurrection) amounts to nothing less than necromancy.

Indeed. It is a practice that I have struggled to understand, much less appreciate, over many years. I have been surprised and delighted to find my prayers to God through His Son answered in remarkable ways. The result is that I have found no motivation to pray to anyone else.

 

[patricius79]

Hmmm...I would say that there would be a few forum rules that probably limit my reply; suffice to say, the Mariolatry doctrines probably belong more to Buddhism than they do with Christianity.

I suppose if you can call Mary the "mother of God", then as Jesus had a few brothers then maybe we blokes should be praying to one of the brothers of God!

So you don't agree that Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces?

 

[Biblicist]

Indeed. It is a practice that I have struggled to understand, much less appreciate, over many years. I have been surprised and delighted to find my prayers to God through His Son answered in remarkable ways. The result is that I have found no motivation to pray to anyone else.

As some feel inclined to pray to Buddha, Mohammad and even Elvis, I suppose we should not be surprised to see poor Mary being thrown into the mix.

Even though I was being obviously flippant with my remark that as Jesus had a number of half siblings, when we consider that the limited amount of information that we have about Mary shows that Jesus seemed to be tolerant of her at best, and where she also appears to be antagonistic toward him once he started his earthly ministry; as James (his half-brother) became the first president of the Council of Jerusalem, then maybe Roman Catholics would be better off praying to the half-brother of Jesus, after all, the Church decided to place him in a position of authority above even that of Peter.

As I am among many millions who can pray in the Spirit (tongues), where the Holy Spirit intercedes on my behalf directly to the Father and to the Father alone, I would have to ask, why doesn’t the Holy Spirit pray to Mary as well?

 

[Biblicist]

So you don't agree that Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces?

I would be more inclined to think that Elvis would be a better candidate.

As the thread started with " What Do You Think..." this thankfully allows me (with some limitations) to say what I think. As for the whole topic of Mariolatry, I would say that it has nothing to do with Theology at all where it stands not only against the entirety of the Scriptures but is also an insult to the sacrifice that Jesus made on our behalf and for that matter to poor Mary herself.

 

[patricius79]

I would be more inclined to think that Elvis would be a better candidate.

As the thread started with " What Do You Think..." this thankfully allows me (with some limitations) to say what I think. As for the whole topic of Mariolatry, I would say that it has nothing to do with Theology at all where it stands not only against the entirety of the Scriptures but is also an insult to the sacrifice that Jesus made on our behalf and for that matter to poor Mary herself.

Would you agree that Jesus, our salvation, entered the world through Mary?

 

[Biblicist]

Would you agree that Jesus, our salvation, entered the world through Mary?

No, Jesus came to earth through the agency of the Holy Spirit! Mary was simply the birth agent and nothing else.

 

[fatherjimparker]

At this risk of seeming to be disrespectiful to the views of others, all I can say is that as most Roman Catholic teaching regarding Mary is so far outside of theological norms, that it can be sadly very hard to describe.

Whose "theological norms"?

 

[patricius79]

No, Jesus came to earth through the agency of the Holy Spirit! Mary was simply the birth agent and nothing else.

But you would agree that Mary conceived Jesus, the Savior and our God?

 

[Biblicist]

Whose "theological norms"?

Let's see, for a concise answer, I would say almost any theological model that does not include Mariolotry.

 

[Biblicist]

But you would agree that Mary conceived Jesus, the Savior and our God?

As the half-siblings of Jesus were also conceived through Mary, does this make them demi-gods?