What Do You Think of the Catholic Teaching about Mary?

[patricius79]

I don't plan on starting another long debate because the conversation has been over for while now, but what you're saying pretty much puts Mary on the same level as God and that's idolatry.

I think that God doesn't need finite beings like the Mother of Jesus to sin in order to be Uniquely and Infinitely Holy and Good.

 

[DTate98]

I think that God doesn't need finite beings like the Mother of Jesus to sin in order to be Uniquely and Infinitely Holy and Good.

I think that God doesn't need finite beings like the Mother of Jesus to sin in order to be Uniquely and Infinitely Holy and Good.

I don't understand at all what you're trying to say.

 

[Radrook]

I believe she was blessed by being given the privilege to birth and raise Jesus.
Anything beyond that would need to have a scriptural justification.

 

[justcoolforyou]

I believe she was blessed by being given the privilege to birth and raise Jesus.
Anything beyond that would need to have a scriptural justification.

Everything beyond does have strong biblical foreshadowing...

 

[justcoolforyou]

At this risk of seeming to be disrespectiful to the views of others, all I can say is that as most Roman Catholic teaching regarding Mary is so far outside of theological norms, that it can be sadly very hard to describe.

No so... if that was the case then all the typology of Christ would be wrong too... all of Mariology is base in biblical typology... old testament reveals the new testament. .. everything talk about mary is found in all the types of her in the old testament, type of eve, virgin daughter of zion, ewe lamb, miraculous births, painless birth isa. 66,ark of the covenant. ..

 

[justcoolforyou]

And it is a HUGE JUMP from Scripture to the "Mary" created by the Catholic Church. She recognized God as her Savior, just like any human being, and she would be the first one to thoroughly reject the false doctrine of Mary perpetrated by Rome (and to some degree by the Orthodox churches where the concept of Theotokos came into existence). Mary is the mother of Jesus, but NOT the Mother of God (which means the Godhead, or at least in the NT God the Father).

Mary -- in Catholic theology and practice -- has replaced Christ, which means that there is something seriously wrong with this Catholic teaching. I'll get a lot of denials, but the facts will bear this out.

It means God the Son. It has never meant mother of the Trinity...yet a reality of jesus that is never pointed out is that in Jesus you also find the whole lord , father and holy spirit... for he is the father and the father in him... mary mother of God should be understood in her relationship to the trinity; daughter of the father , bride of the Holy spirit and mother of the son ..

 

[justcoolforyou]

And it is a HUGE JUMP from Scripture to the "Mary" created by the Catholic Church. She recognized God as her Savior, just like any human being, and she would be the first one to thoroughly reject the false doctrine of Mary perpetrated by Rome (and to some degree by the Orthodox churches where the concept of Theotokos came into existence). Mary is the mother of Jesus, but NOT the Mother of God (which means the Godhead, or at least in the NT God the Father).

Mary -- in Catholic theology and practice -- has replaced Christ, which means that there is something seriously wrong with this Catholic teaching. I'll get a lot of denials, but the facts will bear this out.

On a personal note going of topic, after studying Mariology and giving myself to Jesus by in trusting myself to the Immaculate heart of mary. My spiritual relationship with Jesus has reached level i didn't think possible. In my spirit she always echos in my heart do whatever he tells you... i don't worship Mary but i do worship that part of Mary that because the Christ who died for me.

 

[Radrook]

Everything beyond does have strong biblical foreshadowing...

I was referring to scriptural support for the effusive veneration of Mary.
So what is the scriptural support for the effusive veneration of Mary?
True as Paul reminds us in Hebrews there are typical representations of many things in the OT.

The ark of the Covenant, the temple with its Most Holy along with the high priest entering it represented Jesus and his entering heaven with the value of the Ransom sacrifice offered on our behalf.

Melchizedek was a prophetic figure of the Christ.

Abraham's sacrifice of Issac represented how God would offer his only begotten Son and resurrect him

Assuming that Mary was also foreshadowed, what in those types, in your opinion, indicates that we should intensely venerate her? Certainly not Eve since she sinned. It would seem that itself should disqualify Eve from prophetically typifying Mary since Mary is considered without sin.


BTW

Excerpt:

Roman Catholic Mariology

The earliest recorded prayer to Mary, the sub tuum praesidium, is dated in its earliest form to around the year 250.

In Egypt the veneration of Mary had started in the 3rd century and the term Theotokos was used by Church Father Origen.

In the 5th century, the Third Ecumenical Council in Ephesus declared Mary as Theotokos (God-bearer).[54] Churches dedicated to Mary were constructed across the Christian world, among the most famous being Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome.

After the 5th century, the celebration of the Assumption of Mary began to spread across the Christian world.

The Middle Ages saw growth and development for Mariology and prayers to Mary such as the Ave Maria, and chants such as Ave Maris Stella and the Salve Regina emerged and became staples of monastic plainsong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Mariology

So it took 500 years for the teaching of Mary to START to become popular. Which means that first century Christians knew absolutely nothing of it and would have considered it heresy. Which explains why not one of those biblical NT writers mentions it!

 

[justcoolforyou]

I was referring to scriptural support for the effusive veneration of Mary.
So what is the scriptural support for the effusive veneration of Mary?
True as Paul reminds us in Hebrews there are typical representations of many things in the OT.

The ark of the Covenant, the temple with its Most Holy along with the high priest entering it represented Jesus and his entering heaven with the value of the Ransom sacrifice offered on our behalf.

Melchizedek was a prophetic figure of the Christ.

Abraham's sacrifice of Issac represented how God would offer his only begotten Son and resurrect him

Assuming that Mary was also foreshadowed, what in those types, in your opinion, indicates that we should intensely venerate her? Certainly not Eve since she sinned. It would seem that itself should disqualify Eve from prophetically typifying Mary since Mary is considered without sin.


BTW

Excerpt:



So it took 500 years for the teaching of Mary to START to become popular. Which means that first century Christians knew absolutely nothing of it and would have considered it heresy. Which explains why not one of those biblical NT writers mentions it!

You are aware that every type of jesus from adam to Moses etc are all sinner. Your logic does not follow on your comment of evebeing a type of mary...

Here is a quick video... on the biblical types of Mary

 

[Radrook]

You are aware that every type of jesus from adam to Moses etc are all sinner. Your logic does not follow on your comment of evebeing a type of mary...

Here is a quick video... on the biblical types of Mary

Thanks for the link to the fascinating video.
I also found this website which explains the concept as well.
http://www.stpeterslist.com/682/6-biblical-reasons-mary-is-the-new-eve/

 

[justcoolforyou]

Thanks for the link to the fascinating video.
I also found this website which explains the concept as well.
http://www.stpeterslist.com/682/6-biblical-reasons-mary-is-the-new-eve/

Great article!

 

[seayhere]

Hi patricius,

What do I believe about Mary? That she was a young woman growing up in Israel who was betrothed to a young man named Joseph. That she was like most other young women of her day, although likely more mindful of God and His ways than many others like her. She was likely fairly devout in her love and understanding and adoration to/of God. She was chosen by God to be the woman through whom His Son would be delivered to the world. She died as a sinner like all of us, but with the hope and promise of eternal life through the work of her son. She was absolutely blessed of God to have been given such an honor.

As far as the descriptors that you have used for Mary, I am not much in agreement. However, I allow that each is free to their own understanding.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I just finished a study on Mary and it was quite interesting. I never though about the line in Luke 1:43 where Elizabeth says, whence is it to me that the mother of my Lord should come to visit me. Here's what I didn't pay attention to in that line. 1st, it was pointed out that she was filled with the Holy Spirit, so the Holy Spirit would have been speaking through her and 2nd she called Mary the mother of my Lord. She couldn't have meant an earthly authority because Jesus didn't take authority while he was on earth, so she could only mean Mary the mother of our Lord (God). The other thing that was pointed out in Luke was when the Angel Gabriel came down and told her she was going to have a son, Gabriel didn't say, you are pregnant. Mary was betrothed to Joseph and she might have answered well sure after we are married I will have a son. She said, "I know not a man, how can this be." The way she answers somewhat supports the fact that she wasn't going to have relations and had taken a vow of Chastity. The most interesting thing, I learned in this study was that Mary had free will and she said, " I am a handmade of the Lord, Let it be done to me according to your word. This means, Mary said yes and she could have said no, if she wanted to. I have come to the conclusion that the Ark of the Covenant had to be so special for God to be there, of course Mary had to be special. They both carried the same things on the inside of them. The Word of God, The High Priests Staff/The High Priest himself, and The Bread of Life. It was a really neat study and I learned a lot about Mary that I didn't know before. At any rate, I thought it was exciting and wanted to fill you in about what I learned.