What do you think of Ian Paisley

[Hix]

Big Ian is often misrepresented, hes a pretty good guy though can be harsh in his message. Not to forget being quite a trouble maker, such as accusing the Pope of being the anti-christ. But on a political level I support the DUP so I have to give my support to Ian the leader, they arent worth much but they are the only party who are willing to do something to stop terror (SF/IRA).

I challenge those who speak bad about him to come live here in Northern Ireland and see EXACTLY what its like.

 

[Tangnefedd]

Accusing the Pope of being the anti-Christ is inflamatory language and total rubbish! As for the DUP stopping the terror, they are contributing to it, by their attitude!

 

[Hix]

Your arguement would be more credible if you lived here in Northern Ireland like I do. You obviously know very little of the political agenda here, the DUP for example have their latest plan "devolution now" which is looking towards a stable government provided proven terrorists such as SF/IRA choose government over guns.

And while I dont agree that the Pope is the anti-christ, its his opinion and hes entitled to it.
So quick to judge, you are
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[oworm]

Like i said..........Im no fan of IP. But after all is said and done i can see this thread rapidly falling into a slanging match and eventually maybe even being closed. discussing people like IP and other politicians or religious leaders is always going to bring out the worst in people and cause ruptions. This discussion will just keep going round and round in circles till either a mod shuts it down or someone leaves CF because they feel offended at others views.

 

[Tangnefedd]

I have no more to say on the subject!

 

[Suzannah]

Your arguement would be more credible if you lived here in Northern Ireland like I do. You obviously know very little of the political agenda here, the DUP for example have their latest plan "devolution now" which is looking towards a stable government provided proven terrorists such as SF/IRA choose government over guns.

And while I dont agree that the Pope is the anti-christ, its his opinion and hes entitled to it.
So quick to judge, you are
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

Hallo Hix. I'm from there. It's my home. And I disagree completely, but in the interests of keeping the peace at CF, I won't debate you on this issue. I do have a right to an opinion and I've already voiced it. You voiced yours. Let us move on....

 

[Setanta]

The recent troubles in Ireland were started by his mob inciting the protestants to victimise the Catholics. It is forgotten that the British troops originally went into Northern Ireland in the 60s to protect the Catholics from the extreme protestant paramilitaries. The Provos got a lot of support as they were seen to be on the side of the Catholics.

This is quite a mis-informed generalisation. The recent Troubles in NORTHERN Ireland (not the Republic of Ireland) was not started by Ian Paisley or his "mob." Never forget that the Civil Rights Movement in Northern Ireland was started by both Protestants and Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland. Their initial goal was to give rights to the Gypsies (Politically Correct terminology: Travellers) of Northern Ireland.

NICRA (Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association) was infiltrated by militant Republicans and members of the IRA, who had their own agenda. Protestants weren't comfortable with the direction in which NICRA was moving, and the fact that the trouble-makers started to out-number the peaceful members on the demonstrations and marches, and so most left the organisation.

Paisley indeed has a lot to answer for, considering the trouble he stirred up at the likes of Burntullet. But he is by no means the originator of the Troubles.

By the way - British troops were already in Northern Ireland, as Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The overwhelmed police force, the RUC, were reinforced by army personnel to help contain the rioting. And yes - to protect the rioting Roman Catholic population from the reaction of the much larger surrounding Protestant areas in Belfast.

The soldiers, mostly from Scotland and England, were welcomed by the law-abiding Roman Catholic community and on the Falls Road they were offered tea and buns by the locals. This all changed after the IRA started targetting and killing our soldiers.

Ironic, don't you think?

 

[Setanta]

it is a shame that someone who expresses his faith so veermently should have so little compassion/ respect for other peoples points of view

there is nothing more to be said

Really? Ian Paisley is respected by his constituents, no matter what their religious or political backgrounds, because of how hard he works for everyone.

"[...]he attracts a large number of catholic votes in his Westminster constituency (famously once attracting all the votes from an entirely catholic off-shore island that is part of his consituency), where he has a reputation as a hardworking MP who will help or defend anyone whatever his or her religious beliefs. Though fiercely anti the Republic of Ireland, he has religious followers there and as a religious leader with southern followers has meet the Irish Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern in Irish Government Buildings in Dublin. From the 1960s, one of his main rivals was civil rights leader and second leader of the nationalist SDLP, John Hume. Though their parties are so often at loggerheads, Hume and Paisley are regarded as an excellent team working jointly on behalf of Northern Ireland in the European Parliament and on occasion in the House of Commons. Indeed the complexity of their relationship was demonstrated when it was discovered that Hume had visited Paisley's home to dine with Ian and his wife Eileen on Boxing Dayone year in the 1990s. When Hume resigned the leadership of the SDLP, Paisley gave very warm praise of "John" and very accurate estimation of how difficult the SDLP would find it to fill the void left by the departing leader. (Some suggested that the comments by Paisley were given because he thought he was just chatting to journalists and that the TV cameras weren't on. The sight of a warm, witty quiet Paisley at that moment contrasted with the usual image of the forceful, loud agressive Paisley Northern Irish people on all sides were used to seeing!) In one particular irony, having spent most of his career, as he himself joking admitted once, saying 'No', Paisley assumed the chairmanship of the Agriculture committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly created by the Belfast Agreement, where he was universally praised (even by Sinn Féin members) as an effective, co-ordinating chairperson who treated all committee members with respect and had a particularly good working relationship with the Minister for Agriculture, the SDLP's Brid Rogers.​

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Now in his mid 70s, the Rev. Dr. Ian Paisley, MLA, MP, MEP is in physically poor health, having aged noticeably, and has been gradually lowering his political profile. Instead he had been devoting much of his time to working with his church on the 'missions' in Africa, where he draws large crowds of converts. Paisley has been reported to be a longterm sufferer from depression, which has also removed him from the public arena on occasions. His son, Kyle, is expected to take over as Moderator of the Free Presbyterian Church. His deputy leader of the DUP, Peter Robinson has served as a Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive, where he has earned a large reputation, and is seen as a possible First Minister of Northern Ireland in the next Northern Executive, should the DUP win more seats than the UUP in the Northern Ireland Assembly elections, due on 29 May 2003 ​

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[...] daughter Rhonda, who served as a member of Belfast City Council but has since left politics. (She once presented a TV chat show on the Republic's Radio Telifis Eireann, Saturday Live where one of her guests was her father Ian, who charmed TV viewers with his personability and good humour, in utter contrast to the normal 'Ian Paisley' seen on news bulletins.)"​

(Courtesy Brainy Encyclopedia)

Certainly the man is intolerant of the Roman Catholic Church, and similarly of Roman Catholic institutions such as the Republic of Ireland and Sinn Féin/IRA. But intolerant of Catholics themselves? I'm not so sure.

 

[Setanta]

Additionally, he is not simply "avoiding something he finds evil". He is actively and loudly promoting violence toward Catholics and all others who do not share his extreme theological and political views.

You missed the point Doc. He is not avoiding anything. He is in fact, going out of his way to come into violent contact with Catholicism. You seem not to want to face that fact.

Well, since no one else will say it outright, I will.
He is a t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-t. He supports terror, incites terror and encourages terror.

I've not heard him do this. Would you care to present some proof?

Are you aware that Protestants who do not toe his "party line" (such as myself) are in as much danger from his followers as Catholics? Are you aware that Protestants who befriend Catholics sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with their houses on fire or their children beaten to pulps on the way home from school?

People that do this are militant loyalists - not Paisley himself.

And remember that Roman Catholics who have started any kind of relationship with a member of a Protestant sect, or have joined the police force, are also in similar danger. As a matter of fact, the IRA is responsible for the deaths of more Roman Catholics than any other single organisation in NI.

 

[Setanta]

How exactly did he make it into office and how long has he been in office?

He was elected in about 1970 for the first time. From memory, I think he replaced Terence O'Neil - beat him in an election for the constituency. He had been running a campaign against O'Neil.

To my knowledge, he hasn't lost his seat since. So, he's been "in office" for over 30 years.

 

[Setanta]

Hi there. Ian P. was the founder of the Ulster Protestant Volunteers and the Ulster Constitution defense Committee, the former a quasi paramilitary group, now having ties to a terrorist/paramilitary group in Northern Ireland. He made it into office, because a) that group carries tremendous "clout" and b) the majority of voters were Protestants. The DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) has ties to that group. (sounds a bit like tactics of organized crime doesn't it???? hmmm...)

No. For a start, Paisley was elected by the people before he started any of those groups... including the DUP. I guess that puts paid to your theory then.

 

[Setanta]

I do hope that one day Northern Ireland can be reunited with the South. Partiton has not worked, the whole of Ireland should belong to the Irish imo, then maybe the terrible wrongs of history might be rectified.

Well personally I hope that we can get our own government back. Then Northern Ireland can be governed by the Irish and not the English. I'd rather not be 'reunited' with the South either.

I say 'reunited' in quotes, because Northern Ireland was never united with the Republic of Ireland in the first place.

I hope William of Orange is not resting easy in his grave, he has much to answer for.

I think he deserves a peaceful rest after helping us quell a European dictator from taking over the continent and turning it into a Catholic European Confederacy. The Pope of that time agreed with me.

The Brits have treated the Irish without respect throughout the centuries. The IRA is a terrible organisation, but one can understand why they have some support!

Funny how you slag off Paisley who, admittedly has much to answer for. And yet, you see the light where the much more insidious IRA is concerned.

In my mind all terrorists in Northern Ireland are, at best, worse than Mafiaosa. To understand why the IRA has support, is to understand why they have blown apart the bodies of babies on the streets of Belfast, and why the police, ambulance and fire brigade, and countless nurses, doctors and volunteers have had to clean up the streets by picking up body parts in the rubble of the aftermath of the demonstrations of their 'cause.'

To support them is even worse.

My grandmother was Irish, and although I could not stand the woman, when I visited Dublin I felt an instant rapport with those lovely folk.

This seems rather off the subject. But yes - for the most part the people of Dublin are nice.

 

[UberLutheran]

A bit of history: about six years ago, a nearby Catholic church burned to the ground (faulty electrical wiring). They had no place to worship, so the Lutheran church I attend offered them the use of our facilities; and we changed our worship time to an hour earlier so they could also worship on Sunday morning.

We even set up an office for them to use as their parish office while their new church was being built. On special occasions (Thanksgiving, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday) we had joint services with them. No one in either congregation had any problem with it. We were invited to the dedication of their church (complete with Communion, which was very very meaningful for them and for us), and we both still participate in joint services on special occasions.

My fantasy: to invite Ian Paisley to my Lutheran parish; and that same day Sunday invite the Catholics in for a joint service. Once he sat down, someone would fasten his ankles to the kneeler so he couldn't get away; and then another person would wrap duct tape around his mouth so he couldn't speak -- and then the Catholic priest and my Lutheran pastor would co-celebrate the service!

The Catholic priest would offer the elements of bread and wine to the Lutheran pastor; then the Lutheran pastor would reciprocate -- and then members of both congregations are invited forward for Communion!

Ian Paisley would sit there -- unable to speak or move -- watching the entire thing!

I'd pull out my wisdom teeth to see that (were it not for the fact that I had all my wisdom teeth removed 15 years ago)!

 

[Gregg Chapman]

This man was a MONSTER. What dose the Gospel of Jesus Christ have to do with the hatred that this man espoused throughout his entire life. NOTHING. Moreover, how ON EARTH can Bob Jones University give this man an honorary degree? Are they aware that his mob was bashing in heads in 1972? More specifically, this man was what is called a Hyper-Calvinist. He truly believed that the people he hated were not to be evangelized, but were "vessels of destruction". His obvious ignorance of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ is apparent. Shame on Bob Jones University! Now that he has passed, Ian finally knows that: "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that EVERYONE who believes may have eternal life in Him." For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:14-16

 

[Bob Crowley]

Off topic a bit, but years ago I used to work with an Irish chap who was Catholic. He was somewhat left wing, but he had a heart of gold. I don't know if he originally came from Ireland or Northern Ireland. A few years ago, I was surprised to see his obituary in the local Catholic newspaper, "The Catholic Leader".

The time we worked together was also a time of trouble in Northern Ireland with the IRA constantly in the news. I'm talking late 70's and early 80's. As a consequence there was a lot of cynicism in Australian circles about Northern Ireland and the IRA.

His comment to us was "You don't know anything about it" (viz. the background to the violence and why it was taking place). The fact is that most of us (Australians) are ignorant of Irish history, and the bitter struggle of Catholics in Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland: A brief background to the conflict

He also had a saying he used to bring up when these sorts of discussions took place - "Ireland was the first colony of the British Empire, and it will be the last."