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WHAT, do you think, is hell?

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Benoni

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&Abel



The Lake of Fire is only in the Book of Revelation the most spiritual Book in all the Bible; the lake of Fire is symbolic and not literal for this reason.

"The lake of fire and brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone. The word brimstone, or sulphur, defines the character of the fire.

"The word theion (Greek), translated brimstone, is exactly the same word theion, which means divine. Sulfur, or brimstone, was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks, and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. The verb derived from theion is theioo which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god. (See Liddell and Scott Greek English Lexicon, 1897 Edition.)

If you do not agree with the above then why brimestone?


"To any Greek, or to any trained in the Greek language, a lake of fire and brimstone would mean a lake of divine purification. The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plan) meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment' is associated with it.

"The word torment needs study. In the New Testament the same word is used of one "sick of' the palsy, grievously tormented." (Matt. 8:6). It is used of the disciples' ship in Galilee, and is translated "tossed with the waves" (Matt.14:24) It is translated by the word tailing in Mark 6:48. It is translated by the word vexed in speaking of Lot. (2 Pet. 2:8). It is translated by a word that means birth-pains (Rev. 12:2). In other scriptures it is translated by the word torment or tormented. The original idea of the verb is "to put to the test by rubbing on a touchstone." Then it means "to question by applying some test or torture to discover whether true or not." The original idea was to test some metal that looked like gold to find whether it was real or not. The meaning and usage of this word harmonizes with the idea of divine purification and the torment which is the test to find whether there has been any change in the sufferer or not. Through the hidden loving purpose of God, every pang of torment will he a birth-pang; and the grace of God will not be absent - and, as He says, "Behold, I am making all things new" (literal), He will leave no spot in the universe unrenewed, "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" (Phil. 2:10, 11, literal). The ages of the ages come to an end. "Then cometh the end (I Cor. 15:24-28). Time ceases. There will be no "day and night" in eternity. The suffering lasts only while there is "day and night". Rev. 20: 10."

Lake of PUR:

PUR: A primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning):--fiery, fire

PURINOS: from PUR; fiery, i.e. (by implication) flaming:--of fire.

PURRHOS: from PUR; fire-like, i.e. (specially), flame- colored:--red.

PURA: from PUR; a fire (concretely):--fire.

PUROO: from PUR; to kindle, i.e. (passively) to be ignited, glow (literally), be refined (by implication), or (figuratively) to be inflamed (with anger, grief, lust):--burn, fiery, be on fire, try.

PURESSO: from PURA; to be on fire, i.e. (specially), to have a fever:--be sick of a fever.

PURETOS: from PURESSO; inflamed, i.e. (by implication) feverish (as noun, fever):--fever.

PUROSIS: from PUROO; ignition, i.e. (specially), smelting (figuratively, conflagration, calamity as a test):--burning, trial.

If the LAKE OF FIRE was refining, it would be called the Lake of PUROO or Lake of PUROSIS.




 
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&Abel said:
Revelation 20

14Then (AW)death and Hades were thrown into (AX)the lake of fire This is the (AY)second death, the lake of fire.
15And if anyone's name was not found written in (AZ)the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Click to expand...

So if sheol is the center of the earth how exactly is it thrown into this lake of fire?

To read this as literal is to make a huge mistake. If we pay attention we see int he very first verse of revelation that what follows is symbolic as shown in a vision to John.

As for what the lake of fire symbolizes. I would say the judgment and purification. As Paul said the work of every man will be tried by fire to see what sort it is gold and silver or hay and stubble [as I pointed out before this is the meaning of the word translated as torment used in revelation, brimstone is also or was thought to be a purifing agent] Paul goes on to say that the man shall be saved. Revelation goes on to say that all things will be made new.

The second death would appear to be the death of death, sheol, sin. Those who have over came shall not be harmed by it and those who have not shall suffer loss [this includes most if not all christians] yet all will be saved as by fire. Our God is a consuming fire.
 
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Benoni

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To add to your point...


The Book of Revelation is the most spiritual Book in all the Bible and I always say the Book of Genesis is in a close second. John was in spirit on the Lord’s Day, no where does it say He was literal or prophetic on the Lords day; or partially literal or prophetic on the Lords day. It say he was in spirit, and seeing the Book of Revelation is a spiritual Book about the revelation or the unveiling of Jesus Christ; this revelation must be within us because is that not where God’s spirit dwells.

Second point: Notice the first verse of the book. Should I believe you or God’s Word? I am backing my claim by God’s Word it is symbolic especially in Revelation; so if you say it is literal then prove it with God’s Word? Revelations is a book of symbolism; and is not literal.

Revelations 1:1​


The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

This one little word is so reverent to the whole book Revelations; ‘signified” or signs and symbols. The Book Revelations can only be understood not as a book of prophecy, or literally; but as a very deep and awesome spiritual book by using signs and symbols that can only be found in the Bible. I apologize for the size of my answer to your question.
 
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the current abode of the dead will be disposed of...

I see a whole lotta tap dancing around whats clearly shown in various scriptures

Matthew 12

40for just as (AR)JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will (AS)the Son of Man be (AT)three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
 
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clint25n

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"It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of Heaven than believe in the existence of Hell. According to the Bible, though, Hell is just as real as Heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that Hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite in eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death, what we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10,11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in Hell is as never-ending as the bliss of the righteous in Heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that the punishment in Hell is just as everlasting as eternal life in Heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God in Hell. They consciously suffer shame and contempt and the assaults of an accusing conscience for all of eternity. Even those in Hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalms 76:10). Those who are in Hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, Hell is real. Yes, Hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end! Praise God that through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16,18,36)."
http://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html
 
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Benoni

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There is a place of the dead it is called Sheol or Hades and Gehenna. These words mean the place of the dead. Points being these are abiding places and not a place of eternal punishment many faulty translations portray.

The word punishment means to prune, chastise and the words everlasting, eternity and forever come from the Latin (the language of the Catholic church) and not the Greek and Hebrew.

Here is a another thought for you using God’s Word not my opinion. Notice I also use God’s Word to interpret the verse instead of some long dead (Latin) church school. So who do you believe; God’s Word or man religious tradition?

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:

A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the spiritual grasses. As a boy I notice the farmer would give the sheep the second and third cuttings of grass; full of leaves and substance. Now a cow would eat the first cutting the lesser of the hay crop, made up of stems and little leaf compared to the earlier cuttings.

Of course a goat will eat any carnal garbage as long as it is in front of his nose.

Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity.

Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature. What garbage have you been eating to believe that Jesus is a terriorist.

Sheep Separated from Goats

Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056


1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

If you were a Jew in Jesus day there would be no problem with this parable, you see a Jew knows a goat and a sheep are clean animals.

PIG

Now if you the verses were referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?

Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.

Unless of cource you baby goats want to burn forever and ever.


But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.

Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angel (messengers)

So many of God’s people are baby goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture
 
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well least you realize sheol is an abiding place and not just a word meaning grave as some would like to believe

it is separated into torment and paradise though

I'm wondering what the original words in Enoch were(forever and ever etc)

do you know?
 
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Universalists all promote that unsaved sinful man can come into a state of salvation in the after life. Yet this belief seemingly directly conflicts with Scripture. The strongest proof to reject universalism is a comparison of Revelation 14:11; 19:3; 20:10 and 20:15, which invites the reader to believe that those who are cast into the lake of fire remain there forever. To argue against the understanding that there are souls cast into the lake of fire forever, universalists look to extra-biblical works to support their arguments against the Greek word for "eternal." They quote such and such said this and who and who thinks this, and so on and so forth. They exhaust all their resources to refute this because, quite literally, if the word does indeed mean eternal in regards to the after life, the age to come, the case for Christian universalism evaporates before their very eyes. However, it is wise to note that anything that is extra biblical is just that—extra biblical. As such we are not to base our doctrines upon the musings and words of uninspired men. Commentators are only useful in so much as to draw our attention to a doctrine that either is or is not represented in the Scriptures. However, if you are not educated enough to use Greek as a vehicle for study, you must trust that God did not fail to deliver the Scriptures to you in a language that you can understand. Furthermore, the argument the universalists promote, this ages of ages, flies in the face of the Hebrew concept of time. When taking into account the different concepts of time that Western civilization holds in comparison to the Hebrew concept of time, the rendering of the Hebrew and Greek into "for ever and ever" and the like is correct when it refers to the age to come. Anything different is scholarly pride and ambition as if to say, "Look everybody else is wrong, this should be 'ages of ages.'" Doing this amounts to nothing more than a half truth as I will explain below.

http://www.ovrlnd.com/Universalism/aionios.html

the age to come is an eternal age(both sides of the spectrum)
 
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Something that is within their ability to understand is the Hebrew concept of time. To understand the Hebrew concept of time, you must grasp the idea that the Hebrew mind did not think of the passage of time as a medium onto itself like the Greek mind or how western civilization views time. Rather, to a Hebrew, the passage of time was life. God's plan, in the Hebrew mind, consisted that man participated in two great ages. One age was this temporal in nature, the other great age was the age to come. Each of these great ages were divided up into smaller ages by events that occurred through life. Ultimately the sum of the temporal age was finite, and the sum of the age to come was infinite, which is to say, everlasting. Hence, the rendering of "ages of ages" while technically correct, completely fails to convey the meaning to the western reader. Therefore, to render the English as "for ever and ever" is correct, because this does explain the idea of the passage. However, if you are a universalist whom disbelieves this explanation, I encourage that you don't trust me, instead learn of the truth for yourselves from an expert. To accomplish this, I ask that you seek out your local synagogue and speak with the rabbi you find there. For starters, the rabbi is a completely neutral source of information; because his view will most likely be that we are both members of a really big cult called Christendom, and as such, he won't care one way or another. Get the rabbi to explain how Old Testament Hebrews viewed time. While ages of ages is a correct possible grammatical construction from an Old Testament Hebrew's point of view­this means "forever and ever" to the same Old Testament Hebrew when it refers to the age to come, the after life. Thus any translator interested in translating what is meant by the phrase in the original language will render the Greek "for ever and ever"

http://www.ovrlnd.com/Universalism/aionios.html
 
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Benoni

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&Abel said:
well least you realize sheol is an abiding place and not just a word meaning grave as some would like to believe

it is separated into torment and paradise though

I'm wondering what the original words in Enoch were(forever and ever etc)

do you know?
Click to expand...


I do not believe in the Book of Enoch.

God is not calling all people NOW.

Hades is a place of waiting more then torment; if there is a place of torment it would be the earth realm we live now. Too much of Christian is based on paradise and the heathen a place of torture. God's is bringing forth Kings and Priest for the remaninder of mankind (Rev.1:6) under the Melchedeck Prieshood or in other words the Tabernacle of David.

Lets look at the David’s Tabernacle which many brother do not even realize is relevant.

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this
Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)
Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

Do you understand what the Tabernacle of David is?

The Tabernacle of David; here was a small tent where the Ark of God (Glory of God) was brought to Mount Zion/Sion; how many times is this name mentioned in the NT. Zion was mentioned 152 times in OT; where Sion was mention 7 times in NT; sure this was David’s home Solomon etc; but is also a symbolism.

Zion was the natural home of King David who is a type of Christ in Natural Jerusalem. Mt Zion was the head of natural Kingdom; just as Spiritual Mt Zion is the Spiritual high place of Christ in the book of Revelation. David did not need to go to a priest; let alone a high priest to visit the Ark (or the glory of God) it was in a tent or tabernacle on his back porch at Mt Zion. This is a beautiful type which tells us myriads of what God is tying to tell us in the Spirit of the Word.

David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was one after God’s own heart. David lived in Jerusalem and Mount Zion (Sion); That is where the earthly anointed King lived and all His court; what a wonderful type of the ruler ship of the spiritual Mount Zion.

When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.

2 Samuel 6:​
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.​
17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD​
​
Point being God is raising up a true priesthood for the remainder of mankind.








 
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Benoni

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I do not believe in the Book of Enoch.

God is not calling all people NOW.

Hades is a place of waiting more then torment; if there is a place of torment it would be the earth realm we live now. Too much of Christian is based on paradise and the heathen a place of torture. God's is bringing forth Kings and Priest for the remaninder of mankind (Rev.1:6) under the Melchedeck Prieshood or in other words the Tabernacle of David.

Lets look at the David’s Tabernacle which many brother do not even realize is relevant.

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this
Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)
Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

Do you understand what the Tabernacle of David is?

The Tabernacle of David; here was a small tent where the Ark of God (Glory of God) was brought to Mount Zion/Sion; how many times is this name mentioned in the NT. Zion was mentioned 152 times in OT; where Sion was mention 7 times in NT; sure this was David’s home Solomon etc; but is also a symbolism.

Zion was the natural home of King David who is a type of Christ in Natural Jerusalem. Mt Zion was the head of natural Kingdom; just as Spiritual Mt Zion is the Spiritual high place of Christ in the book of Revelation. David did not need to go to a priest; let alone a high priest to visit the Ark (or the glory of God) it was in a tent or tabernacle on his back porch at Mt Zion. This is a beautiful type which tells us myriads of what God is tying to tell us in the Spirit of the Word.

David was king; He was God’s anointed King; not like Saul who was also anointed by God; but chosen by the people; like many ministries in the church (little c) realm today. David was one of those special people God called, anointed and was one after God’s own heart. David lived in Jerusalem and Mount Zion (Sion); That is where the earthly anointed King lived and all His court; what a wonderful type of the ruler ship of the spiritual Mount Zion.

When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.


2 Samuel 6:
14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD​
Point being God is raising up a true priesthood for the remainder of mankind.
 
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2 Esdras

[42(112)] He answered me and said, "This present world is not the end; the full glory does not abide in it; therefore those who were strong prayed for the weak.
[43(113)] But the day of judgment will be the end of this age and the beginning of the immortal age to come, in which corruption has passed away,
[44(114)] sinful indulgence has come to an end, unbelief has been cut off, and righteousness has increased and truth has appeared.
[45(115)] Therefore no one will then be able to have mercy on him who has been condemned in the judgment, or to harm him who is victorious."

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm
 
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2 Esdras

[42(112)] He answered me and said, "This present world is not the end; the full glory does not abide in it; therefore those who were strong prayed for the weak.
[43(113)] But the day of judgment will be the end of this age and the beginning of the immortal age to come, in which corruption has passed away,
[44(114)] sinful indulgence has come to an end, unbelief has been cut off, and righteousness has increased and truth has appeared.
[45(115)] Therefore no one will then be able to have mercy on him who has been condemned in the judgment, or to harm him who is victorious."

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm
 
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2 Esdras

[42(112)] He answered me and said, "This present world is not the end; the full glory does not abide in it; therefore those who were strong prayed for the weak.
[43(113)] But the day of judgment will be the end of this age and the beginning of the immortal age to come, in which corruption has passed away,
[44(114)] sinful indulgence has come to an end, unbelief has been cut off, and righteousness has increased and truth has appeared.
[45(115)] Therefore no one will then be able to have mercy on him who has been condemned in the judgment, or to harm him who is victorious."

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm
 
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2 Esdras

[42(112)] He answered me and said, "This present world is not the end; the full glory does not abide in it; therefore those who were strong prayed for the weak.
[43(113)] But the day of judgment will be the end of this age and the beginning of the immortal age to come, in which corruption has passed away,
[44(114)] sinful indulgence has come to an end, unbelief has been cut off, and righteousness has increased and truth has appeared.
[45(115)] Therefore no one will then be able to have mercy on him who has been condemned in the judgment, or to harm him who is victorious."

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_ot/2esdr.htm
 
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