What do you believe and why?

[Archaeopteryx]

I responded to your request with essentially three pages of material, including a list of resources. If you think three pages of material is too much, then go read a comic book.

I'll read a comic book while waiting for you to respond to my questions/comments. By the looks of it, I'll need to get more than one to read while I wait.

 

[hankroberts]

I'll read a comic book while waiting for you to respond to my questions/comments. By the looks of it, I'll need to get more than one to read while I wait.

I can assure you that you will. The answers to many of those questions are already in the material posted. No point in posting it if you're not going to read it.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I can assure you that you will. The answers to many of those questions are already in the material posted. No point in posting it if you're not going to read it.

If the answers are already there then it wouldn't trouble you to furnish them into a response to each of my questions/comments.

 

[hankroberts]

If the answers are already there then it wouldn't trouble you to furnish them into a response to each of my questions/comments.

There is no point in re-posting something already said. Read what was posted: if you still have a question then point out the material that is unclear and we'll discuss it.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

There is no point in re-posting something already said. Read what was posted: if you still have a question then point out the material that is unclear and we'll discuss it.

I have already posed questions/comments on the material for us to discuss. You won't discuss them.

 

[hankroberts]

I have already posed questions/comments on the material for us to discuss. You won't discuss them.

And the responses to your questions/comments already exist, in the material. But if you don't read it there, why should I present it again, here?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

And the responses to your questions/comments already exist, in the material.

"The answer is in there... somewhere."
Where?

But if you don't read it there, why should I present it again, here?

Because I'm not doing your work for you. If you already have an answer, then it doesn't trouble you to tailor it to my question. This is a discussion forum, a place for conversation. I think you misunderstood the character of the interaction that takes place here. This is not a podium for you to present a thesis completion seminar. Even if it was, such seminars are typically followed by a question session. It would usually be considered rude for the speaker to dismiss an audience member's question by telling them that the answer is somewhere in the presentation they gave.

 

[hankroberts]

"The answer is in there... somewhere."
Where?



Because I'm not doing your work for you. If you already have an answer, then it doesn't trouble you to tailor it to my question. This is a discussion forum, a place for conversation. I think you misunderstood the character of the interaction that takes place here. This is not a podium for you to present a thesis completion seminar. Even if it was, such seminars are typically followed by a question session. It would usually be considered rude for the speaker to dismiss an audience member's question by telling them that the answer is somewhere in the presentation they gave.

It would usually be considered rude for the speaker to dismiss an audience member's question by telling them that the answer is somewhere in the presentation they gave.

That's rich. It would usually be considered rude for an audience member to say "I have questions about your thesis, but I didn't bother to read it."

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's rich. It would usually be considered rude for an audience member to say "I have questions about your thesis, but I didn't bother to read it."

Seeing as I already made clear from the very beginning that I wasn't going to read a thesis, it's not rude at all. Moreover, as I noted in my previous post, this isn't a podium for your thesis completion seminar, so I'm not an audience member at all.

 

[hankroberts]

Seeing as I already made clear from the very beginning that I wasn't going to read a thesis, it's not rude at all. Moreover, as I noted in my previous post, this isn't a podium for your thesis completion seminar, so I'm not an audience member at all.

Then the obvious question is begged: why did YOU use the analogy?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Then the obvious question is begged: why did YOU use the analogy?

You may have missed the bolded part: "This is not a podium for you to present a thesis completion seminar. Even if it was, such seminars are typically followed by a question session."

 

[hankroberts]

You may have missed the bolded part: "This is not a podium for you to present a thesis completion seminar. Even if it was, such seminars are typically followed by a question session."

Which of course doesn't negate the fact that it was your reference: I merely responded. Now as you pointed out, this is supposed to be a discussion. In a discussion each party reviews what the other party presents, and responds. When you're ready to do that, let me know.

 

[talquin]

What do you believe to be the source of the universe and why? If you respond that you do not know, please provide an intelligent reason as to why you do not know.

Thank you.

I don't know.

Why I don't know? Several reasons:
1) I wasn't there to observe the beginning of the universe
2) I have yet to hear an explanation for the origin of the universe which seems overly obvious.

 

[talquin]

Ok, so let's say before the big bang or whatever it is everything is expanding from, there is another form of the universe. Where did it come from? Isn't the entire integrity of science based off of cause and effect?

Are you saying the universe is eternal?

I would say most likely the universe (perhaps in another form) is eternal. But I don't know for sure.

 

[talquin]

But where did everything come from? Even if we are a result of billions up billions of years of necessary chance creation, where did that come from?

Can we safely say that the origin of all of this defies our logic?

Where did everything come from?

It either did come from something or it didn't come from something.

It either did always exist or it did not always exist.

If it came from something, then it raises the question of where that something came from. If we simply say the 2nd something always existed, then why not solve the puzzle by saying the universe always existed?

 

[talquin]

So from all of your responses, this is what I get from this thread.

"I have not a single idea how everything came to be, but God doesn't exist"

Doesn't that contradict itself?

When you say that, what is your definition of "God"?

 

[talquin]

So if you don't believe in God, have you proven He doesn't exist? In any way shape or form? Because if you can't prove the origins of the universe how can you disprove God?

To say that God created the universe is a fallacious argument called argument from ignorance. See Argumentum ad ignorantiam - Iron Chariots Wiki

In most cases, a god can't be disproven, as it's impossible to prove a negative. However, if one posits a god which possesses logically contradictory attributes, such a god can easily be disproven. An example is a god which has infallible foreknowledge of all yet to occur events. Another is a god which loves everyone and can do anything.

 

[talquin]

You believe in God, so you can safely trust to know the answers one day. The question was for non believers and their views of the source of everything.

Why is it necessary that we have an explanation for everything we don't know?

 

[talquin]

The bible

I've come to the point where I realize that people who refute God are victims of their own misunderstanding. You will constantly reach the conclusion that you don't know and you're fine with that. You're finding comfort that you don't know and God doesn't exist. Finding comfort that there are no universal consequences to your actions, it's the same comfort that you think Christians find in knowing there is a life after. I don't believe in God to not go to hell, I believe in God because He is the definition of good and just.

If God didn't exist it would absolutely make life here and now much easier, we wouldn't be accountable for anything we do. We could do anything we wanted, sure we'd have to face consequences that man as made, but on a universal level it doesn't really matter at all. If I were to go to each one of your houses and steal everything you owned and beat you, you would surely say that was wrong. But on a cosmic level, on your own understanding of the universe, it's not wrong. So you would be a hypocrite to impose any sense of right and wrong and you should look at my actions as just that, actions. The very existence of God is proven by your own sense of justice.

I think we have all intelligently come to the conclusion that there may be a God, but who knows, we were not there to witness it. There is also a high probability that if there is a God, there is a strong chance that He would reveal Himself to His creation, thus our sense of right and wrong. God should merit the same amount of research and thinking as any other option, I'm just afraid that many of you brush off that idea too quickly. Is it because of the Christian community? Many Christians are hypocrites, they have indeed made God a character in the sky and use Him like a genie in a bottle.

The reason it all makes perfect sense to me is in the Christian doctrine. It tells us to give up everything we own and spread the word of God. The concept of social security, life insurance, medical insurance, houses, cars, is very contradictory to what being a Christian is all about. We are called to treat life as a mission field and that's it. If life here is a short window compared to what the bible tells us, we cannot hope to receive any sort of eternal salvation if we do not treat this life as temporary and shun any worldy possessions. It saddens me, I feel that if Christians would read their own doctrine and live it, many people would more readily see God's will and characteristics.

The deadliest enemy to the word of God are the billions of Christians world wide who have absolutely no idea what they are reading. They themselves have turned God into a puppet and have made it very difficult for anyone with intelligence, reasoning, and common sense to believe in Him. I think this affects your outlook of Christianity, a rich Christian is hypocritical and will change the viewpoint of those who are seeking the truth.

If you were sick and needed immediate care you would go to the hospital, if you went to a certain hospital and there are hundreds of people who are sick, vomiting, and dying in front of that hospital you would seek another one. The problem is not with the hospital it is with the people who are out front refusing to actually go in and receive treatment.

I had a very real realization this morning and it really bothered me. I think people know that I can get really aggressive with people here on these forums, that is not my intention. My realization was this, many of the people I am talking to are on a very dangerous path, they are quite literally playing with fire. I do not want anyone to believe in God or even consider it out of danger of hell, but it doesn't change the fact that many of the people I talk to are going there. The reasoning behind this is that God is perfectly just, and just as a judge who punishes a criminal, God's very nature demands justice.

You guys are awesome, intelligent, free thinkers who have more of God's attributes in your worldy view then most Christians. I just want you guys to know the truth, and yes, I know, this truth in your view is not truth at all, but it still doesn't change the fact that I would give anything I have here on earth just for you to see it.

What evidence do you have that a god actually exists?

BTW, atheists don't refute the existence of a god. There are two categories of people:
1) Those who hold the belief that a god exists
2) All people who don't fall into category #1.

Atheist is a term used to describe people in category #2.

 

[talquin]

God made man in His image, all men not just believers.

What evidence do you have that man was made by God? Where did you get the idea that man was made by God?

Do you think our sense of right and wrong comes from the bible or that God breathed it into us? You should really not let the secular world blend its ideology into your faith, this is the result.

Our sense of right and wrong comes primarily from our elders when we were in our more youthful years.