What do we do to prevent another Las Vegas?

[Aldebaran]

It also provides the option of instant suicide, accidentally shooting the kids, and inadvertently arming thieves.

Nobody arms thieves. They arm themselves.

 

[Aldebaran]

Or we could wave a magic wand. You seem to think it's that easy.

A gun ban has to be executed and enforced. Penalties have to be increased--mandatory sentences. No-knock search and seizure--but be sure to go in with guns blazing, in case the kid sleeping on the sofa is hiding a gat. Like drug laws.

Black men always lose. That's the way law enforcement in the US works.

Have you ever seen the "Whitepaper" about SWAT raids? It's pretty depressing. Here's the link to it. Click on it and scroll down slightly and then you can download it. Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America

 

[Aldebaran]

You don't have to teach me about gun safety. I had a hunting license and a shot gun and the proper gun safety training all before I could drive a car. That is beside the point.

The fact of the matter is: in a country of 300 million people we have too many guns. Yes most gun owners are responsible but apparently it is impossible for a nation to have this many responsible gun owners with out a significant number of people who do very bad things with guns. And I'm not talking about just gang bangers. I'm talking about the people who help drive the numbers up in terms of successful suicides or domestic abuse. These numbers increase with increasing numbers of guns in the home.

If the number of guns was reduced in the way that many have proposed doing (bans, eliminating the second amendment, etc.), the only guns that would be reduced would be the ones owned by honest and law abiding citizens. The criminals and irresponsible owners would be the ones who would hang onto theirs. Therefore, the problem of "too many" would not be solved. It would simply disarm the responsible and law abiding. THAT'S why the law abiding citizens oppose new laws that do such things.

 

[Aldebaran]

IF one is quick enough and skilled enough and not surprised by being attacked.

That's the point. This idea that we are all Bruce Willis in Die Hard walking around ever vigilant and ready to make the right call when the stuff goes down is silly. I don't live my daily life ready at a moment's notice to draw my weapon and make a split second decision on whether to discharge it.

If I was packin' heat right now and I was walking down the street and someone came up to me from behind and said "Gimme your wallet or I'll stab you", I'm pretty darn sure I would NOT have the wherewithal to slickly pull my .45 out, spin around effortlessly and blow the punk away. I'd freeze. Just like almost every other person who is not acting in front a camera with stunt men available.

Take a defense class. You'll learn how to be more aware of your surroundings so that you're not taken completely by surprise. You could at least watch some Youtube videos on the subject of concealed carry defense to get some ideas. Not a substitute for the real thing, but it sure helps to open your eyes about what is needed.

 

[Obliquinaut]

If the number of guns was reduced in the way that many have proposed doing (bans, eliminating the second amendment, etc.), the only guns that would be reduced would be the ones owned by honest and law abiding citizens. The criminals and irresponsible owners would be the ones who would hang onto theirs. Therefore, the problem of "too many" would not be solved. It would simply disarm the responsible and law abiding. THAT'S why the law abiding citizens oppose new laws that do such things.

So why does the NRA feel the need to inflate the number of cases where someone successfully defended themselves with a gun? See the earlier post. The NRA trots out the 2.5million number but actual studies show it is less than 700,000.

But here's the bigger point: the statistics show that guns in the home positively correlate with higher rates of successful suicides and harm to women (domestic abuse). Obviously all those people are not hardened criminals who will keep their guns despite a ban and in fact I suspect most of those guns are purchased legally. So it might actually cut into those figures.

Law abiding citizens by and large don't use their guns for any of the stuff that we are told they need their guns for. If anything it is just a security blanket. Except this security blanket seems to be used to harm others more often than it is to save oneself.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Take a defense class. You'll learn how to be more aware of your surroundings so that you're not taken completely by surprise. You could at least watch some Youtube videos on the subject of concealed carry defense to get some ideas. Not a substitute for the real thing, but it sure helps to open your eyes about what is needed.

LOL. You are missing the point entirely. And if you think American trained up by watching YouTube videos will lead to a bunch of super-action heroes with cat-like reflexes who never miss with their shot and always get the bad guy, then you must really have a "positive" view of humans. Because most people I know can barely function behind the wheel of a car let alone do all the stuff Ahnold does in a single action movie.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Luke 22:36
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

^^^^THE MOST IMPORTANT VERSE IN THE BIBLE, apparently! Forget about the whole "Put up again thy sword into his place" and "resist not evil but whosever strikes you on the left cheek turn also to him the right cheek"! That's for the wussy followers of Jesus. The MANLY followers should get in the other line...the line where Jesus teaches you how to service your Barrett M-82 in the field.

 

[dgiharris]

You realize, don't you, that would become a new war on black men. You realize that, right?

Because that's how America operates.

This is precisely how the war on drugs began.

Ugghhh very true

 

[Circumcised_Heart]

Las Vegas is easy. Just ban gambling.

 

[Aldebaran]

So why does the NRA feel the need to inflate the number of cases where someone successfully defended themselves with a gun? See the earlier post. The NRA trots out the 2.5million number but actual studies show it is less than 700,000.

But here's the bigger point: the statistics show that guns in the home positively correlate with higher rates of successful suicides and harm to women (domestic abuse). Obviously all those people are not hardened criminals who will keep their guns despite a ban and in fact I suspect most of those guns are purchased legally. So it might actually cut into those figures.

Law abiding citizens by and large don't use their guns for any of the stuff that we are told they need their guns for. If anything it is just a security blanket. Except this security blanket seems to be used to harm others more often than it is to save oneself.

Even if you were correct about the NRA figures being inflated, it's not true that more than 700,000 people are killed by guns in a criminal manner in the country each year. But there's really no way to know how many times the presence of a gun thwarted an attack. Even just the knowledge by a criminal that a potential victim had a gun could make them go another direction.

 

[Aldebaran]

LOL. You are missing the point entirely. And if you think American trained up by watching YouTube videos will lead to a bunch of super-action heroes with cat-like reflexes who never miss with their shot and always get the bad guy, then you must really have a "positive" view of humans. Because most people I know can barely function behind the wheel of a car let alone do all the stuff Ahnold does in a single action movie.

I don't know why you keep bringing up "super action heroes" or "Ahnold". Can't you stick with talking about reality? Every time I bring up things in reality, you resort to movies and comic books. Let's try to at least be on the same page when discussing the topic.

 

[Aldebaran]

^^^^THE MOST IMPORTANT VERSE IN THE BIBLE, apparently! Forget about the whole "Put up again thy sword into his place" and "resist not evil but whosever strikes you on the left cheek turn also to him the right cheek"! That's for the wussy followers of Jesus. The MANLY followers should get in the other line...the line where Jesus teaches you how to service your Barrett M-82 in the field.

Until you knock off the sarcasm, there's really no point in continuing to discuss this with you.

 

[Obliquinaut]

I don't know why you keep bringing up "super action heroes" or "Ahnold".

Because that is what I perceive many gun owners think about their skills and abilities to defend themselves.

Can't you stick with talking about reality?

When I talk about reality like the statistics I'm told by gun advocates that statistics aren't how decisions should be made.

Every time I bring up things in reality, you resort to movies and comic books. Let's try to at least be on the same page when discussing the topic.

Wow. So explain to me again:

1. Why does the NRA need to inflate the numbers of actual gun-based self-defense statistics by about 4x?

2. If more gun ownership leads to higher levels of safety why does America with among the highest rates of gun ownership have among the highest rates of gun homicides?

3. Why are statistics not to be relied on in making informed decisions?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Until you knock off the sarcasm, there's really no point in continuing to discuss this with you.

LOL. I love how folks on the Right side of the debate turn into gentle snowflakes when a lefty gets a bit snarky.

 

[Obliquinaut]

But there's really no way to know how many times the presence of a gun thwarted an attack.

ESPECIALLY since the NRA effectively got Congress to make it ILLEGAL for the CDC to study the actual numbers!

I would ask you why that was necessary but I doubt I'd get a good answer.

Even just the knowledge by a criminal that a potential victim had a gun could make them go another direction.

So you say. Yet, again, the statistics indicate that in the developed country with the most guns we still have among the most gun homicides. And the statistics show that with a gun in the house the number of successful suicides and women abused increases. Huh. But SURELY more guns makes us more safe, right?

But we can't know the numbers. Nope.

 

[Aldebaran]

Because that is what I perceive many gun owners think about their skills and abilities to defend themselves.

Your perceptions don't reflect reality. They only reflect how you are stereotyping people.

When I talk about reality like the statistics I'm told by gun advocates that statistics aren't how decisions should be made.

If you want to be a dictator that uses statistics to control how people live their lives, then go for it. Most of us value our freedom.

Wow. So explain to me again:

1. Why does the NRA need to inflate the numbers of actual gun-based self-defense statistics by about 4x?

2. If more gun ownership leads to higher levels of safety why does America with among the highest rates of gun ownership have among the highest rates of gun homicides?

3. Why are statistics not to be relied on in making informed decisions?

All questions which have already been answered. I can't help if you don't agree with the answers. They won't change just because you keep asking.

 

[Aldebaran]

LOL.

Yeah. LOL.

 

[Aldebaran]

LOL. I love how folks on the Right side of the debate turn into gentle snowflakes when a lefty gets a bit snarky.

If you are unable to have a civil discussion, then your chances of having one aren't very good.

 

[Obliquinaut]

If you want to be a dictator that uses statistics to control how people live their lives, then go for it. Most of us value our freedom.

So you don't have any really good reason to ignore statistics other than you don't like it when they don't support your position? (Don't worry, that's pretty common. That coupled with a general lack of education in statistics are two quite common issues when statistics come up.

 

[Obliquinaut]

If you are unable to have a civil discussion, then your chances of having one aren't very good.

So when I try to use actual data and numbers you decree that statistics is for dictators and you think that's a reasonable discussion?

Look, I get it. A lot of folks go their entire lives not doing statistics. It is one of the hazards for people like me who got a PhD and make our living doing research and development in industry.