what do people here think of Joyce Meyer?

[Lilly Owl]

I've tried to watch her TV sermons a couple of times. I just don't feel it from her. In my opinion to put it simply enough she's not anointed. She's in it for the money.

 

[sunlover1]

Heretic hunters are on my least liked list.
That guys taking text out of context, how low can he get?
You think she's a bad person for having a private plane?
I guess I don't.
Because if I'm going to condemn her than I need
to condemn you and me too.
We have WAY more than we need...
Where do we draw the line? at our own possessions,
no higher or youre greedy? lol.
kwim?
Then there's the example of how God blessed a man who He was pleased with
King Solomon you greedy example of prosperity ...

Nah, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon yet.
Now the toilet seat, that's where I draw the line

 

[Albion]

Heretic hunters are on my least liked list.
That guys taking text out of context, how low can he get?
You think she's a bad person for having a private plane?
I guess I don't.
Because if I'm going to condemn her than I need
to condemn you and me too.
We have WAY more than we need...
Where do we draw the line? at our own possessions,
no higher or youre greedy? lol.
kwim?
Then there's the example of how God blessed a man who He was pleased with
King Solomon you greedy example of prosperity ...

Nah, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon yet.
Now the toilet seat, that's where I draw the line

That guy raving about Joyce Meyer can't even put together a coherent argument OR spell her name correctly, but we're supposed to consider HIM the authority on the subject and our model of Christian behavior??

Puhleeeeze!

 

[squint]

Heretic hunters are on my least liked list.
That guys taking text out of context, how low can he get?
You think she's a bad person for having a private plane?
I guess I don't.
Because if I'm going to condemn her than I need
to condemn you and me too.
We have WAY more than we need...
Where do we draw the line? at our own possessions,
no higher or youre greedy? lol.
kwim?
Then there's the example of how God blessed a man who He was pleased with
King Solomon you greedy example of prosperity ...

Nah, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon yet.
Now the toilet seat, that's where I draw the line

It is certainly NOT illegal in this country currently to preach the Gospel(?????) and have people send in their $$$ to TAX EXEMPT Corporations where the recipients can spend MILLIONS on what many would consider to be 'personal' items such as HUGE SALARIES, PRIVATE JETS and MANSIONS.

Nothing illegal about that at all. They can even OFFSHORE those funds in TAX FREE situations by the likewise MILLIONS.

All perfectly LEGAL.

How 'christian' it is is debatable. For me that is a firm uh, no thank you as far as 'contributions' go.

And I suspect that at some point our idiotic government will see through this sham of democracy and shut it down, but unfortunately many of them have their own almost identical TAX DODGING SCAMS in place so none of them are prone to squealing on each others are they?

Oh well. I guess I must be a hater for seeing the obvious?

zzzzzzzz

s

 

[Albion]

It is certainly NOT illegal in this country currently to preach the Gospel(?????) and have people send in their $$$ to TAX EXEMPT Corporations where the recipients can spend MILLIONS on what many would consider to be 'personal' items such as HUGE SALARIES, PRIVATE JETS and MANSIONS.

Nothing illegal about that at all. They can even OFFSHORE those funds in TAX FREE situations by the likewise MILLIONS.

All perfectly LEGAL.

How 'christian' it is is debatable. For me that is a firm uh, no thank you as far as 'contributions' go.

And I suspect that at some point our idiotic government will see through this sham of democracy and shut it down, but unfortunately many of them have their own almost identical TAX DODGING SCAMS in place so none of them are prone to squealing on each others are they?

Oh well. I guess I must be a hater for seeing the obvious?

zzzzzzzz

s

I don't think you saw the obvious, however. By mixing in a lot of other issues and people, the point about Joyce Meyer using a private jet to crisscross the country all the time is confused. It is obvious to me that this is nothing special and certainly nothing shameful.

What do the complainers think she should do--take the bus? You see, the problem is that EVERYONE can be made out to be a "money grubbing" hypocrite so long as we contrast some normal action with the worst situation existing somewhere in the world. It goes like this---"Mother Teresa, you say you helped a lot of people, but you took in contributions. Why didn't you spend your time and that money helping to end AIDS or help that quadraplegic in Bangladesh instead of making yourself look good? Your sisters have some pretty nice saris, too, I noticed. Couldn't they have worn paper gowns instead?"

 

[squint]

I don't think you saw the obvious, however. By mixing in a lot of other issues and people, the point about Joyce Meyer using a private jet to crisscross the country all the time is confused. It is obvious to me that this is nothing special and certainly nothing shameful.

I'm not saying that the purchase of cars, jets, mansions and offshore tax free accounts are illegal, in the Name of God, of course.

As are dinners that cost $10000 a plate etc etc etc.

All tax free. Of course.

All in the Name of Jesus, of course!

What do the complainers think she should do--take the bus?

I'm sure if you could buy your personal mansions, jets, cars and offshore accounts tax free you would as well, in the Name of Jesus too.

You see, the problem is that EVERYONE can be made out to be a "money grubbing" hypocrite

Indeed. Even in the Name of Jesus. It's all entirely quite legal.

For now. And maybe for a long time.

so long as we contrast some normal action with the worst situation existing somewhere in the world. It goes like this--"Mother Teresa, you say you helped a lot of people, but you took in contributions. Why didn't you spend your time and that money helping to end AIDS or that quadraplegic in Bangladesh instead of making yourself look good?"

That's what I said A. As far as being a contributor goes, that's where I draw my line. If others want to fund it IN THE NAME OF JESUS that's their call isn't it?

In the Name of Jesus I elect to pass on sending cash. My right.

I'm quite sure that some of what the lady sez might actually be truthful. No doubt about that to me.

s

 

[sunlover1]

That guy raving about Joyce Meyer can't even put together a coherent argument OR spell her name correctly, but we're supposed to consider HIM the authority on the subject and our model of Christian behavior??

Puhleeeeze!

Yeah, that was not cool at all.

It is certainly NOT illegal in this country currently to preach the Gospel(?????) and have people send in their $$$ to TAX EXEMPT Corporations where the recipients can spend MILLIONS on what many would consider to be 'personal' items such as HUGE SALARIES, PRIVATE JETS and MANSIONS.

Nothing illegal about that at all. They can even OFFSHORE those funds in TAX FREE situations by the likewise MILLIONS.

All perfectly LEGAL.

How 'christian' it is is debatable. For me that is a firm uh, no thank you as far as 'contributions' go.

And I suspect that at some point our idiotic government will see through this sham of democracy and shut it down, but unfortunately many of them have their own almost identical TAX DODGING SCAMS in place so none of them are prone to squealing on each others are they?

Oh dang s, this is way out of my league.
I think that she could do things way differently but then again, I have
NO idea of HOW she 'does things" with her finances.
Hear she's outrageously wealthy. But I can't see into her heart
and I can't see what she does for others.
Suppose God WANTs to bless her financially.. She does seem to be
offering her body as a living sacrifice, which is only a 'reasonable
service' according to God.
What if God WANTs to bless her with long life (With long life, I will
satisfy you) and with wealth (the wealth of the wicked IS laid up for
the just?) and with houses she didn't build... etc.
Yeah, I'm not the one to ask.

I have buried my talents

Oh well. I guess I must be a hater for seeing the obvious?

I'm sure you're an equal opportunity hater.

 

[Albion]

I'm not saying that the purchase of cars, jets, mansions and offshore tax free accounts are illegal, in the Name of God, of course.

As are dinners that cost $10000 a plate etc etc etc.

All tax free. Of course.

All in the Name of Jesus, of course!



I'm sure if you could buy your personal mansions, jets, cars and offshore accounts tax free you would as well, in the Name of Jesus too.



Indeed. Even in the Name of Jesus. It's all entirely quite legal.

For now. And maybe for a long time.

But I don't recall anyone saying anything about it being illegal, so....???????

Are you campaigning against the tax code rather than Joyce Meyer?

 

[squint]

But I don't recall anyone saying anything about it being illegal, so....???????

Are you campaigning against the tax code rather than Joyce Meyer?

It's all in the Name of Haysues A.

Party on!

 

[sunlover1]

I don't think you saw the obvious, however. By mixing in a lot of other issues and people, the point about Joyce Meyer using a private jet to crisscross the country all the time is confused. It is obvious to me that this is nothing special and certainly nothing shameful.

What do the complainers think she should do--take the bus? You see, the problem is that EVERYONE can be made out to be a "money grubbing" hypocrite so long as we contrast some normal action with the worst situation existing somewhere in the world. It goes like this---"Mother Teresa, you say you helped a lot of people, but you took in contributions. Why didn't you spend your time and that money helping to end AIDS or help that quadraplegic in Bangladesh instead of making yourself look good? Your sisters have some pretty nice saris, too, I noticed. Couldn't they have worn paper gowns instead?"

Good point.
I'm VERY guilty of that.
Kids starving in Haiti.
My girlfriend just got back from there
yesterday. I made THREE desserts for
my guests last night AFTER eating not
only chicken but chicken AND ribs AND
paying 2.50 a cup for a cuppa
Coulda fed those orphans rice and beans
(cos that's what they eat there) for a day
on my cuppa.

True story^

Yikes. We're ALL greedy.

 

[Albion]

It's all in the Name of Haysues A.

Party on!

Well, here's the point from my perspective (and then I'm done).

When did envy become a Christian virtue? That's what most of this thread is about--tearing down someone whose life is the ministry. Could Joyce and Dave Meyer live more frugally? I suppose. But making her out to be the things that self-described Christians here have alleged (much of it without any real knowledge of the facts) is really shameful IMO. Or embarrassing.

Can't we do better than that? Like actually investigating a bit before shooting off our mouths? Like not immediately thinking the worst? Like not engaging in character assassination by association (as was done)? Like not working so hard to find fault in matters of incidental importance (as was also done)?

 

[Rev Randy]

Heretic hunters are on my least liked list.
That guys taking text out of context, how low can he get?
You think she's a bad person for having a private plane?
I guess I don't.
Because if I'm going to condemn her than I need
to condemn you and me too.
We have WAY more than we need...
Where do we draw the line? at our own possessions,
no higher or youre greedy? lol.
kwim?
Then there's the example of how God blessed a man who He was pleased with
King Solomon you greedy example of prosperity ...

Nah, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon yet.
Now the toilet seat, that's where I draw the line

What she has does not concern me. How she came to get it does. Saying it would not bother you when someone takes the reward of giving away too literal or even as a reason for giving is what concerns me. Rich? Hey we are all rich in the US in comparison to others in third world countries. Being so self centered as to wear a suit of clothing only once isn't about being rich. It's about self centeredness. Not caring if someone gives you their rent money and gets put out on the street is also self centered. Thinking it's all about me getting blessed is the same. Our reward is not on this earth. Yes we can be blessed while here but if we rely on that as our spiritual awareness or spiritual worth in the eyes of God, we are not aware at all.
The Beatitudes seem relevant suddenly.
You may think my issue is with Joyce. You'd be wrong. It goes much deeper than her. She's simply an imperfect woman attempting to serve God in good conscience. It also has nothing to do with her being a woman as i think her ministry, being focused on teaching women is the proper manner. It's the impersonal manner of the ministry. As human beings we need the touch, the hug and the laying on of hands. If she was merely gathering people into the fold, I would not speak a single word against this. But she is actually shepherding.
If I seem angry, your reading me wrong. I'm passionate about this subject. It's not from some theological standpoint either but from direct knowledge.
Between the time I was a baptist pastor and before coming to Orthodoxy, I learned about the liturgy from a very famous christian speaker who was also a bishop of a group. I'd already read quite a few of his books which i still consider good teachings. I attended their seminary (which was suspiciously short in duration and subject matter and was asked to walk with said bishop. He also did the mass gathering teachings in large arenas. He sold books tapes and the lot as well and collected a "love offering " to "support" the ministry ( in addition to the $35 cover-charge at the door before entering just like Joyce) of teaching. Me and another brother (now an anglo-catholic priest)were in charge of setting up the sound system and the lighting. All the while I listened intently to his teaching for which I am none the worse and maybe even better. The other brother went so far as to accept the bishops offer to invest in the speaking tour for a profit. That just didn't set right with me so I declined the same offer. After about a year, I went to the bishop as i was having an issue with accepting pay for ministry work(which was a fault I had).
He said something to me I'll never forget and it ended my walk with the bishop. He said, "What God has inspired me to say is mine to keep if I so desire and I am not about to simply give it away without being paid for it." About a month later he was defrocked for secretly getting a divorce and remarrying all within a month. About six months later the archbishop was found to be a thief (embezzling funds) and the whole shooting match fell to pieces. And that group is still in existence denying it all. Except most of the clergy moved on to something better. Guess what, the defrocked bishop still does the same dog and pony show and still calls himself a bishop but has been through another wife since then. Yep, still selling Jesus like a commodity and never for free. And my brother, the Anglo-catholic priest was left in debt to the tune of $75,000. Never made a dime and never shared in any of the profit as promised.
Be I right or wrong on Joyce, that is my reason for the passion. Well, enough of that.

 

[ziggy29]

When did envy become a Christian virtue? That's what most of this thread is about--tearing down someone whose life is the ministry. Could Joyce and Dave Meyer live more frugally? I suppose. But making her out to be the things that self-described Christians here have alleged (much of it without any real knowledge of the facts) is really shameful IMO. Or embarrassing.

I don't begrudge anyone something like a private plane, for example, if their ministry requires them to travel very frequently. It may be a necessity in order to do God's work and spread the Gospel.

However, if someone is still sitting on untold millions in personal wealth even after legitimate expenses toward furthering the ministry, then how much can they really be followed as "teachers" or "ministers" to us when they aren't eating their own cooking, so to speak, when it comes to Christ's teachings about the proper use of wealth?

I have no use for the "prosperity gospel" as it is commonly preached. Sure, become a success so that you have more means to do God's work, but don't think that the more of it you keep for yourself, the more you glorify God.

 

[squint]

Well, here's the point from my perspective (and then I'm done).

When did envy become a Christian virtue?

What does envy have to do with it? nice try though

That's what most of this thread is about--tearing down someone whose life is the ministry.

I have certainly contemplated setting my own financial life up in the 501C3 zone too.

Doing that in the Name of Jesus is imho a GREAT TAX scam. I should have done it years ago.

Could Joyce and Dave Meyer live more frugally? I suppose.

Do you even remotely think that any such constructs would include outside accountability?

Uh, never. Just as I would never allow my own tax free scams to come under outside accountability.

But making her out to be the things that self-described Christians here have alleged (much of it without any real knowledge of the facts) is really shameful IMO. Or embarrassing.

Or people don't know how to do simple Google searches and have poor reading comprehension skills. Let us NOT look at the fact that Senate investigations have been held on these folk, inclusive of J. Meyer for possible re-writes of legislation that is allowing this misfortune to transpire.

In Name of Haysues of course. Pardon me for an obviously jaded to the tax scam side of sights.

At this point all such ministries are in legal tax scam arena. If it ever changes I'd guess christianity itself may be vastly less profitable to some of the paid players.

Can't we do better than that? Like actually investigating a bit before shooting off our mouths?

Oh spare me.

If any 'common' author wrote a book or two and made a LOT of money, they too could set it up in various tax free corps and have much more fun than actually paying taxes. It's a WAY OF LIFE.

Like not immediately thinking the worst? Like not engaging in character assassination by association (as was done)? Like not working so hard to find fault in matters of incidental importance (as was also done)?

When it comes to 'motivational speaker' I'd take Tony Robbins any day.

I remain extremely suspicious of ALL political and priest class people by historical lessons superabundant, particularly when attached to a LOT of $$$ and POWER.

s

 

[Albion]

What does envy have to do with it? nice try though

I didn't think I needed to define envy.

I remain extremely suspicious of ALL political and priest class people by historical lessons superabundant, particularly when attached to a LOT of $$$ and POWER.

OK. I thought that was where you were coming from.

 

[Albion]

You may think my issue is with Joyce. You'd be wrong. It goes much deeper than her. She's simply an imperfect woman attempting to serve God in good conscience. It also has nothing to do with her being a woman as i think her ministry, being focused on teaching women is the proper manner.

Wow. What a reversal of the themes you were hammering home in post after post only a little while ago!

 

[squint]

I didn't think I needed to define envy.

If you think me envious of J. Meyer uh, no. Very much the opposite.

I am as familiar as I ever care to be again with both $ and power.

OK. I thought that was where you were coming from.

If you sense my distrust of power mongers of any flavor you would be very correct. Especially so when encountering religious nitwits who think they sit in my eternal judgment seat of whom J. Meyer is certainly one. In the name of Tax Free Jesus of course!
I'm not a fan of the owner of this site, having engaged him in his drifts as well, but he does call it like it is for the most part on a lot of subjects. A nice synopsis of J. Meyer for anyone who is interested in some of the finer points from a DOCTRINAL PERSPECTIVE which points always are more concerning to me than whatever legal tax scams she has going on.

And if not, listen on! You deserve it! Don't forget to send THAT CHECK TODAY, God bless ya's

Joyce Meyer | Joyce Meyer Preacher | Ministries | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

s

 

[Albion]

If you think me envious of J. Meyer uh, no. Very much the opposite.

I am as familiar as I ever care to be again with both $ and power.

In truth, it was the tone of a number of posts that I had in mind, not something about you personally.

If you sense my distrust of power mongers of any flavor you would be very correct. Especially so when encountering religious nitwits who think they sit in my eternal judgment seat of whom J. Meyer is certainly one.

Well then, tell us why you think she fits that description.

I'm not a fan of the owner of this site, having engaged him in his drifts as well, but he does call it like it is for the most part on a lot of subjects. A nice synopsis of J. Meyer for anyone who is interested in some of the finer points from a DOCTRINAL PERSPECTIVE which points always are more concerning to me than whatever legal tax scams she has going on.

Yes, but this was addressed earlier. The idea that she is pushing some identifiable doctrine is ridiculous. You'd have to listen to a dozen TV hours, very intently, to even pick up what her theological slant or denominational orientation is. I''ve listened to quite a few, and it's overwhelmingly generic Christianity.

Talking about Joyce Meyer in terms of her personal religious belief, other than for the standard beliefs of all normal Christians, is very hard to do. Her telecasts and lectures do not go that way but rather are about personal problems, women's issues, albeit with a Christian orientation. If we were talking about John Hagee or Doug Bachelder, well, that would be completely different.

 

[sunlover1]

What she has does not concern me. How she came to get it does. Saying it would not bother you when someone takes the reward of giving away too literal or even as a reason for giving is what concerns me. Rich? Hey we are all rich in the US in comparison to others in third world countries. Being so self centered as to wear a suit of clothing only once isn't about being rich. It's about self centeredness. Not caring if someone gives you their rent money and gets put out on the street is also self centered. Thinking it's all about me getting blessed is the same. Our reward is not on this earth. Yes we can be blessed while here but if we rely on that as our spiritual awareness or spiritual worth in the eyes of God, we are not aware at all.
The Beatitudes seem relevant suddenly.

Hi RR.
Self centeredness is not a fruit of Spirit.
IS she self centered? I'm not sure. I don't really know that much
about her.
Am I self centered? In so many ways, yes, I have to admit that I can be.
I can't judge what the rent money thing was about because it was taken out of context.

I'm probably the last person you want to talk to about financial things .
I try to "give no thought". And I realize that's going to come off as "irresponsible"
But once again, I view it the same as I do health issues.
He really IS the God who healeth us, He really IS the God
who provides ALL of my needs.

So to me, money is not something I spend a lot of energy on.
Poverty is a spiritual problem, not a money problem.
We can give money, but that won't fix the problem
the gospel is what will "fix" the problem:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he hath anointed me to
preach the gospel to the poor;
he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach

We can put all of our trust in God.. So if someone's poor,
IMO, all they need to do is go to God and find out whatup
with that.
He really will provide all we need.

You may think my issue is with Joyce. You'd be wrong. It goes much deeper than her. She's simply an imperfect woman attempting to serve God in good conscience. It also has nothing to do with her being a woman as i think her ministry, being focused on teaching women is the proper manner. It's the impersonal manner of the ministry. As human beings we need the touch, the hug and the laying on of hands. If she was merely gathering people into the fold, I would not speak a single word against this. But she is actually shepherding.

No problem!
Again we do view this differently because
our definition of "The church" is different.

If I seem angry, your reading me wrong.

Not at all! No worries at all.

I'm passionate about this subject

That's fine, and I'm not a fangirl of Joyces , so no worries.

. It's not from some theological standpoint either but from direct knowledge.
Between the time I was a baptist pastor and before coming to Orthodoxy, I learned about the liturgy from a very famous christian speaker who was also a bishop of a group. I'd already read quite a few of his books which i still consider good teachings. I attended their seminary (which was suspiciously short in duration and subject matter and was asked to walk with said bishop. He also did the mass gathering teachings in large arenas. He sold books tapes and the lot as well and collected a "love offering " to "support" the ministry ( in addition to the $35 cover-charge at the door before entering just like Joyce) of teaching. Me and another brother (now an anglo-catholic priest)were in charge of setting up the sound system and the lighting. All the while I listened intently to his teaching for which I am none the worse and maybe even better. The other brother went so far as to accept the bishops offer to invest in the speaking tour for a profit. That just didn't set right with me so I declined the same offer. After about a year, I went to the bishop as i was having an issue with accepting pay for ministry work(which was a fault I had).
He said something to me I'll never forget and it ended my walk with the bishop. He said, "What God has inspired me to say is mine to keep if I so desire and I am not about to simply give it away without being paid for it." About a month later he was defrocked for secretly getting a divorce and remarrying all within a month. About six months later the archbishop was found to be a thief (embezzling funds) and the whole shooting match fell to pieces. And that group is still in existence denying it all. Except most of the clergy moved on to something better. Guess what, the defrocked bishop still does the same dog and pony show and still calls himself a bishop but has been through another wife since then. Yep, still selling Jesus like a commodity and never for free. And my brother, the Anglo-catholic priest was left in debt to the tune of $75,000. Never made a dime and never shared in any of the profit as promised.

Eck!
I hope you can forgive him.
Glad you were not pulled in.
There's a strong warfare against ministries.
Riches, pride and sex are two of the most commonly
seen baits with men and women of God.
Hope Joyce isn't a cheat.

Be I right or wrong on Joyce, that is my reason for the passion. Well, enough of that.

Right.
Well I have no problem with folks having lots of money.
UNLESS it will have their heart and they'll lose everything.
(Like your ex friend could if things don't change)

 

[squint]

In truth, it was the tone of a number of posts that I had in mind, not something about you personally.

Well thanks for clarifying.

Well then, tell us why you think she fits that description.

If you do not know my basic modus operandi when encountering any christian, particularly of the higher powers of authority, but even here it is this first and foremost:

hmmm? I wonder how this person is going to figure out how to eternally burn me alive or eternally kill me?

I hope you find this flavor in all of my posts because that is exactly where I go first.

Is Meyer an exception to this standard of Christian discourse? Uh, entirely NO. In fact she get's to do so using tax free donations.

Yes, but this was addressed earlier. The idea that she is pushing some identifiable doctrine is ridiculous. You'd have to listen to a dozen TV hours, very intently, to even pick up what her theological slant or denominational orientation is. I''ve listened to quite a few, and it's overwhelmingly generic Christianity.

I'd agree that most of her stuff is in the arena of 'self helps.' But give her half a chance and she'd sling another believer into hell with the best of 'em. I bet I could raise her hackles in an honest conversation about it in a short period of time. This stuff doesn't sell too well on TV though. Better to stay in the 'let me tell you how to run your life' zone.

If she was really really honest she'd be telling us how to set up the tax free 501C3 corp first and foremost as that is exactly where she herself SCORES.

But none will be hearing THAT MUCH truth now will they A? No. Let's be real here.

Talking about Joyce Meyer in terms of her personal religious belief, other than for the standard beliefs of all normal Christians, is very hard to do. Her telecasts and lectures do not go that way but rather are about personal problems, women's issues, albeit with a Christian orientation. If we were talking about John Hagee or Doug Bachelder, well, that would be completely different.

There are a lot of what I call 'dynamic' and 'charismatic' personalities in the religious arena. I really am OK with it.

After all it's a free country. People can believe whatever they want.

s