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What Did The ECF Believe About End Times

BABerean2

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Actually, dispensationalism is BASED ON the new covenant.

The above is another interesting claim.

When asked to show what you have written in your books about the New Covenant, all we have heard is silence, and all we have seen provided by you is nothing.

The whole time my wife and I were members of a Dispensational church body, we never heard any mention of the New Covenant in a Sunday-School lesson or sermon.

Go on YouTube and search for a sermon on the New Covenant done by a Dispensationalist.
If you do find anything they will probably claim it is not now in effect, because they claim it only pertains to "Israel", instead of the Church.

At one time my present church body used Sunday-School materials from Union Gospel Press.

Union Gospel Press :: Home

Union Gospel Press :: Statement of Faith

It was their claim that the New Covenant was intended for the nation of Israel, in the future.
They also included passages from the Babylonian Talmud on a regular basis.
We no longer use their materials.

We now use "The Gospel Project".
It contains specific lessons on the New Covenant.
https://www.gospelproject.com/


.

 
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jgr

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You are the one who needs to go back and re-read this book. I challenge you to produce even one statement by any dispensational teacher that anyone will ever be saved "outside of the church." This is not a term that I have ever come across, even once, in almost sixty years of studying dispensational teaching. The only place I have ever ever met this term is in your continual ranting here.

But you are conflating soteriology with eschatology.

As you very well know, dispensationalists teach, and very clearly teach, that since the time that Jesus died, the sins of no individual will ever be remitted without a true and living faith in the blood Jesus shed at Calvary. Some claim that John Hagee denies this, but if he does, he is not a true dispensationalist.

You apparently define "the church" as "all who trust in the blood Jesus shed at Calvary." If this were indeed a correct definition of the church, then dispensationalists would indeed believe that the future Israelites would be part of "the church," and thus would not be saved "outside of the church."

But dispensationalists do not agree with your definition of "the church." They define "the church" as that group of individuals that at the present time trust in the blood Jesus shed at Calvary. They believe that the church will be physically removed from this planet, and that any who at a later time trust in that same blood Jesus shed at Calvary will be classified as a different group. They will still be considered sons or daughters of God, even as those who trust today, but they will be simply be part of a different group, the first part of which we sometimes call "tribulation saints." And we call the second part "Israel," because that is what God calls it.

We believe, because the scriptures explicitly state it in very many places, that after that the church is removed from this earth God will again bring all Israel back to their ancient homeland, and there bring them to a true and living faith in Jesus, including a faith in the blood He shed at Calvary. So the fact that we consider these Israelites as a different group from those that trust in that same blood today is not some kind of a different soteriology. It is simply a detail of eschatological belief.

Thus, your pretension that this is some kind of a heretical doctrine that anyone could ever be saved without faith in the blood Jesus shed at Calvary is disingenuous. And the fact that you maintain this pretension even after having had this pointed out in the past reveals a basic and fundamental dishonesty underlying your entire campaign against dispensationalism. I do not know, nor do I judge, whether this dishonesty is a conscious attempt to deceive, or is merely what we sometimes call "intellectual dishonesty" that is, a matter of deceiving yourself. But either way, it is obviously there.

You have never yet explained how God can distinguish an Israel whose physical DNA is now genetically present within the entirety of humanity.

Dispensationalism's survival depends upon its success in racializing the Word of God.

Except that the physical DNA which it is depending upon for its racialization success can no longer be isolated from any other physical DNA.

Which leaves only one DNA remaining which can be isolated.

It is known as spiritual DNA, and it is recognizable exclusively by two spiritual traits.

Faith and obedience, and nothing else.

Trust and obey.

There's no other way.


Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity
 
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Biblewriter

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You have never yet explained how God can distinguish an Israel whose physical DNA is now genetically present within the entirety of humanity.

Dispensationalism's survival depends upon its success in racializing the Word of God.

Except that the physical DNA which it is depending upon for its racialization success can no longer be isolated from any other physical DNA.

Which leaves only one DNA remaining which can be isolated.

It is known as spiritual DNA, and it is recognizable exclusively by two spiritual traits.

Faith and obedience, and nothing else.

Trust and obey.

There's no other way.


Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Arabs of Jewish Descent in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity
It is not "radicalizing" to simply believe what the scriptures explicitly say. DNA is no problem for the God that designed it.
 
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BABerean2

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It is not "radicalizing" to simply believe what the scriptures explicitly say. DNA is no problem for the God that designed it.

Mat 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:


1Ti_1:4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

.
 
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jgr

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It is not "radicalizing" to simply believe what the scriptures explicitly say. DNA is no problem for the God that designed it.
Still haven't discarded those faulty spectacles. The word is "racializing" not "radicalizing", although the first does precipitate the second as well.

Dispensationalism seeks to racialize and radicalize the Word of God by using its replacement ideology to replace spiritual DNA with physical DNA.

But the Scriptures explicitly say that the spiritual DNA of faith and obedience is the only DNA that God recognizes.
 
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Biblewriter

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Still haven't discarded those faulty spectacles. The word is "racializing" not "radicalizing", although the first does precipitate the second as well.

Dispensationalism seeks to racialize and radicalize the Word of God by using its replacement ideology to replace spiritual DNA with physical DNA.

But the Scriptures explicitly say that the spiritual DNA of faith and obedience is the only DNA that God recognizes.
Thank you for your correction. - Sorry about that. But the scriptures most certainly do not say that the DNA of faith is the only DNA that God recognizes. They say something you choose to interpret to mean that. But they do not say that.
 
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Choose Wisely

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You have never yet explained how God can distinguish an Israel whose physical DNA is now genetically present within the entirety of humanity.
LOL. So he is supposed to know what God knows or we shouldn't believe what God says. That's not going to happen.
Romans 11
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Your lack of faith in God's abilities has no bounds. Do you think God is confused just because you can't figure it out?
 
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BABerean2

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LOL. So he is supposed to know what God knows or we shouldn't believe what God says. That's not going to happen.
Romans 11
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Your lack of faith in God's abilities has no bounds. Do you think God is confused just because you can't figure it out?

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.

Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

.
 
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jgr

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Thank you for your correction. - Sorry about that.

Apology appreciated and accepted.

But the scriptures most certainly do not say that the DNA of faith is the only DNA that God recognizes. They say something you choose to interpret to mean that. But they do not say that.

Galatians 3
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

What other DNA does God recognize?
 
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keras

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Your lack of faith in God's abilities has no bounds. Do you think God is confused just because you can't figure it out?
Do you think that God will make it all to fit your beliefs?
Your insistence of a continuing Jewish Israel, is contrary to all the NT teachings, of Salvation being available to all who will accept it.
Ethnicity or DNA has no value or significance whatever. Ephesians 2:11-18
 
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Do you think that God will make it all to fit your beliefs?
Oh no. I think He will do exactly what He says He would do.
Your insistence of a continuing Jewish Israel, is contrary to all the NT teachings, of Salvation being available to all who will accept it.
It was not on my insistence that Jewish Israel was restored. It was restored on His insistence. And very weak straw man attempt with the salvation being available to those who accept it comment.
Ethnicity or DNA has no value or significance whatever. Ephesians 2:11-18
LOL, I'm not the one with the DNA hangup. God will do exactly what He says He will do and no twisting of scriptures will change that fact.
 
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jgr

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It was not on my insistence that Jewish Israel was restored.

If it's Jewish Israel, it must be populated by the following:

Romans 2
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Is it?
 
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BABerean2

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LOL, I'm not the one with the DNA hangup. God will do exactly what He says He will do and no twisting of scriptures will change that fact.

Mat 1:1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "AND TO YOUR SEED," who is Christ.

.
 
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BABerean2

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[Staff edit].

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.


The Church did not replace Israel.
Part of Israel became the Church on the Day of Pentecost.


Romans 9:6-8, Romans 9:27, Romans 11:1-5



.
 
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Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.


The Church did not replace Israel.
Part of Israel became the Church on the Day of Pentecost.


Romans 9:6-8, Romans 9:27, Romans 11:1-5

.
Ouch..........
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 
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The Church did not replace Israel.
.

I know. Now make 13,067 posts where you admit that, so you can cancel out this nonsense you have been posting. I think you can get this done in short order as you are well accomplished in the art of cut and paste.
 
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DavidPT

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Ouch..........
John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



If you initially have two folds, and that the goal is this---and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd---what should that be telling someone?
 
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jgr

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It was not on my insistence that Jewish Israel was restored.

If it's Jewish Israel, it must be populated by the following:

Romans 2
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Is it?

Or is it this?

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Revelation 3
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
 
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If you initially have two folds, and that the goal is this---and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd---what should that be telling someone?
It should be telling someone that both folds are being brought in to one fold.
 
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Or is it this?

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Revelation 3
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Or this..................
Rev 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

And this.............
Rev 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
 
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