What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

[guuila]

So the atonement was made available for every single person. Was the atonement ever actually made for anyone?

Therefore you believe in a limited atonement as much as I do, maybe more... And I quote:



One question:
Is the intercessory work of Christ as our High Priest a separate work apart from His death on the cross as the sacrificial lamb?

Yep. In Arminianism, Christ's atonement didn't actually save anyone. It merely made men savable.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Yes - Christ takes away the sin of the world.

The believing world. The sin of unbelievers has not been taken away. Otherwise, Christ's statement, "If you believe not that I am you shall die in your sins," is meaningless.

 

[Jack Terrence]

Galatians 3:7

Understand, then, that those with faith are children of Abraham.

Understand then that the promises are for the children of Abraham and no one else. Paul said that the remission of sins and the promises are "for US their children." This implies that they had been children of faith already. Paul said that the Gospel message is "from faith to faith." Otherwise, Paul could not have identified them as "children" when preaching to them. The seed of faith must have been in them all along.

Where does is say that Paul would have nothing more to do with them?

"But since you reject it we turn to the Gentiles" (13:46).

See if you can find a narrative in Acts where the apostles sought out the Jewish leadership after that. They didn't. They went into the synagogues and preached to the common people. The synagogues were for the common people. And Paul told the Corinthians that they "PREACH Christ a stumbling block" to them. Will you continue to revise biblical history?

 

[Jack Terrence]

Right, finally it is established that the gospel you preach is different to that which Arminians preach.

Of course! The gospel the Arminians preach is for those who are not Abraham's children. The gospel the Calvinists preach is "for US their children."

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Understand then that the promises are for the children of Abraham and no one else. Paul said that the remission of sins and the promises are "for US their children." This implies that they had been children of faith already. Paul said that the Gospel message is "from faith to faith." Otherwise, Paul could not have identified them as "children" when preaching to them. The seed of faith must have been in them all along.

It might also be worth mentioning (in light of the atonement discussion going on) that in Galatians 3:13-14, the redemption Christ secured is specifically for the seed of Abraham i.e. children by faith v26.

 

[Jack Terrence]

It might also be worth mentioning (in light of the atonement discussion going on) that in Galatians 3:13-14, the redemption Christ secured is specifically for the seed of Abraham i.e. children by faith v26.

Furthermore, the Galatians were child-heirs (minors) before they had come to faith in Christ. By faith they became [adult] Sons. 4:1-6

 

[janxharris]

The believing world. The sin of unbelievers has not been taken away. Otherwise, Christ's statement, "If you believe not that I am you shall die in your sins," is meaningless.

Where does it say in John 1 that 'world' means 'believers' or 'the elect'?

Why would John 8:24 not make sense?

 

[janxharris]

Understand then that the promises are for the children of Abraham and no one else. Paul said that the remission of sins and the promises are "for US their children." This implies that they had been children of faith already. Paul said that the Gospel message is "from faith to faith." Otherwise, Paul could not have identified them as "children" when preaching to them. The seed of faith must have been in them all along.

I'm not following this. Sorry.

"But since you reject it we turn to the Gentiles" (13:46).

See if you can find a narrative in Acts where the apostles sought out the Jewish leadership after that. They didn't. They went into the synagogues and preached to the common people. The synagogues were for the common people. And Paul told the Corinthians that they "PREACH Christ a stumbling block" to them. Will you continue to revise biblical history?

Paul never said he would not preach the gospel to the Jewish leadership, or any other group of men for that matter, though it is true that he was appointed to be the apostle to the Gentiles. I have no idea why you are pursuing this point.

 

[janxharris]

Of course! The gospel the Arminians preach is for those who are not Abraham's children. The gospel the Calvinists preach is "for US their children."

And we know that faith can be exercised by anyone, including your good self Boxer. That is good news.

John 3:16

'World' is never explicitly used to mean 'elect'.

 

[janxharris]

Furthermore, the Galatians were child-heirs (minors) before they had come to faith in Christ. By faith they became [adult] Sons. 4:1-6

?

 

[Skala]

Where does it say in John 1 that 'world' means 'believers' or 'the elect'?

Why would John 8:24 not make sense?

When it says that Christ took away the sins of the world, did the author intend for you to conclude that nobody has any sins leftover to be paid for, and thus nobody can possibly go to hell?

If not, then you can't use this verse to support your own soteriology, either. And you certainly can't use it to refute Limited Atonement.

 

[janxharris]

So if "world" in v19 is every single man, woman and child with no qualification, who is the "us" and "we" in v21?

And if it be every single man, woman and child with no qualification, then what about what most commentators make of where it was derived from?

Gal. 3:13 - Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree.”

Verse 18 - Believers are given the ministry of reconciliation
Verse 19 - God, through Christ was reconciling the whole world to Himself - not just humanity - don't forget that all of creation is in bondage and decay (Romans 3:21). God committed to believers this task.
Verse 20 - Very similar to v.11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others.

To answer your question - the 'us' and 'we' in v.21 are believers and God has tasked them with the ministry of reconciliation to 'the world' (v.19)

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[guuila]

'World' is never explicitly used to mean 'elect'.

Please acknowledge your error. I'm getting tired of correcting it.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

To answer your question - the 'us' and 'we' in v.21 are believers and God has tasked them with the ministry of reconciliation to 'the world' (v.19)

21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

So then, if the 'us' and 'we' in v21 are believers, and believers are synonymously titled the elect, then we could read it in this way:

God made Him who had no sin to be sin for [the elect], so that in Him [the elect] might become the righteousness of God in Him.

I think this would be your view, accordingly.

 

[Jack Terrence]

I'm not following this. Sorry.

Why can you not understand it? Charis kai Dunamis understood it. Only the children of Abraham have the ability to believe. Paul said that God fulfilled the promises to "US their children." This implies that Paul's hearers were the children of Abraham which implies that they had the seed of faith in them. Paul said that the Gospel brings men "from faith to faith."

Jesus said that some men are not the children of Abraham. Therefore, the seed of faith is not in them, and God did not fulfill the promises to them. Men CANNOT move from unbelief to faith. They move from faith to faith.

Cornelius was an example of a man who moves from faith to faith. He believed in the God of the Hebrews and he obeyed the angel who told him to send for Peter. This is NOT unbelief my friend. This is faith! When Peter came to Cornelius and preached Christ Cornelius believed. So, Cornelius moved from faith in the covenant God to faith in Christ specifically.

Paul never said he would not preach the gospel to the Jewish leadership, or any other group of men for that matter, though it is true that he was appointed to be the apostle to the Gentiles. I have no idea why you are pursuing this point.

You did not deal with my point. After Paul said to the Jewish leadership, "we turn to the Gentiles," he never went to them again. Find a narrative in Acts where he did. He preached Christ as a "stumbling block" to them.

You have failed to substantiate your claims from the scriptures.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

And we know that faith can be exercised by anyone, including your good self Boxer. That is good news.

John 3:16

'World' is never explicitly used to mean 'elect'.

Are you citing John 3:16 as a proof text that "faith can be exercised by anyone"? Can you please show how v16 proves this point?

 

[janxharris]

Why can you not understand it? Charis kai Dunamis understood it. Only the children of Abraham have the ability to believe.

Where does scripture say that?

Paul said that God fulfilled the promises to "US their children." This implies that Paul's hearers were the children of Abraham which implies that they had the seed of faith in them.

Could you provide the scripture please?

Paul said that the Gospel brings men "from faith to faith."

Can you elaborate please.

Jesus said that some men are not the children of Abraham. Therefore, the seed of faith is not in them, and God did not fulfill the promises to them. Men CANNOT move from unbelief to faith. They move from faith to faith.

Which you have not shown.

Cornelius was an example of a man who moves from faith to faith. He believed in the God of the Hebrews and he obeyed the angel who told him to send for Peter. This is NOT unbelief my friend. This is faith! When Peter came to Cornelius and preached Christ Cornelius believed. So, Cornelius moved from faith in the covenant God to faith in Christ specifically.

Cornelius was a Godly man - yes.

You did not deal with my point. After Paul said to the Jewish leadership, "we turn to the Gentiles," he never went to them again. Find a narrative in Acts where he did. He preached Christ as a "stumbling block" to them.

You have failed to substantiate your claims from the scriptures.

As I have already said, Paul did not say to the Jewish leadership, 'we turn to the Gentiles', for Paul was speaking to Jews in general.

Paul spoke in a Jewish synagogue in the very next chapter despite his mission to the Gentiles. I don't know if any Jewish leaders were present or not - but Paul did not say that he would not preach to them.

I still don't fully understand why you are pursuing this angle. The fact is that the apostles preached the good news to unbelievers. 1 Corinthians 15:11b this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

 

[janxharris]

Please acknowledge your error. I'm getting tired of correcting it.

I don't acknowledge any error.

 

[guuila]

I don't acknowledge any error.

You keep asserting that world, or kosmos, can't possibly be used to refer to the elect. The Greek concordance disagrees with you. But hey, go ahead and remain in error. Makes me no difference.

 

[guuila]

I guess this was overlooked.

It is good news that every man has access to eternal life.

Correction: in this case had access. God looked into time and saw this guy would totally blow it. Then God created him knowing full well he'd go to hell. So you need to be honest and say "He HAD access." That is unless you're an Open Theist. Now he's alive, going to hell, and can't possibly do anything else. He has no hope. I guess you have the same problem the Calvinists do, eh?