What did Paul preach to the Corinthians?

[janxharris]

1 Corinthians 15:1-5
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,​

In verse 3 he says, 'For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures'. When he initially preached to them, he could not have said that Christ died for believers sins, or Christ did not die for all men - verse 3 simply does not allow for it. On the contrary, Paul says in verse 1, '...I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you...'. Paul wants to remind them of what he said. What did he say? He said:

'...Christ died for our sins...'

 

[Hammster]

I don't think he was lying.

 

[janxharris]

I don't think he was lying.

Right.

So what did he say to the Corinthians when he initially preached to them? What did he say to the crowd that included non-believers?

 

[sdowney717]

Janx,

"our sins" here mean the group of believers.

How about this.

Romans 12:3
New King James Version (NKJV)

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

King James Version (KJV)

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. So following you logic does that include the unsaved persons?

Paul says this to those of the believing group that God has dealt to them their faith, don't you think so? Like a game of cards, handed out, all have differing hands.

 

[Hammster]

Right.

So what did he say to the Corinthians when he initially preached to them? What did he say to the crowd that included non-believers?

He doesn't say. But to tell a group of believers that Christ died for our sins is normative language.

Janx, Christ died for our sins.

 

[janxharris]

Janx,

"our sins" here mean the group of believers.

Paul reminds them of what he said to them when he initially preached to them. He would have been preaching to a number of non-believers. He said: Christ died for our sins.

True or false?

Romans 12:3
New King James Version (NKJV)

King James Version (KJV)


God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. So following you logic does that include the unsaved persons?

Paul says this to those of the believing group that God has dealt to them their faith, don't you think so? Like a game of cards, handed out, all have differing hands.

I think Paul's focus is on the spiritual gifts we have been given. We put our faith in Christ and then God blesses us with different gifts. So, 'in accordance witht the faith God has distributed to each of you' equates to 'We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us'.

For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

 

[sdowney717]

Jesus said if you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could move mountains.
The point is not really the quantity of our faith that God has dealt us, but that He has dealt us our faith, and it only takes a little faith because it is God who does the miracles and He is the author of our faith.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Source of this faith comes from Jesus and God, not of ourselves. We cooperate with God because He makes us willing, giving us a new heart to know Him. And He is glad and willing to give us His kingdom.

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

So who are the 'you' that Jesus mentions.

 

[janxharris]

He doesn't say. But to tell a group of believers that Christ died for our sins is normative language.

Janx, Christ died for our sins.

So Paul tells the Corinthians that he wants to remind them of what he preached to them and then proceeds to do so, and yet you still claim that he doesn't say what it is he said to them?

No Hammster, it is clear that Paul told those that did not believe that Christ 'died for our sins.'

It is also clear that you would never say this. Would you tell us what you would say? It should include the words 'Christ', 'sins' and 'died'.

 

[janxharris]

Jesus said if you had faith as a grain of mustard seed, you could move mountains.
The point is not really the quantity of our faith that God has dealt us, but that He has dealt us our faith, and it only takes a little faith because it is God who does the miracles and He is the author of our faith.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Source of this faith comes from Jesus and God, not of ourselves. We cooperate with God because He makes us willing, giving us a new heart to know Him. And He is glad and willing to give us His kingdom.

Please would you address my post. Thanks.

So who are the 'you' that Jesus mentions.

Believers.

 

[Hammster]

So Paul tells the Corinthians that he wants to remind them of what he preached to them and then proceeds to do so, and yet you still claim that he doesn't say what it is he said to them?

No Hammster, it is clear that Paul told those that did not believe that Christ 'died for our sins.'

It is also clear that you would never say this. Would you tell us what you would say? It should include the words 'Christ', 'sins' and 'died'.

If I'm talking to believers I would say that Christ died for our sins. Paul is talking to a group that he has a relationship with.

 

[janxharris]

If I'm talking to believers I would say that Christ died for our sins. Paul is talking to a group that he has a relationship with.

Okay, but when Paul initially preached to them there would have been non-believers present. What would you say to such a crowd regarding 'Christ', 'died' and 'sins'?

 

[Hammster]

Okay, but when Paul initially preached to them there would have been non-believers present. What would you say to such a crowd regarding 'Christ', 'died' and 'sins'?

Christ died for sinners. You are a sinner. To receive forgiveness for your sins you must repent of your sins believe on The Lord Jesus Christ.

Later I could say that I preached that Christ died for our sins. And it would be true.

 

[OzSpen]

He doesn't say. But to tell a group of believers that Christ died for our sins is normative language.

Janx, Christ died for our sins.

That only believers are mentioned in 1 Cor 15:3, 'Christ died for our sins', is because of the grammar and semantics of writing a letter to anyone. When the Bible uses 'our', 'us', and 'we' regarding the atonement, it does this because this is the group of people that a writer (in this case, Paul) is addressing.

Such a verse as 1 Cor 15:3 is not addressing all of those for whom there has been provision of atonement; it is speaking to those for whom there has been an application of the atonement. Here in 1 Cor 15:3, Paul is addressing a few to whom the atonement has been applied, so he uses the language of 'our sins'.

This is simple etiquette. When I'm writing to my friends and use 'our', I'm referring to them and me exclusively, so 'our' is appropriate. That is what Paul is doing here in 1 Cor 15:3. Paul is not making a statement about 'our sins' meaning limited atonement.

We know this because elsewhere in the NT, we have confirmation that God loves all people, Christ died for the sins of all people, and that God is not willing that any people should perish (Jn 3:16; 1 Tim 2:4-6; Tit 2:11; 2 Pt 2:1; 3:9).

In Christ,
Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Christ died for sinners. You are a sinner. To receive forgiveness for your sins you must repent of your sins believe on The Lord Jesus Christ.

Later I could say that I preached that Christ died for our sins. And it would be true.

In your first sentence, 'Christ died for sinners', are you affirming that Christ died for ALL sinners?

 

[Hammster]

That only believers are mentioned in 1 Cor 15:3, 'Christ died for our sins', is because of the grammar and semantics of writing a letter to anyone. When the Bible uses 'our', 'us', and 'we' regarding the atonement, it does this because this is the group of people that a writer (in this case, Paul) is addressing.

Such a verse as 1 Cor 15:3 is not addressing all of those for whom there has been provision of atonement; it is speaking to those for whom there has been an application of the atonement. Here in 1 Cor 15:3, Paul is addressing a few to whom the atonement has been applied, so he uses the language of 'our sins'.

This is simple etiquette. When I'm writing to my friends and use 'our', I'm referring to them and me exclusively, so 'our' is appropriate. That is what Paul is doing here in 1 Cor 15:3. Paul is not making a statement about 'our sins' meaning limited atonement.

We know this because elsewhere in the NT, we have confirmation that God loves all people, Christ died for the sins of all people, and that God is not willing that any people should perish (Jn 3:16; 1 Tim 2:4-6; Tit 2:11; 2 Pt 2:1; 3:9).

In Christ,
Oz

I'm not making an argument for limited atonement based on this passage. So you post is a red herring. And your list of verses are taken out of context.

 

[Hammster]

In your first sentence, 'Christ died for sinners', are you affirming that Christ died for ALL sinners?

Read it again.

 

[OzSpen]

If I'm talking to believers I would say that Christ died for our sins. Paul is talking to a group that he has a relationship with.

So are you affirming or denying limited atonement with this kind of statement?

 

[janxharris]

Christ died for sinners. You are a sinner. To receive forgiveness for your sins you must repent of your sins believe on The Lord Jesus Christ.

Those in the crowd would, without doubt, think that Christ died for their sins Hammster, so you have (unintentionally, I'm sure) mislead them. Saying 'Christ died for sinners. You are a sinner', to a crowd unversed in the nuances of the doctrines of Grace would mean that they would naturally put two and two together.

They would also all think that they could repent and believe. Mislead again.

Someone from the crowd shouts out:
'Hey, mister preacher, did Christ die for all our sins? Did he die for my sins? 'Cos I have heard that some preachers believe that Christ died for a select group and not all men?'

 

[Hammster]

So are you affirming or denying limited atonement with this kind of statement?

Neither, really. I'm just stating a fact.

 

[Hammster]

Those in the crowd would, without doubt, think that Christ died for their sins Hammster, so you have (unintentionally, I'm sure) mislead them. Saying 'Christ died for sinners. You are a sinner', to a crowd unversed in the nuances of the doctrines of Grace would mean that they would naturally put two and two together.

I haven't mislead them. I'm not a universalist.

They would also all think that they could repent and believe. Mislead again.

Not at all. If they did, they would be saved.

Someone from the crowd shouts out:
'Hey, mister preacher, did Christ die for all our sins? Did he die for my sins? 'Cos I have heard that some preachers believe that Christ died for a select group and not all men?'

I would respect that Christ for sinners and that they need to repent and believe. If they don't, then it's obvious that Christ didn't die for them.