What did Jesus mean when he said to turn the other cheek?

[Joykins]

Here are some examples of getting hit:

* an nonviolent bystander assaulted by police during a demonstration or riot

* a woman abused by her husband

* a child taking a way a toy from and slugging her sibling

* a soldier fighting with the enemy

How could the cheek-turning be accomplished for any of the above scenarios, and what would the likely results be?

And do we think that Jesus cared more about the results, or about the effect of our non-resistance of violence on our character?

 

[AngelusSax]

Jesus accurately described the method of Synagogue excommunication in His day, and then told His followers to turn the other cheek. He's saying, if someone offends you or kicks you out of their place of worship because of me, then let them have another shot at you to show them you're not embarrassed.

That's my take. He wasn't telling a woman to stay in an abusive relationship or something like that.

 

[Joykins]

AngelusSax, do you have a reference to that? I am finding it interesting.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Here are some examples of getting hit:

* an nonviolent bystander assaulted by police during a demonstration or riot

* a woman abused by her husband

* a child taking a way a toy from and slugging her sibling

* a soldier fighting with the enemy

How could the cheek-turning be accomplished for any of the above scenarios, and what would the likely results be?

And do we think that Jesus cared more about the results, or about the effect of our non-resistance of violence on our character?

Bystander assulted by police...Just suck it up and try to be more aware of where you are in the future.Wearing a uniform doesn't prevent mob mentality.I once saw a news item about a klu klux klan parade where enraged black people attacked a klan marcher. A black woman jumped on top of him,covering him and protecting him from the assult... Woman abused by her husband. I personally hate this. I donn't believe as some do that a woman should just take it. I believe she should get to a shelter,and get counseling,and get away from the lunatic she married,before she is killed. This act would save him from becoming a murderer.Sibling rivalry,spank the offending child. There are limits to behavior. It's our duty to teach these,as it is written.Soldier fighting with the enemy.,If he is Christian,why is he killing other men? Christians are to bring the gospel to the world.If you kill an unrepentant sinner,you send that one to hell. You have taken away his chance for salvation.We are saved and so we are not afraid of the enemy. We are instructed to love our enemy.

 

[Scholar in training]

Jesus' command to "turn the other cheek" is best understood in its social context: that is, in terms of riposte (sigh, emphasizing social context becomes a bit bland over time).

If, however, the command is not about riposte but instead about the "moral highground" of failing to act in self-defense, then I can only conclude that his teaching was particularly cruel.

 

[AngelusSax]

Joykins,

Unfortunately, all I have at the time are Bible Study notes from our 6-month long "course" last year at church. I'll see if I can find anything online to reference it though.

 

[humbledbyhim]

Jesus accurately described the method of Synagogue excommunication in His day, and then told His followers to turn the other cheek. He's saying, if someone offends you or kicks you out of their place of worship because of me, then let them have another shot at you to show them you're not embarrassed.

That's my take. He wasn't telling a woman to stay in an abusive relationship or something like that.

Matthew 5



1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, 3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. 7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. 8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. 10Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. 38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Somebody tell me where He talks about some excommunication in this passage. Last I checked, smite meant strike not put out or excommunicated.

 

[humbledbyhim]

Here are some examples of getting hit:

* an nonviolent bystander assaulted by police during a demonstration or riot (Run because if you fight back you might get shot and arrested or charged with assault on a police officer)

* a woman abused by her husband (Run, such that you don't get beat anymore, and this might be grounds for divorce)

* a child taking a way a toy from and slugging her sibling ( Children wouldn't understand Jesus' command to turn other cheek in the first place)

* a soldier fighting with the enemy ( Last I heard, prayer protects a nation better that men with guns, but the leaders of countries don't listen to God like they should)

How could the cheek-turning be accomplished for any of the above scenarios, and what would the likely results be?

And do we think that Jesus cared more about the results, or about the effect of our non-resistance of violence on our character?

All of these situations could be avoided if Christian principles or plain old wit was exercised.
A better example would be if a man runs up to you and punches the crap out of you. What to do? Well, this happened to one of the ministers at my church, and he didn't hit the man back. In fact, the man realized that he had mistaken the minister for someone else. The man was dreadfully sorry, and the minister got an open opportunity to minister to the guy right there. If the minister had hit him back, one of those men would have likely been in the hospital or dead. (amuch worse scenario.) By restraining himself (which was hard to do b/c he used to be a violent drug dealer or not because Christ delivered him from his violence) the minister avoided catastrophe. (something that I believe Christ appreciates)


Anyway, why would Christ deliver the man from violence? Maybe because it's bad!

 

[Scholar in training]

All of these situations could be avoided if Christian principles or plain old wit was exercised.
A better example would be if a man runs up to you and punches the crap out of you. What to do? Well, this happened to one of the ministers at my church, and he didn't hit the man back. In fact, the man realized that he had mistaken the minister for someone else. The man was dreadfully sorry, and the minister got an open opportunity to minister to the guy right there. If the minister had hit him back, one of those men would have likely been in the hospital or dead. (amuch worse scenario.) By restraining himself (which was hard to do b/c he used to be a violent drug dealer) the minister avoided catastrophe. (something that I believe Christ appreciates)

Unfortunately it does not turn out that way all the time - or even most of the time. Sometimes the attacker will punch his victim - sometimes stab, kill, or abuse his victim. There is no reason to take that chance.

 

[Dmckay]

This needs to be understood in its cultural context. In most societies, historically, being left-handed was thought to be unnatural. In the Book of Judges it is recorded that even one of the Judges was left-handed to show that he was disadvantaged.
What does that have to do with the passage in question?

The right hand was used for most things. How do you smite someone on their right cheek with your right hand? A back of the hand slap. What is in question here is not defending yourself from a vicious attack, but rather ignoring insult, which culturally and historically was a slap in the face. Turning the other cheek would be the equivalent of saying, "Is that the best you can do?" or "You hit like a girl."

 

[intricatic]

I think the question to be asked is this: Are these situations examples of situations Jesus intended us to use this particular scripture to define?

And do we think that Jesus cared more about the results, or about the effect of our non-resistance of violence on our character?

The results. Courage, humility, and patience are required to 'turn the other cheek' and it's not about how the world sees us when we act this way, it's about how you - as an individual in relation to God - respond to the situations. Things can grow from the simplest seed to be vastly complex and beyond even our understanding.

 

[AngelusSax]

Somebody tell me where He talks about some excommunication in this passage. Last I checked, smite meant strike not put out or excommunicated.

The only way a predominantly right-handed society is gonna smite anyone on a right cheek is by left-handed back-handing, which from my Bible Study I got was the physical act used in excommunication (they actually hit you and told you to leave).

 

[ebia]

The only way a predominantly right-handed society is gonna smite anyone on a right cheek is by left-handed back-handing,

Or by standing beside the victim (on their right), or if using a stick or staff, or quite a few other possibilities. Or, I dare say, there are were other instances where a backhanded slap was used. It seems a huge jump of logic to go from "right cheek" to "excommunication" without some other pointers.

And do we think that Jesus cared more about the results, or about the effect of our non-resistance of violence on our character?

Both. And the character that is reflected in non-resistance.

 

[AngelusSax]

It seems a huge jump of logic to go from "right cheek" to "excommunication" without some other pointers.

The same can be said about any historical-critical reading of any text of the Bible, from why Paul says to drink wine to women speaking in public/church.

 

[ebia]

The same can be said about any historical-critical reading of any text of the Bible, from why Paul says to drink wine to women speaking in public/church.

And?

This one seems a bit too stretched to me, particularly as it gives a very different meaning to the text.

 

[George_4JC]

From the time of our spiritual rebirth which we recieve at the time of our salvation, through the gift of our Lord Jesus Christ,we become new spiritual beings, placed by God in a higher spiritual plateau. We are,in a sense, spiritually clothed in new pure white robes though our physical being remains in this world. We are now truly God's children. We now stand above the dirt and grime of sin we were once covered in.It is from this time on the enemy anxiously seeks to tempt us, to in fact soil ourselves. (Stain our robes so to speak, to blemish and corrupt the Lord's children)
Do not let the enemy entice us to soil ourselves by "sinking to it's level."
(As you can remember how he tried to discredit Job by trying to entice him to sin before the eyes of God.)
Also the violence of man is nothing more than another form of sinful lust. To give in and repond to violence with violence is giving into lust.
Remember many of those who assault us are spiritually ill and separated from God and "know not what they do." They are under the devil's influence and power, blinded as we all once were. They are similiar to puppets whose strings are being pulled by their puppet master the devil. They are servants of Satan.
They are in fact truly hurting themselves.
Pr 1:10-18
My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.
"And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives."

Remember this is also not only an attack on you or I as individuals, it is also an attack against our Lord. Let our Lord deal with it. We are His children and as such let Him fight our battles.

Matthew 25:31-46
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty,and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
We must always remember we always are in the sight of God.
And as such many such circumstances are used by our Lord to test and thereby strengthen our Spiritual growth and can also be used as a form of chastisement for something we thought or act we committed to get us back on that strait and narrow road we must walk.
Do not repond to attack from the the enemy and those under his power or influence by using his weapons, but we are to use the Lord's. In doing so we are in fact heaping coals on the head of all those who fail to repent and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

Luke 6:27-36
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Also
Matthew 5:44-48
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

Friend, even if the situation is to such an extreme that if given the choice to either fight or die, choose death, for I know as a born again Christian there is only one physical death, after which I will be home again and present with my Lord.
(For I feel as a foreigner in the world)
I say this with confidence for I've seen and faced death, ordeals through which the Lord has and still sustains me.
(I've had a loaded rifle pointed at me, also tasted the experience of physical near death due to drowning)
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Psalm 7:10-16
My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.
He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.
Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief,and brought forth falsehood.
He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

Always remember it is a greater sign of strength to turn the other cheek than to take matters in your own hand.
In taking the law into your own hands you take the matter from the Lord and place all the consquences of your actions on your own shoulders. There are always consequences.

Matthew 26:52-53
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Be confident all shall recieve their just reward and punishment at the Lord's appointed time. Stay close to the Lord and He will sustain you always, especially in times of adversity for this is the time where the Lord's glory can shine it's brightest in your life.

 

[Dragons87]

I read it up somewhere that the slapping of the other side of the face, the taking of both your overcoat and your underclothes, and walking 2 miles instead of 1 are examples of nonviolent struggle, not "not struggle at all" or "give even more opportunities for your enemies to humiliate you".

 

[George_4JC]

Luke 6:27-36
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

The core of the message is to overcome evil with love and goodness.
As far as "give even more opportunities for your enemies to humiliate you" who truly is the one humiliated when we all stand before God in the day of judgement.

 

[ebia]

I read it up somewhere that the slapping of the other side of the face, the taking of both your overcoat and your underclothes, and walking 2 miles instead of 1 are examples of nonviolent struggle, not "not struggle at all" or "give even more opportunities for your enemies to humiliate you".

Well yes. Turning the other cheek to be hit again shows considerably more strength and courage than smacking the guy back.

 

[DiscoFrank]

exactly. People have explained the back hand slap thing. The giving of the tunic as I understand it works like this. In palestine, people wore an undergarment (tunic) and overgarment (coat) so if someone were to take you to court to sue you for your coat and you offered your tunic as well, you'd essentially be naked, which would cause them as much humiliation.

Roman soldiers were also only allowed to make people carry their loads one mile but no further, and they were often beaten if caught making them carry further, so by offering to carry the load two miles, you would be being defiant to the soldier while also only being generous.

He's very clever that Jesus fellow!