What did Jesus really mean when he said turn the other cheek ?

Soulx3

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Actually He said Peter was the first to speak truth from the Father, The Father's truth being the only truth his movement/church would be built upon. The only church at the time was the church of Jerusalem and that was run by His brother James.

Jesus said to Peter that upon him He would "build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.". Christianity began in Jerusalem, and Jesus made His cousin, apostle James of Alphaeue, the first bishop of Jerusalem. All the apostles were the first leaders of the Christian (Catholic Church), Peter being the first among His equals (the other apostles) and Peter's position has had a successor over the past two thousand years, and that position is that of the Pope.
 
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timothyu

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Jesus said to Peter that upon him He would "build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.". Christianity began in Jerusalem, and Jesus made His cousin, apostle James of Alphaeue, the first bishop of Jerusalem. All the apostles were the first leaders of the Christian (Catholic Church), Peter being the first among His equals (the other apostles) and Peter's position has had a successor over the past two thousand years, and that position is that of the Pope.
Tradition has spoken
 
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Soulx3

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Tradition has spoken

Jesus said to Peter that upon him He would "build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it.". Christianity began in Jerusalem, and Jesus made His cousin, apostle James of Alphaeus, the first bishop of Jerusalem. All the apostles were the first leaders of the Christian (Catholic) Church, Peter being the first among His equals (the other apostles) and Peter's position has had a successor over the past two thousand years, and that position is that of the Pope.

Jesus spoke of bringing people from other folds into His one fold. The existence of other religions and the existence of multiple new Christian denominations, where each differs in beliefs causing confusion and misleading, etc., founded by other men centuries after Jesus already founded His Christian (Catholic) Church flies in the face of what He wanted and still wants. He wants the conversion of souls, He wants all souls to be united under God, under His appointed leader of His earthly Church, united in beliefs, faith, hope, and love, where all rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit to see us through misunderstandings, doubts, questions, disagreements, etc.
 
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timothyu

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He wants the conversion of souls, He wants all souls to be united under God
Yes, under truth from God alone, not man. Man cannot represent the Kingdom by building yet another government of man. The two worlds are opposite in nature. The Kingdom is a culture that counters the world we have made in our own image. It is one of pure servitude, not one of power disguised as noble.
But yes unity was required as the original movement was attacked by the world of man and scattered about, leaving it even more vulnerable to influence from the adversarial ways of man. What survived because of this so called unity was not the movement or original church based upon the ways of the Kingdom, but only the very scriptures that held that good news for those loyal to the Kingdom, but bad news for those loyal to the ways of mankind. Unity is actually a misnomer because Christianity has been comprised of both sides ever since, each representing opposing sides as man has done since the Garden, one the will of man and one the will of God, while both claim God as their own. Only discernment using Jesus' two commandments shows which are frauds. It is obvious also which of the two will appear as the larger presence in the world of man, their foundation..
 
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Soulx3

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Yes, under truth from God alone, not man. Man cannot represent the Kingdom by building yet another government of man. The two worlds are opposite in nature.

God Himself is not only Spirit, but also became man, and He chose men, and spent three years preparing men to be the first leaders of His earthly Church that He founded as God and man, to carry on His Word and example. These men, these sinners, these friends, abandoned Jesus (God) for a time, yet all the while knowing they would, He still entrusted His earthly Church and all present and future souls into their protection. He did that because as long as men choose to rely on God, then it's not man that is acting or being followed, but ultimately God. He also chose men who are sinners to attract sinners, who are all of mankind, to show that no matter how much we sin, even to the point of denying Him or worse, there is God's love, hope, mercy, and forgiveness, if there is a sincere repentance.

The existence of multiple false religions and multiple new Christian belief systems, founded by other men centuries after Jesus, flies in the face of His will, which is one fold under one Shepherd. Jesus, our Shepherd, chose Peter to succeed that role on earth saying that upon him He would "build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it." Peter, the first among his equals (the other apostles) and that succession of that role has an unbroken line for over two-thousand years.

As you say, no matter one's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, one's eternal dwelling place depends on whether or not they loved their fellow man, and thus God. However, that doesn't mean we should leave souls to wander about the world finding and eating whatever foods that looks enticing or seem fulfilling, because some could actually be harmful. Just as growing body needs the right nutrients to achieve a healthy body, a soul needs the right spiritual nutrients to receive a healthy soul. When we ingest a mix of proper and improper nutrients, we're not receiving all good nutrients, which leaves the state of our health compromised, weak, and susceptible to sicknesses, etc. We're not as strong enough to resist unhealthy temptations, etc. These false religions and these newer Christian beliefs systems founded by other men centuries after Jesus bear bits of proper nutrients (truth), because they were borrowed from the Church Jesus founded, and they are mixed with improper nutrients (falsehoods), and thus there are souls not receiving all good nutrients that only His Church can provide. Does it mean that man, through his own will, can't or doesn't try to contaminate the spiritual food served even within His Church? No, satan's evil agenda is always at work, but so is God if, through our own will, we ask for His guidance and will to be done.
 
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timothyu

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However, that doesn't mean we should leave souls to wander about the world finding and eating whatever foods that looks enticing or seem fulfilling,
I agree. That is where discernment comes in. As you said "build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it." meaning as truth had come through peter from God, that truth meaning God's will supersedes the will of man, His truth counters man's truths, and the doors of death would no longer remain closed as His Kingdom built upon His truths, not man's, had come. It's unfortunate that man in charge of the evolving church chose to ditch the Kingdom and realign themselves with the world of man, altering God's truths to suit their own will in the process. We lost sight of a church that was to represent an entirely opposite way of life to the world of man. It should have stood out like a beacon of hope in this world rather than blend back in and assimilate with the governments of man and become a tool of the Empire. Fortunately God's truths remained in scripture even if man failed Him once again.
 
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Soulx3

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I agree. That is where discernment comes in. As you said "build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it." meaning as truth had come through peter from God, that truth meaning God's will supersedes the will of man, His truth counters man's truths, and the doors of death would no longer remain closed as His Kingdom built upon His truths, not man's, had come. It's unfortunate that man in charge of the evolving church chose to ditch the Kingdom and realign themselves with the world of man, altering God's truths to suit their own will in the process. We lost sight of a church that was to represent an entirely opposite way of life to the world of man. It should have stood out like a beacon of hope in this world rather than blend back in and assimilate with the governments of man and become a tool of the Empire. Fortunately God's truths remained in scripture even if man failed Him once again.

How can you speak of Jesus's Christian (Catholic) Church like that? Where's the faith? Where's the prayer? Where's the charity? Satan attacks the stronghold the most. God Himself is not only Spirit, but also became man, and He chose men, and spent three years preparing men to be the first leaders of His earthly Church that He founded as God and man, to carry on His Word and example. These men, these sinners, these friends, abandoned Jesus (God) for a time, yet all the while knowing they would, He still entrusted His earthly Church and all present and future souls into their protection. He did that because as long as men choose to rely on God, then it's not man that is acting or being followed, but ultimately God. He also chose men who are sinners to attract sinners, who are all of mankind, to show that no matter how much we sin, even to the point of denying Him or worse, there is God's love, hope, mercy, and forgiveness, if there is a sincere repentance.

The existence of multiple false religions and multiple new Christian belief systems, founded by other men centuries after Jesus, flies in the face of His will, which is one fold under one Shepherd. Jesus, our Shepherd, chose Peter to succeed that role on earth saying that upon him He would "build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it." Peter, the first among his equals (the other apostles) and that succession of that role has an unbroken line for over two-thousand years.

Why are you surprised that Jesus's Christian (Catholic) sin? People killed God in the flesh. Can you be surprised by anything less? Does the failings of men mean the Christian (Catholic) Church isn't the Church Jesus founded? No, just as it doesn't mean the apostles weren't Jesus's elected ones just because they failed Him at times.

Again, as you say, no matter one's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, one's eternal dwelling place depends on whether or not they loved their fellow man, and thus God. However, that doesn't mean we should leave souls to wander about the world finding and eating whatever foods that looks enticing or seem fulfilling, because some could actually be harmful. Just as growing body needs the right nutrients to achieve a healthy body, a soul needs the right spiritual nutrients to receive a healthy soul. When we ingest a mix of proper and improper nutrients, we're not receiving all good nutrients, which leaves the state of our health compromised, weak, and susceptible to sicknesses, etc. We're not as strong enough to resist unhealthy temptations, etc. These false religions and these newer Christian beliefs systems founded by other men centuries after Jesus bear bits of proper nutrients (truth), because they were borrowed from the Church Jesus founded, and they are mixed with improper nutrients (falsehoods), and thus there are souls not receiving all good nutrients that only His Church can provide. Does it mean that man, through his own will, can't or doesn't try to contaminate the spiritual food served even within His Church? No, satan's evil agenda is always at work, but so is God if, through our own will, we ask for His guidance and will to be done.
 
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timothyu

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Despite all the attacks of Satan, His Church still stands
What is supposed to still stand it God's truths, not man's. Human institutions do not come into play. The Kingdom is the focus and it still stands outside the world man has made in our image. It hasn't assimilated itself.

As for attacks of Satan and what stands, it might be wise to remember what Jesus said Matthew 12:
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
 
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Soulx3

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What is supposed to still stand it God's truths, not man's. Human institutions do not come into play. The Kingdom is the focus and it still stands outside the world man has made in our image. It hasn't assimilated itself. As for attacks of Satan and what stands, it might be wise to remember what Jesus said Matthew 12:
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

What human truths in what human institution are you talking about? I'm talking about Jesus's Christian (Catholic) Church that He founded and goes back to the time of Jesus. The truths Christian (Catholics) hold came from Him. Centuries later after Jesus, other men started their own Christian denominations using borrowed truths from Jesus's Church as well as falsehoods. Only Jesus's Church has the full truth, these other denominations and other religions have bits of His truth.
 
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timothyu

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What human truths in what human institution are you talking about?
Anything that focuses on self. Like when anyone including churches of man make God over in their own image instead of the other way around. Assimilating with the world and government of man is opposite to what the kingdom was about. We were to set ourselves up as an alternative to the ways of mankind, not join them .
 
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Anything that focuses on self. Like when anyone including churches of man make God over in their own image instead of the other way around. Assimilating with the world and government of man is opposite to what the kingdom was about. We were to set ourselves up as an alternative to the ways of mankind, not join them .

So, you're not talking about Jesus's Christian (Catholic) Church? And, which of these newer Christian denominations are you part of?
 
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timothyu

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Only Jesus's Church has the full truth, these other denominations and other religions have bits of His truth.
Agreed but the Way and the Nazarenes disappeared. All we were left with was scripture which recorded the original truths.
 
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timothyu

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So, you're not talking about Jesus's Christian (Catholic) Church?
Show me one church the adversarial spirit of man and the fallen elohim has not infiltrated. I just said "Assimilating with the world and government of man is opposite to what the kingdom was about."
 
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Soulx3

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Show me one church the adversarial spirit of man and the fallen elohim has not infiltrated.

Satan attacks all souls, no matter their spiritual beliefs or lack thereof, but that fact doesn't negate that the Christian (Catholic) Church is the one Jesus established on this earth. He established an ecclesiastical hierarchy: Jesus's Mother is second to Peter, he being the Head and Her a believer, but first as Mother of the Church having given birth to Jesus, Who is the Head of this mystical Body. Mary's role on earth was not to reject the many Judases, but assist and teach Peter and the other apostles not to reject, but to assist. To defend Jesus in His followers, and defend Him from those who want to disperse and dismember the dawning Church. And in future centuries, always be She Who pleads for and protects, defends and helps His Church, His Priests, His believers, from Evil and Punishment, from themselves. Since the Christian (Catholic) Church's inception over two thousand years ago, the apostles have had successors.

The sacrifice of each of its members is required. Starting with Jesus, the Founder. He is, in fact, its mystical Head, for Peter, for all the disciples, for all those who will be called Christians and will belong to the universal Church. And really in the great classification of the hierarchy the most humble people, who seem to be simple "numbers ", will be the ones who will make the Church truly vital.

Remember that in an organism a hierarchy is required, so that it may be really active and wholesome, that is, someone who commands, someone who transmits orders, and those who obey. That is what happens in the courts of kings, as well as in religions. From the Hebrew religion to the others, even if they are so impure, there is always a chief, his ministers, the servants of the ministers, and lastly the believers. A pontiff cannot act by himself. A king cannot act by himself. And their dispositions concern only human contingencies, or the formalism of rites... Yes. Unfortunately, now, also in the Mosaic religion, there is nothing left but the formalism of rites, the continuation of the movements of a device that goes on making the same gestures, even now that the spirit of the gestures is dead. Dead forever. Their Divine Enlivener, He Who gave import to the rites, has withdrawn from them. And the rites are gestures, nothing else. Gestures that any histrion could mime on the stage of an amphitheatre.

Woe, when a religion dies, and from a real living power becomes a clamorous exterior pantomime, an empty thing behind a painted scenery, behind pompous garments, the movements of devices performing certain actions, just as a key activates a spring, but neither key nor spring is conscious of what they do. Woe! Ponder! The apostles were told to remember this truth and tell their successors about it, so that it may be known throughout ages. The fall of a planet is less frightening than the fall of religion. If the sky should be depopulated of its stars and planets, it would not be for peoples as bad a misfortune as if they remained without religion. God would provide with provident power for the needs of men, because God can do everything for those who, in a wise way, or in the way that their ignorance knows, seek and love the Divinity in a right spirit. But if the day should come when men no longer loved God, because the priests of every religion had made only an empty pantomime of it, as they were the first not to believe in their religion, woe betide the Earth!

Now, if I say so for those religions that are impure, as some have come through partial revelation to a wise person, some derive from the instinctive need of man to create a faith for himself to nourish his soul to love a god — as this need is the strongest incentive of man, the permanent state of research for Him Who is, and Who is wanted by the spirit even if the proud intellect refuses to pay homage to any god, even if man, unaware of the soul, is unable to give a name to such need that stirs within him — what shall I say for this religion that Jesus has given us, for this one that bears His Name, for this one of which He has created the apostles pontiffs and priests, for this one that He ordered them to propagate all over the world? For this religion Unique, True, Perfect, Immutable in the Doctrine taught by Me, the Master, completed by the continuous teaching of Him Who will come, the Holy Spirit, the Most Holy Guide for My Pontiffs and for those who will help them, second chiefs in the various Churches created in the various regions where My Word will be asserted. These Churches, although various in number, will not be different in thought, but will be one thing only with the Church, as with their individual parts they will form the great building, greater and greater, the great new Temple, that with its pavilions will reach all the corners of the earth. Not different in thought, nor contrasting with one another, but united, brotherly to one another, all subjected to the Head of the Church, to Peter, and to his successors until the end of time.

And those that for any reason should separate from the Mother Church, would be members cut off, no longer nourished with the mystic blood that is Grace coming from Jesus, the divine Head of the Church. Like prodigal sons, separated through their own will from the paternal house, in their short-lived wealth and constant and graver and graver misery, they would be blunting their spiritual intellects by means of too heavy foods and wines, and then they would languish eating the bitter acorns of unclean animals until they returned to the paternal house, saying with contrite hearts: "We have sinned. Father, forgive us and open the doors of your abode to us." Then, whether it is a member of a separated Church, or an entire Church - oh! if it were so, but where, when will so many imitators of Jesus arise, capable of redeeming these entire separated Churches, at the cost of their lives, to make, to remake only one Fold under only one shepherd, as He ardently wishes? — then whether it is only one person or an assembly that comes back, open the doors to them.

The apostles were instructed to be fatherly. They were told to consider that all of them, for one hour or for many, perhaps for years, were, individually, prodigal sons enveloped in concupiscence. They were instructed to not be hard on those who repent and remember! remember! that many of them ran away at Jesus's arrest. And was their running away perhaps not an abjuration of their love for Him? Therefore, as He received them as soon as they, repentant, came to Him, they were to do the same themselves. To do everything He did. That was His command. They lived with Him for three years. They knew His deeds and His thoughts. When, in future, they would find themselves in front of a case to be decided, they were to look back to the time when they were with Him and behave as He behaved. They would never go wrong. Jesus is the living perfect example of what they had to do.

And the apostles were told to remember also that Jesus did not refuse Himself even to Judas of Kerioth... that a priest must try to save, by all possible means. And let love always prevail, among the means used to save. They were told to consider that He was not unaware of Judas' horror... But, overcoming all disgust, He treated the wretch as He treated John. The apostles....they were often to be spared the bitterness of knowing that nothing is of any use to save a beloved disciple... And they were therefore able to work without the tiredness that affects one, when one knows that everything is useless... One must work even then...always...until everything is accomplished...
 
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timothyu

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one Jesus established on this earth.
Believe what you will. If you would rather defend an institution using it's language as I am seeing here over the Kingdom that Jesus said was His good news, that is your choice. There is always room for expansion though. The Kingdom is not yet of this world but there are indeed stepping stones along the way.
 
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Soulx3

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If you would rather defend an institution using it's language as I am seeing here over the Kingdom that is your choice. There is always room for expansion.

The Kingdom of God is love. If we love others, and thus love God, then the Kingdom of God is within us. And, if we persevere in love on this earth to the end then we will join God in Heaven. I'm talking about the ecclesiastical hierarchy of the Christian (Catholic) Church Jesus established on earth. How can you not recognize it? What do you think Jesus trained twelve men for three years for? Why do you think He sent them the Holy Spirit? Why do you think apostle James of Alphaeus became the first bishop of Jerusalem?
 
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Soulx3

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The Kingdom of God is love. If we love others, and thus love God, then the Kingdom of God is within us. And, if we persevere in love on this earth to the end then we will join God in Heaven. I'm talking about the ecclesiastical hierarchy of the Christian (Catholic) Church Jesus established on earth. How can you not recognize it? What do you think Jesus trained twelve men for three years for? Why do you think He sent them the Holy Spirit? Why do you think apostle James of Alphaeus became the first bishop of Jerusalem?
 
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Remember when the Kingdom and the will of God was rejected to rejoin and assimilate with the Roman Empire

You said, "The Kingdom is not yet of this world," but Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within us (Lk. 17:21). When and how is it within us? When we love, and obedience to God is love, and when we love God is in us." (1 Jn. 4:12)

Back to the topic, which is the ecclesiastical hierarchy of the Christian (Catholic) Church that Jesus established on earth. You reject that He did, so I ask you, what do you think Jesus trained twelve men for three years for? Why do you think He sent them the Holy Spirit? Why do you think apostle James of Alphaeus became the first bishop of Jerusalem?
 
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