What de-conversion feels like

ClementofRome · Jan 2, 2006

Cat59 said:
I'm not a big fan of post modernity
I once sat through a lecture on Post modern psychiatry and realised at the end I hadn't understood a single word the lecturer had said. I found a great post modern essay generator once, which produced pages of un-understandable post modern prose at the press of a button...
But at the moment, even though I am now so distant from where I used to be, I listen to my beloved hubbie, who informs me that if the God he believes in is real, he will not let me go. And I have told him I accept that, however much I do not believe it to be true.
Cat

Yea, postmodernitiy is quite the mess. If you want confusion, go read some Baudrillard...

I agree with your "hubbie", that if his God is real, then, he will not let you go. Thanks for the chat Cat! I have enjoyed it very much. You have helped me begin to understand "de-conversion" and that was my goal by dropping into this, already lengthy, thread.

Blessings to you and hubbie!
Clem

ACougar · Jan 2, 2006

You seem to be really working hard to convince yourself that you "know" God and I suspect that deep down you are terrified that you don't really know God. All I can tell you is that God is Love and that as long as you seek God, he will not turn away from you.

spirit1st said:
YOU see,It is much more than believing.It is KNOWING GOD!AsFATHER AND FRIEND!
knoqwing the bible is nice.But know HIM personally is ,what it is all about.FollowING HIm as HE LEADS AND TEACHES US!
Most people follow other people.be it a pastor or priest,or anyone !
This is evil to GOD!
But many believe those people and others over GOD!
HE gave HIS CHILDERN.HIS OWN SPIRIT!JUST TO TEACH US!
Many people believe the bible?But not in truth.They believe what others have taught them.
Not what the HOLY GHOST TAUGHT THEM!
They have a form of godiness.But no power!They couldn"t raise the dead ,or heal a persom or cast out a demon!
They just kinda play at knowing GOD?
Most do this.Thinking they know GOD.But never hearing from HIm or even seeing a miracle!Very sad.Of course they would argue with you and get mad!
IO was once like that.Until I died the 1st time,and was headingto hell.To await judgement.
Now I know,What waits the unsaved.I was never so scared in my life time!
But after returning too the flesh.It took a while.But one day I prayed.If there really is a GOD and JESUS christ and the bible is real.YOU come show me.And I will follow YOU!But If i am not talking to air?I will fail YOU!But if you pick me up each time?I will try again.HE showed me and has never failed me since.At that time.I had the real born of GOD ,experiance.I knew it for what it was.I said?GEE LORD,So this is BORN AGAIN!
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
BUT I HAVE FOUND.Some ask,But they are not willing,to allow HIM ,to be there LORD AND MASTER!Thinking they could lose something?But HE IS NO TAKER.BUT A GIVER!
satan put this lie in our minds ,to keep us from knowing ?TRUE LOVE AND POWER AND THE REASON FOR LIFE!
satan is the great deciever.
he tries every lie on us,hoping to decieve us with one!
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
THESE SIGNS FOLLOW THOSE WHO BELONG TO GOD!
DID THEY FOLLOW YOU?
THEY DO ME!And SHOULD EVERY CHILD OF GOD!

spirit1st · Jan 2, 2006

You seem to be really working hard to convince yourself that you "know" God and I suspect that deep down you are terrified that you don't really know God. All I can tell you is that God is Love and that as long as you seek God, he will not turn away from you.

I been DEAD TWICE.Already been to heaven,Saw the NEW CITY ,made for GODS CHILDERN!
EMar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
EXPERIANCED ALL THIS!
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
HAD MANY MIRACLES AND HEALINGS

JUST THE OTHER DAY,MY BOY HAD HIS GAME BOY ADVANCE stolen .WE PRAYED the HOLY GHOST would send it back and reveal who stole it!
The nexct morniong a boy showed up with it and gave it back!
theifs bring things back normally!
I broke my ankle and ask ,MY FATHER ?Are YOU going to heal this LORD?He said?You going to walk in faith?I said yes LORD!It was big and blue and black looking.The next day.I was on a deep pitch roof working without any pain or problem.But it still looked bad.He did the same thing,when I shot a hole in my foot and lost the big toe bone.He put the bone back in.But still the top and bottom was not healed.Of course it did heal with everything back in the middle!
I have over 14 pages of miracles and healing in my life!I had no home.I ask my FATHER for a home.NOW I have a paid for home.My wife could not have kids.I ask for kids?We have 2 now.A boy 12 and girl 7. The nurse dropped the boy when born.He died .They gave up on him.after 15 or 20 minutes.But I prayed for the boy and here he is!They gave him a gap score of 3 .But he is on the honor roll.THE CHRISTAIN LIVES A MIRCALE LIFE!THEY SEE THEM A LOT.AND EXPECT THEM!

Eudaimonist · Jan 3, 2006

ClementofRome said:
It is tough at times being a premodern living in a postmodern world.

Hey, it's tough at times being a modern living in a postmodern world.

ClementofRome · Jan 3, 2006

Eudaimonist said:
Hey, it's tough at times being a modern living in a postmodern world.

I am sure! You gotta have a lotta nerve to ditch truth completely.

ForumGuy · Jan 7, 2006

So those who have never felt his presence? What was guiding me? What was driving me? What was that prescnce I felt? And how did it know how things would work out?

Eudaimonist · Jan 8, 2006

ForumGuy said:
So those who have never felt his presence? What was guiding me? What was driving me? What was that prescnce I felt?

Human psychology is complex, and there is much going on beneath the surface of consciousness. What you felt was within yourself.

And how did it know how things would work out?

It didn't. Intuition can make some good guesses, though.

Rae · Jan 8, 2006

I firmly believe God will be in your life in whatever space you make open for Her/Him. If the only space you make available is "Jesus," then God appears to you as Jesus.

MQTA · Jan 8, 2006

Rae's of light awesome! makes sense.

kinda like, um... shapeshifters ?

Rae · Jan 8, 2006

There's nothing wrong with shapeshifters. I had a parakeet who could shift his shape to squeeze through a space in his cage that we all thought he couldn't get out of. Loved that little sucker.

MQTA · Jan 8, 2006

my hamsters were experts at that

Species8472 · Jan 8, 2006

True freedom---

Jesus said, wretched is the body that is dependent upon the soul; and wretched is the soul that is dependent on these two! body and soul
Deny yourself and you will truly be free. That's--free spirit. Not de-conversion. Forget the church. The church doesn't even recognize the gospel of thomas.

spirit1st · Jan 18, 2006

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Once BORN OF GOD!We do not leave our LORD JESUS CHRIST .DEAth or anything does not keep us from HIM!
You lie to yourself!You never knew HIM!
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Nightson · Jan 18, 2006

spirit1st said:
You lie to yourself!You never knew HIM!

What arrogance to claim to know people's hearts. Are you God?

Maynard Keenan · Jan 18, 2006

Any time I've considered deconversion, I get a deep and intense fear that I'd be wrong and go to hell for it. I don't think of hell except when I question if my beliefs are right. If I could somehow eliminate fear of hell I'd either end up immeasurably more spiritual and close to God...or an atheist.

MQTA · Jan 19, 2006

Maynard Keenan said:
Any time I've considered deconversion, I get a deep and intense fear that I'd be wrong and go to hell for it. I don't think of hell except when I question if my beliefs are right. If I could somehow eliminate fear of hell I'd either end up immeasurably more spiritual and close to God...or an atheist.

in another thread, or maybe even this one, someone claims that it's not fear, no fear at all, uh uh.

I guess only the brave deconvert? and if you listen to their stories, they got over their fear and grew wonderfully where they were stagnated and fearful before

Nightson · Jan 19, 2006

Maynard Keenan said:
Any time I've considered deconversion, I get a deep and intense fear that I'd be wrong and go to hell for it. I don't think of hell except when I question if my beliefs are right. If I could somehow eliminate fear of hell I'd either end up immeasurably more spiritual and close to God...or an atheist.

Well, remember this

(Robert G. Ingersoll)
When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free--free to think, to express my thoughts--free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself . . . I was free! I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

LibertyChic · Jan 19, 2006

Nightson said:
Well, remember this

(Robert G. Ingersoll)
When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free--free to think, to express my thoughts--free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination's wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself . . . I was free! I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.

Amen brother. Preach it!

ImmortalTechnique · Jan 19, 2006

it feels like starting to think again

Rosa Mystica · Jan 30, 2006

Maynard Keenan said:
Any time I've considered deconversion, I get a deep and intense fear that I'd be wrong and go to hell for it. I don't think of hell except when I question if my beliefs are right. If I could somehow eliminate fear of hell I'd either end up immeasurably more spiritual and close to God...or an atheist.

Maynard Keenan,

Are you doubting your faith? I ask b/c I'm doubting mine. I also have a similar view of hell and deconversion.

If you wanna continue this conversation via pm, feel free. If you'd rather ignore me totally, that's fine too.

Hugs,
Rosa

What de-conversion feels like

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