What Day Of The Week Is The Sabbath?

[tall73]

Now for the real Ignatian Epistle.


Ignatius of Antioch's Epistle to the Magnesians, the Ancient Christian Writters translation, chapters 8 and 9,

"Do not be led astray by those erroneous teachings and ancient fables which are utterly worthless. Indeed, if at this date we still conform to Judaism, then we own that we have not received grace. Why, the Prophets, those men so very near to God, lived in conformity with Christ Jesus. This, too, was the reason why they were persecuted, inspired as they were by His grace to bring full conviction to an unbelieving world that there is one God, who manifested Himself through Jesus Christ, His Son--who, being His Word, came forth out of the silence into the world and won the full approval of Him whose Ambassador He was.
Consequently, if the people who were given to obsolete practices faced the hope of a new life, and if these no longer observe the Sabbath, but regulate their calender by the Lord's Day, the day, too, on which our life rose by His power and through the medium of His death--though some deny this; and if to this mystery we owe our faith and because of it submit to suffering to prove ourselves disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Teacher: how, then, can we possibly live apart from Him of whom, by the working of the spirit, even the Prophets were disciples and to whom they looked forward as their Teacher? And so He, from whom they rightly waited came and raised them from the dead."

Ok, first of all, you are quoting the shorter version, which is mainly what Bacchiocchi deals with since many see the longer version as an interpolation. But in any case you can find the short and longer here:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-17.htm#P1394_249090

Here is the quote of the essential portion:


Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Christ Jesus. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence,45 and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him.
Be not deceived with strange doctrines, "nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies,"46 and things in which the Jews make their boast. "Old things are passed away: behold, all things have become new."47 For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Jesus Christ. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, the Almighty, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word, not spoken, but essential. For He is not the voice of an articulate utterance, but a substance begotten by divine power, who has in all things pleased Him that sent Him.48

• Chapter IX.-Let Us Live with Christ.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things49 have come to the possession of a new50 hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance51 of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith,5253 and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master-how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead.
If, then, those who were conversant with the ancient Scriptures came to newness of hope, expecting the coming of Christ, as the Lord teaches us when He says, "If ye had believed Moses, ye would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me; "54 and again, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it, and was glad; for before Abraham was, I am; "55 how shall we be able to live without Him? The prophets were His servants, and foresaw Him by the Spirit, and waited for Him as their Teacher, and expected Him as their Lord and Saviour, saying, "He will come and save us."56 Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."57 For say the [holy] oracles, "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread."58 But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them.59 And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, "To the end, for the eighth day,"60 on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, whom the children of perdition, the enemies of the Saviour, deny, "whose god is their belly, who mind earthly things,"61 who are "lovers of pleasure, and not lovers of God, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."62 These make merchandise of Christ, corrupting His word, and giving up Jesus to sale: they are corrupters of women, and covetous of other men's possessions, swallowing up wealth insatiably; from whom may ye be delivered by the mercy of God through our Lord Jesus Christ!

It doesn't seem much different than yours of course. And neither for that matter did Bacchiocchi's.

The difference is that Bacchiocchi noted some problems with the traditional translation of two key phrases, particularly "no longer observing the Sabbath" and "The Lord's Day."

Here is the online Greek text:

http://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/didache.htm

Here are my notes on the objection some have, and Bacchiocchi is not alone in this. I saw a similar discussion on B-Greek forums.


a. there is no word for day, hmera , it is supplied a a substantive.

b. The Greek manuscript discovered with Siniaticus actually has the word zwhn (life) which is not present in this Greek version provided by the web site. They omitted this, assumedly following the Latin translations.

c. There is evidence from the next phrase "in which", which is in the feminine, that there is a feminine word being referenced.. The aforementioned hmera, or zwhn could be that word. But since the one is clearly present in the Greek (Zwhn) but the other is not present in any text, but was assumed, then the issue is rather clear.

d. The word translated as "no longer keeping the Sabbath" is just the participle form, leading some to suggest it could be translated literally "Sabbatizing."

e. Moreover, as commentators have pointed out, the context is referring to the prophets of old. No one suggests that they kept Sunday. So the reading could be rendered something like:.

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer sabbatizing, but living in the observance of the Lord's own life (or own way of living), by which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith .....
Bacchiocchi might render the translation slightly differently in some particulars, but the point is the same.

In this case the text would be saying that the prophets lived according to the Lord's own way of life (keeping the Sabbath without the Jewish traditions).

If the longer reading is to be viewed as valid, then it harmonizes with this rendering well. If it is not valid then it was added later to clarify the text according to the later author's thinking. And it endorses the Sabbath, but not after the Jewish manner of legalism. He is telling them to keep the Sabbath, but not in the old way. And if not then he is simply saying to live after the Lord's way of life, and that of the prophets (not keeping the pharisaical traditions of the Sabbath).

 

[tulc]

I would be interested in seeing the documentation that you use for making that statement. What evidence do you have that shows that the seven day weekly cycle has been interrupted since apostolic times?

Remember they took away 10 days in the 16th century?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
tulc(something of a history freak)

 

[ThreeAM]

Remember they took away 10 days in the 16th century?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar
tulc(something of a history freak)

Me too! This is what they did. Notice it did not change the days of the week. We change the calendar by adding a leap day once every 4 years but we never add a second friday or skip a Tuesday. The days of the week are unchanged.

 

[tall73]

This is much different than the fabricated version from Bacchiocchi and fellow mobsters. I caught him fabricated evidence (e.g., Imaginary Literature) just like the Satanic church does (Gnostics, too)!

a. It is not much different. He stated a version very much like yours before giving his view on its flaws.

b. Associating it with mobsters, gnostics and satanists is just a way to make him look bad. Perhaps you could address the factual content of Bacchiocchi's arguments.

Bacchiocchi is one of the witches that murdered my best friends soul. He--among other SDA authorities--taught my friend evolutionism in a Bolshevik-Marxist/Nazi style of subtle brainwashing (Subtle: the "b" is so silent that one must pay close attention! Gen.3:1). The evil that I seen and heard was not Christianity, not Judaism (though pseudojudaism will work)--nay, it was not ever of God at any point in the eternal past. It was the "abomination that causes desolation"! It is not set up yet but its power is in the working right now, and the SDA-church is one of the powers pushing the abomination!

a. I don't know what he told you, so I can't speak to that.

b. His published work is readily available, feel free to refute it here.

c. If you wish to say that the SDA church is the abomination that causes desolation, that is fine. But you are required to give evidence to that effect.

It was last summer (after continuelly being interrogated for several hours at a time by my friend for a year 1/2 for attending a sunday church) and the moon was full, and there was not a cloud in the sky that night. My friend and I were walking on a nature trail with another friend. He began interrogating me as usual about the SUNday beast people, and I wanted is to enjoy our time in friendship and holiness. His logic took the following form:

(1) Sunday is the mark of the Beast
(2) Must destroy Sunday
(3) Must destroy all false witness of Sunday
(4) Fezz is Sunday
(5) Must destroy Sunday
(6) Must destroy Fezz

I am not really sure how any of this effects the logical arguments about the continuity of the Sabbath in the early church.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that was not fun for you. But it is hardly Bacchiocchi's fault. Perhaps allowing your friend to take some personal responsibility would be nice.

...A little later our bodies were taken over by different spirits. The spirit that spoke through me was the Holy Spirit: for it was noble, truthful, gentle yet stern, pure, and very very Holy. The spirit that spoke through my friend was a liar, meanspirited, hatfully polite--in subtle speech that is. I was not entirely me and he was not entirely him. But I remember the night perfectly and he don't remember much of anything that has happened over the last 2-years. When he tried to murder me with lying works, the Holy Spirit, who had filled me regardless of my imperfections, would speak to him through me and silence his lies with an incredible wisdom! Silence would reigh for a few straight mins. Then the hate he would bring back; and again the spirit would speak wisdom through the vessel of my body. My voice was not mine, yet I was not taken out of control. Love was all I felt inside. He finally spilled the beans and said, "All Christians are evil." Then...as we began walking, the moon began to shine as bright as the sun for some 30sec! I remembered Jer.31:35 and said, "Its the glory of God."

I still pray for my friend even though he is now an enemy of God. I don't like to believe that his sin is eternal, though it very well might be if he doesn't snap out of it quick!!! (The SDA church could not win him back over to God. It was their doctrines that broght him to the break of distruction). The White Witch told him to bring his family...and he did.

Alrighty.....

anecdotal evidence of the strangest sort. None of which says anything about the facts regarding the Sabbath.

So you see, I ended up having to debate the Devil himself. In the course of this year1/2, I would not have survived Satan's flamming arrows had it not been for the Lion of Judah giving me the Holy Spirit for guidence and strength; which looks like a righteous sun, or a morning star (rising in your heart and mind), except with sweet innocent eyes of love, true love.
(Read: 2Cor.11:13-15; Mal.3:2; 2Pet.1:19; Rev.2:28; Eph.6:10-18; Rev.18:4-5). Don't let your hearts be hardened.

Um, no I don't see, but I see that you at least perceive it so.

Now, for your eyes to witness, here is Ellen White's quote of Sunday death:

"The enemies of God's law, from the ministers down to the least among them, have a new conception of truth and duty. Too late they see that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is the seal of God. Too late they see the true nature of their spurious sabbath and the sandy foundation upon which they have been building. They find that they have been fighting against God. Religious teachers have led souls to perdition while professing to guide them to Paradise....
The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory" (Great Controversy, chapter 40).

a. First off this isn't an EGW thread, nor have any here quoted her to support our arguments. The Sabbath was around long before Ellen White.

b. As has been noted repeatedly this is describing her take on a last day event. It is not referring to anyone now.

 

[tulc]

Me too! This is what they did. Notice it did not change the days of the week. We change the calendar by adding a leap day once every 4 years but we never add a second friday or skip a Tuesday. The days of the week are unchanged.

Cool! Did you see this part?

For example, it is sometimes remarked that William Shakespeare and Miguel de Cervantes died on the same date, 23 April 1616, but not on the same day. England was still using Old Style dating in 1616, while Spain was using New Style. Cervantes actually died ten days before Shakespeare.

Sorry, go ahead back to your discussion, it's just I LOVE this kind of stuff!
tulc(very good at SOME parts of Trivial Pursuit)

 

[Sophia7]

Now for the real Ignatian Epistle.


Ignatius of Antioch's Epistle to the Magnesians, the Ancient Christian Writters translation, chapters 8 and 9,

"Do not be led astray by those erroneous teachings and ancient fables which are utterly worthless. Indeed, if at this date we still conform to Judaism, then we own that we have not received grace. Why, the Prophets, those men so very near to God, lived in conformity with Christ Jesus. This, too, was the reason why they were persecuted, inspired as they were by His grace to bring full conviction to an unbelieving world that there is one God, who manifested Himself through Jesus Christ, His Son--who, being His Word, came forth out of the silence into the world and won the full approval of Him whose Ambassador He was.
Consequently, if the people who were given to obsolete practices faced the hope of a new life, and if these no longer observe the Sabbath, but regulate their calender by the Lord's Day, the day, too, on which our life rose by His power and through the medium of His death--though some deny this; and if to this mystery we owe our faith and because of it submit to suffering to prove ourselves disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Teacher: how, then, can we possibly live apart from Him of whom, by the working of the spirit, even the Prophets were disciples and to whom they looked forward as their Teacher? And so He, from whom they rightly waited came and raised them from the dead."

This is much different than the fabricated version from Bacchiocchi and fellow mobsters. I caught him fabricated evidence (e.g., Imaginary Literature) just like the Satanic church does (Gnostics, too)!
Bacchiocchi is one of the witches that murdered my best friends soul. He--among other SDA authorities--taught my friend evolutionism in a Bolshevik-Marxist/Nazi style of subtle brainwashing (Subtle: the "b" is so silent that one must pay close attention! Gen.3:1). The evil that I seen and heard was not Christianity, not Judaism (though pseudojudaism will work)--nay, it was not ever of God at any point in the eternal past. It was the "abomination that causes desolation"! It is not set up yet but its power is in the working right now, and the SDA-church is one of the powers pushing the abomination!

It was last summer (after continuelly being interrogated for several hours at a time by my friend for a year 1/2 for attending a sunday church) and the moon was full, and there was not a cloud in the sky that night. My friend and I were walking on a nature trail with another friend. He began interrogating me as usual about the SUNday beast people, and I wanted is to enjoy our time in friendship and holiness. His logic took the following form:

(1) Sunday is the mark of the Beast
(2) Must destroy Sunday
(3) Must destroy all false witness of Sunday
(4) Fezz is Sunday
(5) Must destroy Sunday
(6) Must destroy Fezz

...A little later our bodies were taken over by different spirits. The spirit that spoke through me was the Holy Spirit: for it was noble, truthful, gentle yet stern, pure, and very very Holy. The spirit that spoke through my friend was a liar, meanspirited, hatfully polite--in subtle speech that is. I was not entirely me and he was not entirely him. But I remember the night perfectly and he don't remember much of anything that has happened over the last 2-years. When he tried to murder me with lying works, the Holy Spirit, who had filled me regardless of my imperfections, would speak to him through me and silence his lies with an incredible wisdom! Silence would reigh for a few straight mins. Then the hate he would bring back; and again the spirit would speak wisdom through the vessel of my body. My voice was not mine, yet I was not taken out of control. Love was all I felt inside. He finally spilled the beans and said, "All Christians are evil." Then...as we began walking, the moon began to shine as bright as the sun for some 30sec! I remembered Jer.31:35 and said, "Its the glory of God."

I still pray for my friend even though he is now an enemy of God. I don't like to believe that his sin is eternal, though it very well might be if he doesn't snap out of it quick!!! (The SDA church could not win him back over to God. It was their doctrines that broght him to the break of distruction). The White Witch told him to bring his family...and he did.

So you see, I ended up having to debate the Devil himself. In the course of this year1/2, I would not have survived Satan's flamming arrows had it not been for the Lion of Judah giving me the Holy Spirit for guidence and strength; which looks like a righteous sun, or a morning star (rising in your heart and mind), except with sweet innocent eyes of love, true love.
(Read: 2Cor.11:13-15; Mal.3:2; 2Pet.1:19; Rev.2:28; Eph.6:10-18; Rev.18:4-5). Don't let your hearts be hardened.

Now, for your eyes to witness, here is Ellen White's quote of Sunday death:

"The enemies of God's law, from the ministers down to the least among them, have a new conception of truth and duty. Too late they see that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is the seal of God. Too late they see the true nature of their spurious sabbath and the sandy foundation upon which they have been building. They find that they have been fighting against God. Religious teachers have led souls to perdition while professing to guide them to Paradise....
The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory" (Great Controversy, chapter 40).

Scripture disagrees with Ellen White in several places (Rom.2:14-15; 14; 1Tim:2:1-12; 5:22; 6:3-5; Eph.1:13; 4:30 just to mention a few).

My quote from Ignatius' Letter to the Magnesians did not come from Bacchiocchi; none of my quotes did, and they were not fabricated. Unfortunately, I didn't have a link for that in my previous post, so here is a link:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-17.htm#P1394_249090

You quoted only the first part of Chapter 9, which immediately precedes the section that I quoted. You have not provided any evidence that your shortened version is the correct version.

By the way, I never told you (if indeed you are Origen as well as Fezzilla) to go to GT to debate (as you claimed in a previous post). I told you not to debate in the Traditional Adventist subforum but rather to go to the main Adventist forum and ask questions. Debate is welcome in GT, but if you are to have any credibility, you should exhibit some reasonable knowledge of that which you speak. You do not. All you have done here is misrepresent Adventist beliefs and make wild, unfounded allegations against Adventists, even accusing some Adventist leaders of being witches, without giving any supporting evidence other than anecdotal tales.

 

[TheDag]

Hmmmm Dag as I said give it a rest. As I have already pointed out I included the Comments about Sola Scripta because I wanted Dean to prove his OPINIONS from scripture. There was a reason to include the statement then. You jumped to conclusions that simply were in error and you make things worse by continuing to to try to justfy your presumptuous assumptions. Dag give it a rest.

I understand you wanted dean to prove his point from scripture. You say that is why you included the sola scripture comments. Once again sola scripture does not mean only using scripture. So if you wanted him to prove his point using scripture then ask him to do that. Asking him to use sola scripture does not mean he has to use only scripture. So either you don't understand that or there was no reason for the comment which is what lead to the confusion. I'll be happy to give it a rest once you realise that asking him to use sola scripture is not the same as asking him to provide answer from scripture only.

 

[communityonline]

By Wooba: And since Jesus rose on the first day (Sunday) according to the Bible, it follows that Saturday is the 7th day, since according to the Bible He rested in death on the Sabbath.
_______________________



His body was dead, this flesh, but His Spirit was at work setting captives free and more.

So like us, our flesh nature is to be dead, but our Spirit-Man is at work.

 

[Sophia7]

On the subject of whether the days of the week have been confused because of changes in the calendar, the Jews have continued to observe the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath throughout history, regardless of what that day was called in different countries and regardless of calendar changes.

People often cite the change from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in 1582 as the reason that we can't be sure when the Sabbath really is. However, when the calendars were changed (because the Julian calendar had become out of sync with the solar year as a result of too many leap years), ten days were dropped from the month of October 1582. Thus, the date went from Thursday, October 4, 1582, to Friday, October 15, 1582. As the calendar posted by ThreeAM shows, there was no change in the days of the week.. The following is a quote from the U.S. Naval Observatory site to support this statement:

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html

Also, there have been attempted changes in the days of the week, such as in France during and after the French Revolution. For about 12 years, France adopted a calendar with a 10-day week. That calendar also included 10-hour days, divided into 100 decimal minutes, divided further into 100 decimal seconds. However, the calendar was abolished because it was impractical and confusing, failing to adjust properly for leap years and also causing workers to complain about long work weeks. After that failed experiment, France went back to the normal Gregorian calendar.

There have been no changes in calendars that would cause the whole world to lose track of which day of the week is which. Localized discrepancies--for instance, the adoption of the Gregorian calendar at different times in different countries--did not throw the whole world into confusion. And those who worship on Sunday have no trouble figuring out which day is Sunday. How convenient that the calendar dispute comes up only in regard to Sabbath.

 

[communityonline]

By: Fezz "(1) Sunday is the mark of the Beast"
_______________



If Sunday-Goers were murdering some one (or even thoughts of rage and anger toward any one) on that day or on any day their own actions would prove the mark of the beast.

But to go to a place to Worship and Praise God on Sunday or on any day their own actions proves the mark of God.

The Catholics says: You must Worship with us here in our building. (some what like this)

The SDA's says: You must Worship with us here in our building on the Sabbath Day. (somewhat like this,...you get the picture)

But Jesus' says: Those who Worship me must Worship me in Spirit and in Truth. And IMHO, most organizations are not in Spirit nor are others in truth.

No, don't destroy Fezz for we are all trying to follow Christ the best we know how!

 

[communityonline]

The Whole Law and even in the New Earth with it's Sabbath Days are still fulfilled in Christ.

So as the Sabbath Day remains - Christ Is.
And as the Sabbath Day remains in the New Earth - Christ, still, Is and Still is the Glory of the Father God where we can cry out and say "Abba Father, thank you for Saving me and thank you for being in my future! This is Worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth, because if we are His He Is and in the Future as we will be His He Is, still.

 

[Sophia7]

By: Fez "(1) Sunday is the mark of the Beast"
_______________



If Sunday-Goers were murdering some one (or even thoughts of rage and anger toward any one) on that day or on any day their own actions would prove the mark of the beast.

But to go to a place to Worship and Praise God on Sunday or on any day their own actions proves the mark of God.

The Catholics says: You must Worship with us here in our building. (some what like this)

The SDA's says: You must Worship with us here in our building on the Sabbath Day. (somewhat like this,...you get the picture)

But Jesus' says: Those who Worship me must Worship me in Spirit and in Truth.

Here we go again. . . .

Have you bothered to read the whole thread before posting? If so, you should know that Seventh-day Adventists also believe that we should worship God in spirit and in truth. And we should worship Him every day. However, God set apart the seventh day and declared it holy. Those of us who keep the Sabbath the way God desires are not keeping it because we are legalists who think that we are saved by observing God's commandments. We keep it because we want to experience the blessing of spending one entire day in communion with God, throwing off all of the distractions that keep us from worshiping Him fully in spirit and in truth every other day. The Sabbath is about more than going to a church building on Saturday morning. It is about expressing our love for God.

 

[rstrats]

tulc,

re: "Remember they took away 10 days in the 16th century?"

As has been said, those 10 days did not interrupt the weekly cycle.

re: "For example, it is sometimes remarked that William Shakespeare and Miguel de Cervantes died on the same date, 23 April 1616, but not on the same day. England was still using Old Style dating in 1616, while Spain was using New Style. Cervantes actually died ten days before Shakespeare."

How does this interrupt the weekly cycle?

 

[ThreeAM]

I understand you wanted dean to prove his point from scripture. You say that is why you included the sola scripture comments. Once again sola scripture does not mean only using scripture. So if you wanted him to prove his point using scripture then ask him to do that. Asking him to use sola scripture does not mean he has to use only scripture. So either you don't understand that or there was no reason for the comment which is what lead to the confusion. I'll be happy to give it a rest once you realise that asking him to use sola scripture is not the same as asking him to provide answer from scripture only.

You believe in Sola Scripta don't you?

Now show me where God has asked you to have your "Sabbath" on the 1st day of the week because of the resurrection. No external sources please. God blessed the 7th day of the week and set it asided from the other 6 days of the week by making the seventh day of the week HOLY. Please show me from the Bible where the 1st day of the week has been declared as HOLY by God.

Let me make this as simple for you as I can. I DID ask him to prove it from the scriptures. My point in asking him if he believed in Sola Scripta was to say I reject mere opinion on the ridiculous premise that Sunday was the Sabbath I want proof from the scriptures.. I wanted him to get off of OPINION and prove it from the final authority on the issue..the scriptures. Sola Scripta means the Bible is the Final Authority

* ThreeAM looks for his roll of duct tape to wrap his head before TheDag makes it explode*

Really just give it a rest you are making yourself look bad.

 

[tulc]

tulc,

re: "Remember they took away 10 days in the 16th century?"

As has been said, those 10 days did not interrupt the weekly cycle.

re: "For example, it is sometimes remarked that William Shakespeare and Miguel de Cervantes died on the same date, 23 April 1616, but not on the same day. England was still using Old Style dating in 1616, while Spain was using New Style. Cervantes actually died ten days before Shakespeare."

How does this interrupt the weekly cycle?

Uhmmm it doesn't, I just thought it was cool.
tulc(sorry, I'll just be over here looking for those 10 lost days...hey! maybe I can get an extra week of vacation if I find them and still have 3 days left over! score!)

 

[communityonline]

Originally Posted by: communityonline

By: Fez "(1) Sunday is the mark of the Beast"
_______________


If Sunday-Goers were murdering some one (or even thoughts of rage and anger toward any one) on that day or on any day their own actions would prove the mark of the beast.

But to go to a place to Worship and Praise God on Sunday or on any day their own actions proves the mark of God.

The Catholics says: You must Worship with us here in our building. (some what like this)

The SDA's says: You must Worship with us here in our building on the Sabbath Day. (somewhat like this,...you get the picture)

But Jesus' says: Those who Worship me must Worship me in Spirit and in Truth.

Here we go again. . . .

Have you bothered to read the whole thread before posting? If so, you should know that Seventh-day Adventists also believe that we should worship God in spirit and in truth. And we should worship Him every day. However, God set apart the seventh day and declared it holy. Those of us who keep the Sabbath the way God desires are not keeping it because we are legalists who think that we are saved by observing God's commandments. We keep it because we want to experience the blessing of spending one entire day in communion with God, throwing off all of the distractions that keep us from worshiping Him fully in spirit and in truth every other day. The Sabbath is about more than going to a church building on Saturday morning. It is about expressing our love for God.

Sophia7,

Don't forget to show the next Greatest commandment which is no less important, "Love your Neighbor" as your self; for your post seems very angry-hearted, but I'm sure it didn't mean to sound this way.

The Law was set forth so that we would embrace Jesus who is Holy so that He can conform us to being Holy, who (Jesus) is the fulfillment of "Sabbath"; each believer is fulfilling all the Law, already, just because God has placed us by Faith in Christ. No more accusations toward anyone any more. So we are all "Christians", followers of Christ and now One Family in God with no divisions and no more separated titles; just One Happy Body in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We have all looked at the Bible from an established view point handed down to us by men of long
ago, and if we remain there it will only perish but if we allow God to tear down what needs to
then we have not only true Peace with God in Worship but also in true Peace with eachother,
whether we for the moment are still calling ourselves "Catholic or SDA or Presby or Messianic etc.
".

Eph 2:14-15
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;KJV

Regarding "Our Peace":
Isa 9:6-7
Ezek 34:24-25
Mic 5:5
Zech 6:13
Luke 1:79
Luke 2:14
John 16:33
Acts 10:36
Rom 5:1
Col 1:20
Heb 7:2
Heb 13:20

 

[communityonline]

God has already, in Christ, removed all our man made titles and now calls us Son's.
All we have to do is believe and enter into Rest; The Rest that Jesus' purchased for us Who is Our Peace!

 

[Sophia7]

Sophia7,

Don't forget to show the next Greatest commandment which is no less important, "Love your Neighbor" as your self; for your post seems very angry-hearted, but I'm sure it didn't mean to sound this way.

The Law was set forth so that we would embrace Jesus who is Holy so that He can conform us to being Holy, who (Jesus) is the fulfillment of "Sabbath"; each believer is fulfilling all the Law, already, just because God has placed us by Faith in Christ. No more accusations toward anyone any more. So we are all "Christians", followers of Christ and now One Family in God with no divisions and no more separated titles; just One Happy Body in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We have all looked at the Bible from an established view point handed down to us by men of long
ago, and if we remain there it will only perish but if we allow God to tear down what needs to
then we have not only true Peace with God in Worship but also in true Peace with eachother,
whether we for the moment are still calling ourselves "Catholic or SDA or Presby or Messianic etc.".

Forgive me for sounding angry. I was just a little frustrated because these arguments have been addressed already many times, and we do get tired of having to repeat ourselves. That is why I asked if you had read the whole thread.

And, yes, the greatest commandments are to love the Lord and to love our neighbors. The Sabbath is about both; that's how Jesus kept it, and He wouldn't have made such a big deal out of teaching the Pharisees a proper understanding of how to observe the Sabbath if He intended to abolish it on the cross.

 

[communityonline]

Forgive me for sounding angry. I was just a little frustrated because these arguments have been addressed already many times, and we do get tired of having to repeat ourselves.

That's the whole point you got it,....for you don't have to keep repeating yourself, Christ has made all things ready just Teddy Bear Him alone in your arms for "Daddy" has made all things new; Rest now and Enter in the Peace that Jesus already Purchased for you. All things are already done, even just for you. And rest in what Jesus has already given you; Peace.

God loves you - it was He who already has forgiven you.
Good night and God bless.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Perhaps you could elaborate, as I am not sure where you are going with this one.

1. "The son of Man has come...to OFFER HIS LIFE as a Ransom for many..." Matt. 20: 28

2. "When Jesus took the wine, he said "Now it is finished." then he bowed his head, and delivered over his spirit."
John 19: 30

3. "...he did that once for all when he offered himself...
now he has appeared at the end of the ages to take away sins once for allby his sacrifice..." Heb. 7: 27, & 9: 26

My Question is...HOW LONG IS THE DURATION OF CHRIST'S OFFER ?.......
Was His OFFER;
1. that moment at the cross when he bowed his head and handed over his spirit?

Was His OFFER;
2. all of his 33 years of life in the flesh?

Is His OFFER ;
3. Etrnal, Perpetual, on-going for all people of all time ?


Is the Right arm of God still outstretched to us as we speak ?

How do you perceive THE DURATION OF CHRIST'S OFFER ?

Please keep it simple.
so a Sixth Grader can grasp it.

The early church was clearly still meeting in the synagogue, keeping the Sabbath.

Don't forget Acts 2: 42-47 and 15: 10

How do you "keep the Sabbath" ? what does it consist of ?
do you still sacrifice bulls and goats ?
Do yo have an Altar ?
Do you keep the "old covenant", or "The New Covenant"?