What Day Of The Week Is The Sabbath?

[holo]

Holo I think you misunderstand what the term "under the law" means.

If we are true followers of Christ the penalty for our sins has been paid in full by Christ. Even though we are sinners we are not under the death penalty of the law. Christ died for our sins so we would not be under the death penalty.

This does not mean the law is not a reflection of God's will, it simply means that Christ's flawless record will be examined instead of yours and mine. Just because were are under Christ's grace does not mean we should continue in our sins. A true Christians will submit to the will of Christ. We should strive to become more Christ like everyday. We should be obedient not to be saved [our works can not save us] We should be obedient because we love Christ.


Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

What did Paul say?

Rom 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul does not want us to continue in sin.

Well, this is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't consider myself to be under the law at all. Yet, I see no reason to sin in any way (but I stumble, as we all do). Quite the opposite, in fact: I feel more like sharing what I have, being kind, forgive, put myself aside for others, bless and pray for them and so forth. I feel like this because it's what Jesus has done for me. It has nothing to do with the law. I'm His anyway, I'm safe, I won't be judged according to the law. But His LOVE has given me a whole new standard and motivation. I don't see what I'm supposed to even use the law for.

 

[Splayd]

The law is God's standard. God didn't give it to us to keep us from Him, but rather to draw us to Him. It was never meant to be just a heap of red tape and hoops for us to jump through, rather it was a user's guide to show us how best to live. At first He gave it to us in words that we might know His will for us, then He gave it to us through Christ's example. The law was never done away with, rather the consequences of the law were done away with. When the law was written in words, He wanted us to refrain from murder, theft, imorrality etc... and embrace Him and love others. That was all part of the written law. Now that His law is written on our hearts it's no different. His will for us hasn't changed. His standards haven't changed. Sometimes our selfish desires and our Godly desires conflict and sometimes it's easy to forget which is which. His word still serves as a guide when the road isn't so clear.

Consider this: If law is done away with - sin is done away with, because sin is a transgression of the law. If there is no law, we cannot transgress it. BUT if sin is done away with, there is no need for forgiveness and Grace has no purpose. Grace is not opposed to law as some might imply, but rather Grace can only exist as long as there is law.

 

[ThreeAM]

The law is God's standard. God didn't give it to us to keep us from Him, but rather to draw us to Him. It was never meant to be just a heap of red tape and hoops for us to jump through, rather it was a user's guide to show us how best to live. At first He gave it to us in words that we might know His will for us, then He gave it to us through Christ's example. The law was never done away with, rather the consequences of the law were done away with. When the law was written in words, He wanted us to refrain from murder, theft, imorrality etc... and embrace Him and love others. That was all part of the written law. Now that His law is written on our hearts it's no different. His will for us hasn't changed. His standards haven't changed. Sometimes our selfish desires and our Godly desires conflict and sometimes it's easy to forget which is which. His word still serves as a guide when the road isn't so clear.

Consider this: If law is done away with - sin is done away with, because sin is a transgression of the law. If there is no law, we cannot transgress it. BUT if sin is done away with, there is no need for forgiveness and Grace has no purpose. Grace is not opposed to law as some might imply, but rather Grace can only exist as long as there is law.

 

[ThreeAM]

Well, this is kind of what I'm getting at. I don't consider myself to be under the law at all. Yet, I see no reason to sin in any way (but I stumble, as we all do). Quite the opposite, in fact: I feel more like sharing what I have, being kind, forgive, put myself aside for others, bless and pray for them and so forth. I feel like this because it's what Jesus has done for me. It has nothing to do with the law. I'm His anyway, I'm safe, I won't be judged according to the law. But His LOVE has given me a whole new standard and motivation. I don't see what I'm supposed to even use the law for.

You are not under the death penalty of the law as long as you are Christ's. But we still should obey Christ. True Christians are obedient that is why God inspired John to write:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

We are saved by the Grace of Christ and by His works not our own works, we are obedient because we love Christ.

 

[TheDag]

Oh I understand it. I'll ask you the same question. Please support your answer from the scriptures.

"Now show me where God has asked you to have your "Sabbath" on the 1st day of the week because of the resurrection."

My request of DeaconDean was in response to this: "Show me in the Bible, no external sources, show me in the Bible where God gave any day a specific name, and where in the Bible does it say specificly, that Saturday is the Sabbath?" DeaconDean

I can understand you asking Dean to answer only using the bible because he asked you to do that it was only because you put in front of that question/statement You believe in Sola Scripture don't you? If you were simply asking him to keep to the same sources he asked you to stick to then there is no need to put in the question about sola scripture as it has nothing to do with the discussion or what you were asking him to do. By including the question the only view could be that you didn't understand it. Seem as you say you do understand it then there was no need whatsoever for that question to be included in your post.

As for asking me to answer the same question I don't think that would be fair as I have never said that God has asked us to have our Sabbath on the 1st day of the week because of the resurrection. You are asking me to prove something I have never claimed to be true as well as something I have never agreed with in the first place.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

I'd like to know what day of the week is the Sabbath and I don't want to hear the seventh day. Is it Saturday?

...But the Sabbath Rest is with us all day every day.

 

[Splayd]

SUNDAY, the First day of the week, is the Sabbath......But the Sabbath Rest is with us all day every day.

The Catholic Encyclopedia defines Sabbath this way:

(Heb. shabbath, cessation, rest; Gr. Sabbaton; Lat. Sabbatum). The seventh day of the week among the Hebrews, the day being counted from sunset to sunset, that is, from Friday evening to Saturday evening.

Check it out: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13287b.htm

 

[ThreeAM]

I can understand you asking Dean to answer only using the bible because he asked you to do that it was only because you put in front of that question/statement You believe in Sola Scripture don't you? If you were simply asking him to keep to the same sources he asked you to stick to then there is no need to put in the question about sola scripture as it has nothing to do with the discussion or what you were asking him to do. By including the question the only view could be that you didn't understand it. Seem as you say you do understand it then there was no need whatsoever for that question to be included in your post.

As for asking me to answer the same question I don't think that would be fair as I have never said that God has asked us to have our Sabbath on the 1st day of the week because of the resurrection. You are asking me to prove something I have never claimed to be true as well as something I have never agreed with in the first place.

It is clear from this that you don't understand what sola scripture is. Sola Scripture does not say the only source is the bible but rather if something contradicts the bible then the bible is the authority on the matter. So Sola scripture believers can use other sources

I have told you that I do understand what Sola Scripta means and that should be enough for you.

You based your comments on incorrect assumptions. I was simply asking DeaconDean to back up his claims with proof from the Bible. As you indicated the scripture is the final authority. I personaly use other sources frequently but the accuracy of those sources depend on if they agree with the scriptures. My asking Deacon Dean if he believed in Sola Scripta was a way of saying you will have to prove that "Sunday is the Sabbath" from the scriptures not just from personal opinion. Please don't assume what other people understand or do not understand until you first ask them what they understand. Generaly they will be happy to clarify things for you.

 

[Carlos Vigil]

The Catholic Encyclopedia defines Sabbath this way:
Check it out: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13287b.htm

The Sabbath was a commandment given in the law of the old covenant.
It was in effect until Jesus Christ replaced the Old Covenant with The New Covenant.
"When there is a change of priesthood there is necessarily a change of law." Heb. 7: 12

The old covenant was replaced;
"because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take sins away." Heb. 10: 4

In the New Law;
"The law of the Spirit, ...the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death. " Romans 8: 2

When we enter into Christ's death through Baptism, we enter into THE SABBATH REST that still remains for the people of God. Heb. 4. 9-11

While Jesus was in his death, (during the Sabbath), he is accomplishing the largest GARBAGE HAUL in the history of the universe...
He carries away our sins.
(speaking in the language of "DIENEKES")

God raised Him on the First day of the week, the First day of The New Creation,
THIS DAY is our NEWNESS OF LIFE.

We work all week( M-F)...We rest (or play) on Saturday...
We WORSHIP THE LIVING GOD in The First Day of the New Creation.
Sunday is the Day we receive His body and blood offered for the forgiveness of our sins, ...
where our Sabbath Rest begins and is continually renewed..

But we ENTER INTO HIS REST 24/7 by being Baptized into Christ's death, and Living our life from that Base.

 

[wild01]

 

[FEZZILLA]

I believe Origen's arguments smokes, blows, and bulldozes the view that Seventh Day Adventist have on salvation by Sabbath.

Again, check out the traditional SDA section of this forum called: "Does God's grace cancel his laws" starting on page 2 through 3.

 

[Tavita]

I believe Origen's arguments smokes, blows, and bulldozes the view that Seventh Day Adventist have on salvation by Sabbath.

Again, check out the traditional SDA section of this forum called: "Does God's grace cancel his laws" starting on page 2 through 3.

No, his arguments didn't do that for me. After reading through all the posts you referred us to and through this thread, and talking to the SDA's myself, I can't find one place where they say that Salvation is earned by keeping the Sabbath. They have stated over and over in this thread alone that they DO NOT believe keeping the Sabbath will earn them or anyone else, Salvation. Maybe we should LISTEN to what they say, as well as the other Sabbatarians, before we speak.

 

[FEZZILLA]

No, his arguments didn't do that for me. After reading through all the posts you referred us to and through this thread, and talking to the SDA's myself, I can't find one place where they say that Salvation is earned by keeping the Sabbath. They have stated over and over in this thread alone that they DO NOT believe keeping the Sabbath will earn them or anyone else, Salvation. Maybe we should LISTEN to what they say, as well as the other Sabbatarians, before we speak.

For starters, I was an SDA and SDB. The SDB's are much more tolerate in that they understand salvation in terms of faith and the Holy spirit.

Curious,...are you positively sure you read all the post by Origen? Origen quotes from E.G.White and even she says that only Sabbath keepers are saved. This, of course, contradicts scripture in several places.
Do you believe that sunday is the mark of the beast? Is the resurrection an unfinished act of creation? Did Jesus not come to filfill His Fathers work? Do SDA's ever open their doors on Easter Sunday?

 

[FEZZILLA]

For starters, I was an SDA and SDB. The SDB's are much more tolerate in that they understand salvation in terms of faith and the Holy spirit.

Curious,...are you positively sure you read all the post by Origen? Origen quotes from E.G.White and even she says that only Sabbath keepers are saved. This, of course, contradicts scripture in several places.
Do you believe that sunday is the mark of the beast? Is the resurrection an unfinished act of creation? Did Jesus not come to filfill His Fathers work? Do SDA's ever open their doors on Easter Sunday?

I mean, Ellen White says that 'only' Sabbath keepers are saved. Sorry for the poorly worded post.

SDA's believe that 2000-years of Sunday keeping Christians are eternally dead. They also believe that the soul is nothing more than oxygen and electricity. They disagree with Ecc.12:7

 

[TheDag]

I have told you that I do understand what Sola Scripta means and that should be enough for you.

You based your comments on incorrect assumptions. I was simply asking DeaconDean to back up his claims with proof from the Bible. As you indicated the scripture is the final authority. I personaly use other sources frequently but the accuracy of those sources depend on if they agree with the scriptures. My asking Deacon Dean if he believed in Sola Scripta was a way of saying you will have to prove that "Sunday is the Sabbath" from the scriptures not just from personal opinion. Please don't assume what other people understand or do not understand until you first ask them what they understand. Generaly they will be happy to clarify things for you.

I will try to remember to ask for clarification in future. It would also be helpful if you could be clearer in your posts as well.

 

[Sophia7]

For starters, I was an SDA and SDB. The SDB's are much more tolerate in that they understand salvation in terms of faith and the Holy spirit.

Curious,...are you positively sure you read all the post by Origen? Origen quotes from E.G.White and even she says that only Sabbath keepers are saved. This, of course, contradicts scripture in several places.

You might have been a Seventh-day Adventist at one time, but you were obviously a very ill-informed one. There are admittedly some legalists among us, as there are in many Christian churches, but don't judge us all by your limited experience.

I don't know how many times we have to repeat it before someone gets it, but here it is again:

WE DO NOT KEEP THE SABBATH IN ORDER TO EARN SALVATION!!!

Nor do we believe that everyone else is going to hell. Origen's arguments (in the traditional SDA forum, that is) likewise show that he has no understanding of what it really means to be a Seventh-day Adventist.

This is not an Ellen White debate, so to the many Sabbath-keepers here who are not Adventist, please forgive my digression to address this one thing: Ellen White did not say that only Sabbath-keepers will be saved. On the contrary, she made it clear that she believed that there were true believers in every Christian congregation, including those who worshiped on Sunday, and that God did not condemn them for their sincere belief. She also said that no one has the mark of the beast yet--even those who worship on Sunday--in contrast to what you erroneously claim that we believe. Here is what she said regarding this:

Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth commandment, choose to observe the false instead of the true Sabbath; are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. But in the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power, the churches would themselves form an image to the beast; hence the enforcement of Sunday-keeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast and his image. {GC88 448.4}

But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath, and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before him. But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome, and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshipping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of his authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome--"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast." {GC88 449.1}

Do you believe that sunday is the mark of the beast?

I would note that Sunday is not the mark of the beast. Whether it will have anything to do with Sunday worship or not is up for debate (in another thread), but what is clear from the Bible is that the mark of the beast will be a sign of disloyalty to God. That is the underlying issue. To whom do we pledge allegiance when our faith is tested? We can disagree on how these things will play out eschatologically, but ultimately, we will just have to wait and see. Meanwhile, what is most important is that we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus so that He can prepare us for whatever happens.

Is the resurrection an unfinished act of creation? Did Jesus not come to filfill His Fathers work?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Please clarify.

Do SDA's ever open their doors on Easter Sunday?

Since we don't normally have church services on Sundays, we don't normally have services on Easter Sunday either. I don't really see how that is relevant to the topic of this thread, though. We still believe that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday; that doesn't make it the new Sabbath.

 

[Sophia7]

SDA's believe that 2000-years of Sunday keeping Christians are eternally dead. They also believe that the soul is nothing more than oxygen and electricity. They disagree with Ecc.12:7

No, we most certainly do not believe that 2,000 years' worth of Sunday-keeping Christians are eternally dead. See my previous post.

And, no, we do not believe that the soul is simply oxygen and electricity. We believe that the soul is the whole being, the whole person--the body and the breath of life together--not separate parts, one of which lives on after death. This, however, is irrelevant to this thread.

If you have a problem with Adventists, please come to our forum and discuss it. You have many misconceptions, despite your claim of having once been an Adventist yourself. I would suggest that you either learn more about our beliefs before trying to represent them to others or, if you have no interest in doing so, don't try to explain them at all because you are at best distorting them and at worst telling outright lies here.

On this thread, there are many who are not Adventists, and this is not an Adventist-bashing thread. Can you please stick to the topic at hand, which is presenting evidence as to which day of the week is the Sabbath?

 

[FEZZILLA]

No, we most certainly do not believe that 2,000 years' worth of Sunday-keeping Christians are eternally dead. See my previous post.

And, no, we do not believe that the soul is simply oxygen and electricity. We believe that the soul is the whole being, the whole person--the body and the breath of life together--not separate parts, one of which lives on after death. This, however, is irrelevant to this thread.

If you have a problem with Adventists, please come to our forum and discuss it. You have many misconceptions, despite your claim of having once been an Adventist yourself. I would suggest that you either learn more about our beliefs before trying to represent them to others or, if you have no interest in doing so, don't try to explain them at all because you are at best distorting them and at worst telling outright lies here.

On this thread, there are many who are not Adventists, and this is not an Adventist-bashing thread. Can you please stick to the topic at hand, which is presenting evidence as to which day of the week is the Sabbath?

The traditional Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. Many people still feel convicted to keep this day. However, Jesus himself is our rest and His authority is greater then Moses. Sunday is the "Lord's Day" which you'll see written in Rev.1:9-10. It is on this day Jesus rose and on this day our lives rose through His saving power. We worship on sunday because it represents our hope of our physical resurrection when Christ returns on that day of wrath and justice.

Secondly, you told Origen to come to General theology. And now you SDA's are saying to go to the SDA fourm. Which is it?

Do sunday keepers receive the mark of the beast? Where in scripture is this found? Why is it wrong for Christians to worship on the Lord's Day? Why do we have to listen to a false prophetess when the Canon is closed? Is it wrong to ask why?

 

[FEZZILLA]

The law was given by God for the sole purpose that the Christ may be born of a virgin woman. Jesus has come and we are saved by grace...not the law. The law is our understanding of exposing sin, that we may know what true Holiness is. SDA's do not keep the "Decalogue" to the letter! SDA's are more srtict than the Mosaic law!

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph.2:9).

We are all brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus. Why challedge others that eat differnt foods (Rom.14)?

 

[woobadooba]

The law was given by God for the sole purpose that the Christ may be born of a virgin woman. Jesus has come and we are saved by grace...not the law. The law is our understanding of exposing sin, that we may know what true Holiness is. SDA's do not keep the "Decalogue" to the letter! SDA's are more srtict than the Mosaic law!

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph.2:9).

We are all brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus. Why challedge others that eat differnt foods (Rom.14)?

Did you somehow skip over the content of Sophia's posts?

You must have, since it is obvious to us all that everything that you've said so far about SDAs and EGW isn't true.

Hey, any time you want to apologize for speaking lies about SDAs and EGW feel free to do so!

Slander is a sin, you know?