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What day is the Sabbath?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by thetruthseeker, Sep 26, 2002.

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  1. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    Jesus obeyed all the laws until He died on the cross and changed everything.........Yes, He had not achieved or finished His work until He said on the cross that His work was "finished" (John 19:30). He told the disciples it was important that He die so that the Holy Spirit would come (John 16:7) and after Pentecost, it did, and the disciples met on the Lords day - Sunday. What is it so difficult seeing the time line here? God promised something better and we have received it (Heb. 8:6, 10:20).

    Everything concerning our relationship to God was changed at the moment of His death. The veil was split in two (Mat. 27:51) and the Holy of Holies was forever open, and man has access to God forever through Christ's work. He is our rest - period. Lord of the sabbath even before He died. Our work is faith, and that requires us accepting Him and His discipline of the flesh. How much stress is it to the flesh to do nothing on Saturday or Sunday but sit in a pew, yet people hold this up as their as preeminent obedience to God. The Pharisee bragged to God in His prayer about how obedient he was to Him, yet the real test is when faith tells us to give expecting nothing in return or do something that makes the flesh uncomfortable. People suffer around us all the time, and like Pharisees, we say a prayer for their health and walk around them just like the Pharisees did in the parable of the good Samaritan. I hear people boast in their baptizm, and about which day they keep, yet their faith is less than that of a mustard seed in Christ and what He did for us - they have to go back and practise a religion instead of living a life like that of Paul or Jesus. Paul said to emulate him, and of course we are to follow after Christ - and that being daily in denying the flesh and picking up our own cross. It is more comfortable to sit instead of work, and the flesh will always find the least uncomfortable thing to do to show obedience to God. Faith is the tough one, and it takes refining and testing to purify it. It takes absolutely no faith to sit in a pew on Saturday. It does take faith to fuel a wheelchair van from your own pocket and go out to pick up the lame, the blind, the deaf and poor, and bring them in to worship and break bread - yet, again how many do that or think that would be a matter of obedience? None or few, yet that is what I did for many years, by faith.
    I have taken the Word of God serious for many years yet I've been taught all about obedience just by observing a day, that was to serve as a reminder of God's covenant up to the point that Jesus became our sabbath and the Lord's Supper became our remembrance of all He has accomplished with His great love and sacrifice. It is a better covenant we have yet you would practice a work that has no sacrifice to the flesh and would point to it instead of Jesus. He said that if He would be lifted up, He would draw all men unto Him (John 12:32).........Christ and Him crucified - the anointing(power of God) and the blood covenant. Why would you lead men to or point to anything other than Jesus?:

    1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
    5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

    Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    Heb. 10:19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
  2. pdwblw

    pdwblw New Member

    The Sabbath was the seventh day of the week, Saturday. God gave that commandment to the nation of Israel under the law. We are under the new covenant insituted by the blood of Jesus. The seventh day Sabbath is not binding on us as Christians. Despite what the SDA will try to tell us history did not change the day of worship the new covenant did.
  3. Claudia

    Claudia New Member

    I will break this up into 3 parts. Hopefully it will clear up the idea of the old and New Covenants...



    Adam and Eve, at their creation, had a knowledge of the law
    of God; they were acquainted with its claims upon them;
    its precepts were written upon their hearts. When man fell by
    transgression the law was not changed, but a remedial system was
    established to bring him back to obedience. The promise of a
    Saviour was given, and sacrificial offerings pointing forward to
    the death of Christ as the great sin offering were established. But
    had the law of God never been transgressed, there would have
    been no death, and no need of a Saviour; consequently there
    would have been no need of sacrifices.

    Adam taught his descendants the law of God, and it was
    handed down from father to son through successive generations.
    But notwithstanding the gracious provision for man's redemption,
    there were few who accepted it and rendered obedience. By
    transgression the world became so vile that it was necessary to
    cleanse it by the Flood from its corruption. The law was preserved
    by Noah and his family, and Noah taught his descendants the
    Ten Commandments. As men again departed from God, the
    Lord chose Abraham, of whom He declared, "Abraham obeyed
    My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes,
    and My laws." Genesis 26:5. To him was given the rite of circumcision,
    which was a sign that those who received it were devoted
    to the service of God--a pledge that they would remain separate
    from idolatry, and would obey the law of God. The failure of
    Abraham's descendants to keep this pledge, as shown in their
    disposition to form alliances with the heathen and adopt their
    practices, was the cause of their sojourn and bondage in Egypt.
    But in their intercourse with idolaters, and their forced submission
    to the Egyptians, the divine precepts became still further
    corrupted with the vile and cruel teachings of heathenism. Thereforewhen the Lord brought them forth from Egypt, He came
    down upon Sinai, enshrouded in glory and surrounded by His
    angels, and in awful majesty spoke His law in the hearing of all
    the people.

    He did not even then trust His precepts to the memory of a
    people who were prone to forget His requirements, but wrote
    them upon tables of stone. He would remove from Israel all
    possibility of mingling heathen traditions with His holy precepts,
    or of confounding His requirements with human ordinances or
    customs. But He did not stop with giving them the precepts of
    the Decalogue. The people had shown themselves so easily led
    astray that He would leave no door of temptation unguarded.
    Moses was commanded to write, as God should bid him, judgments
    and laws giving minute instruction as to what was required.
    These directions relating to the duty of the people to
    God, to one another, and to the stranger were only the principles
    of the Ten Commandments amplified and given in a specific
    manner, that none need err. They were designed to guard the
    sacredness of the ten precepts engraved on the tables of stone.

    If man had kept the law of God, as given to Adam after his
    fall, preserved by Noah, and observed by Abraham, there would
    have been no necessity for the ordinance of circumcision. And if
    the descendants of Abraham had kept the covenant, of which
    circumcision was a sign, they would never have been seduced into
    idolatry, nor would it have been necessary for them to suffer a
    life of bondage in Egypt; they would have kept God's law in
    mind, and there would have been no necessity for it to be proclaimed
    from Sinai or engraved upon the tables of stone. And
    had the people practiced the principles of the Ten Commandments,
    there would have been no need of the additional directions
    given to Moses.

    The sacrificial system, committed to Adam, was also perverted
    by his descendants. Superstition, idolatry, cruelty, and
    licentiousness corrupted the simple and significant service that
    God had appointed. Through long intercourse with idolaters the
    people of Israel had mingled many heathen customs with their
    worship; therefore the Lord gave them at Sinai definite instruction
    concerning the sacrificial service. After the completion of
    the tabernacle He communicated with Moses from the cloud of
    glory above the mercy seat, and gave him full directions concerning
    the system of offerings and the forms of worship to be maintained in the sanctuary. The ceremonial law was thus given to Moses, and by him written in a book. But the law of Ten Commandments spoken from Sinai had been written by God Himself on the tables of stone, and was sacredly preserved in the ark.

    There are many who try to blend these two systems, using the
    texts that speak of the ceremonial law to prove that the moral
    law has been abolished; but this is a perversion of the Scriptures.
    The distinction between the two systems is broad and clear. The
    ceremonial system was made up of symbols pointing to Christ,
    to His sacrifice and His priesthood. This ritual law, with its
    sacrifices and ordinances, was to be performed by the Hebrews
    until type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb of God
    that taketh away the sin of the world. Then all the sacrificial
    offerings were to cease. It is this law that Christ "took . . . out of
    the way, nailing it to His cross." Colossians 2:14. But concerning
    the law of Ten Commandments the psalmist declares, "Forever,
    O Lord, Thy word is settled in heaven." Psalm 119:89. And
    Christ Himself says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the
    law. . . . Verily I say unto you"--making the assertion as emphatic
    as possible--"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle
    shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew
    5:17, 18. Here He teaches, not merely what the claims of God's
    law had been, and were then, but that these claims should hold
    as long as the heavens and the earth remain. The law of God is
    as immutable as His throne. It will maintain its claims upon
    mankind in all ages.

    Concerning the law proclaimed from Sinai, Nehemiah says,
    "Thou camest down also upon Mount Sinai, and spakest with
    them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true
    laws, good statutes and commandments." Nehemiah 9:13. And
    Paul, "the apostle to the Gentiles," declares, "The law is holy,
    and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Romans 7:12.
    This can be no other than the Decalogue; for it is the law that
    says, "Thou shalt not covet." Verse 7.

    While the Saviour's death brought to an end the law of types
    and shadows, it did not in the least detract from the obligation of
    the moral law. On the contrary, the very fact that it was necessary
    for Christ to die in order to atone for the transgression of that
    law, proves it to be immutable.

    Those who claim that Christ came to abrogate the law of God and to do away with the Old Testament, speak of the Jewish age
    as one of darkness, and represent the religion of the Hebrews as
    consisting of mere forms and ceremonies. But this is an error. All
    through the pages of scared history, where the dealings of God
    with His chosen people are recorded, there are burning traces of
    the great I Am. Never has He given to the sons of men more
    open manifestations of His power and glory than when He alone
    was acknowledged as Israel's ruler, and gave the law to His
    people. Here was a scepter swayed by no human hand; and the
    stately goings forth of Israel's invisible King were unspeakably
    grand and awful.

  4. Claudia

    Claudia New Member



    In all these revelations of the divine presence the glory of God was manifested through Christ. Not alone at the Saviour's advent, but through all the ages after the Fall and the promise of redemption, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself." 2 Corinthians 5:19. Christ was the foundation and center of the sacrificial system in both the patriarchal and the Jewish age. Since the sin of our first parents there has been no direct communication between God and man. The Father has given the world into the hands of Christ, that through His mediatorial work He may redeem man and vindicate the authority and holiness of the law of God. All the communion between heaven and the fallen race has been through Christ. It was the Son of God that gave to our first parents the promise of redemption. It was He who revealed Himself to the patriarchs. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses understood the gospel. They looked for salvation through man's Substitute and Surety. These holy men of old held communion with the Saviour who was to come to our world in human flesh; and some of them talked with Christ and heavenly angels face to face.

    Christ was not only the leader of the Hebrews in the wilderness--the Angel in whom was the name of Jehovah, and who, veiled in the cloudy pillar, went before the host--but it was He who gave the law to Israel. [*See Appendix, Note 7.] Amid the awful glory of Sinai, Christ declared in the hearing of all the people the ten precepts of His Father's law. It was He who gave to Moses the law engraved upon the tables of stone.

    It was Christ that spoke to His people through the prophets. The apostle Peter, writing to the Christian church, says that the prophets "prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter 1:10, 11. It is the voice of Christ that speaks to us through the Old Testament. "The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10.

    In His teachings while personally among men Jesus directed the minds of the people to the Old Testament. He said to the Jews, "Ye search the Scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of Me." John 5:39, R.V. At this time the books of the Old Testament were the only part of the Bible in existence. Again the Son of God declared, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." And He added, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:29, 31.

    The ceremonial law was given by Christ. Even after it was no longer to be observed, Paul presented it before the Jews in its true position and value, showing its place in the plan of redemption and its relation to the work of Christ; and the great apostle pronounces this law glorious, worthy of its divine Originator. The solemn service of the sanctuary typified the grand truths that were to be revealed through successive generations. The cloud of incense ascending with the prayers of Israel represents His righteousness that alone can make the sinner's prayer acceptable to God; the bleeding victim on the altar of sacrifice testified of a Redeemer to come; and from the holy of holies the visible token of the divine Presence shone forth. Thus through age after age of darkness and apostasy faith was kept alive in the hearts of men until the time came for the advent of the promised Messiah.

    Jesus was the light of His people--the Light of the world--before He came to earth in the form of humanity. The first gleam of light that pierced the gloom in which sin had wrapped the world, came from Christ. And from Him has come every ray of heaven's brightness that has fallen upon the inhabitants of the earth. In the plan of redemption Christ is the Alpha and the Omega--the First and the Last.

    Since the Saviour shed His blood for the remission of sins, and ascended to heaven "to appear in the presence of God for us" (Hebrews 9:24), light has been streaming from the cross of Calvary and from the holy places of the sanctuary above. But the clearer light granted us should not cause us to despise that which in earlier times was received through the types pointing to the coming Saviour. The gospel of Christ sheds light upon the Jewish economy and gives significance to the ceremonial law. As new truths are revealed, and that which has been known from the beginning is brought into clearer light, the character and purposes of God are made manifest in His dealings with His chosen people. Every additional ray of light that we receive gives us a clearer understanding of the plan of redemption, which is the working out of the divine will in the salvation of man. We see new beauty and force in the inspired word, and we study its pages with a deeper and more absorbing interest.

    The opinion is held by many that God placed a separating wall between the Hebrews and the outside world; that His care and love, withdrawn to a great extent from the rest of mankind, were centered upon Israel. But God did not design that His people should build up a wall of partition between themselves and their fellow men. The heart of Infinite Love was reaching out toward all the inhabitants of the earth. Though they had rejected Him, He was constantly seeking to reveal Himself to them and make them partakers of His love and grace. His blessing was granted to the chosen people, that they might bless others.

    God called Abraham, and prospered and honored him; and the patriarch's fidelity was a light to the people in all the countries of his sojourn. Abraham did not shut himself away from the people around him. He maintained friendly relations with the kings of the surrounding nations, by some of whom he was treated with great respect; and his integrity and unselfishness, his valor and benevolence, were representing the character of God. In Mesopotamia, in Canaan, in Egypt, and even to the inhabitants of Sodom, the God of heaven was revealed through His representative.

    So to the people of Egypt and of all the nations connected with that powerful kingdom, God manifested Himself through Joseph. Why did the Lord choose to exalt Joseph so highly among the Egyptians? He might have provided some other way for the accomplishment of His purposes toward the children of Jacob; but He desired to make Joseph a light, and He placed him in the palace of the king, that the heavenly illumination might extend far and near. By his wisdom and justice, by the purity and benevolence of his daily life, by his devotion to the interests of the people--and that people a nation of idolaters--Joseph was a representative of Christ. In their benefactor, to whom all Egypt turned with gratitude and praise, that heathen people were to behold the love of their Creator and Redeemer. So in Moses also God placed a light beside the throne of the earth's greatest kingdom, that all who would, might learn of the true and living God. And all this light was given to the Egyptians before the hand of God was stretched out over them in judgments.

    In the deliverance of Israel from Egypt a knowledge of the power of God spread far and wide. The warlike people of the stronghold of Jericho trembled. "As soon as we had heard these things," said Rahab, "our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for Jehovah your God, He is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath." Joshua 2:11. Centuries after the exodus the priests of the Philistines reminded their people of the plagues of Egypt, and warned them against resisting the God of Israel.

    God called Israel, and blessed and exalted them, not that by obedience to His law they alone might receive His favor and become the exclusive recipients of His blessings, but in order to reveal Himself through them to all the inhabitants of the earth. It was for the accomplishment of this very purpose that He commanded them to keep themselves distinct from the idolatrous nations around them.

    Idolatry and all the sins that followed in its train were abhorrent to God, and He commanded His people not to mingle with other nations, to "do after their works," and forget God. He forbade their marriage with idolaters, lest their hearts should be led away from Him. It was just as necessary then as it is now that God's people should be pure, "unspotted from the world." They must keep themselves free from its spirit, because it is opposed to truth and righteousness. But God did not intend that His people, in self-righteous exclusiveness, should shut themselves away from the world, so that they could have no influence upon it.
  5. Claudia

    Claudia New Member




    Like their Master, the followers of Christ in every age were to be the light of the world. The Saviour said, "A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house"--that is, in the world. And He adds, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matthew 5:14-16. This is just what Enoch, and Noah, Abraham, Joseph, and Moses did. It is just what God designed that His people Israel should do. It was their own evil heart of unbelief, controlled by Satan, that led them to hide their light, instead of shedding it upon surrounding peoples; it was that same bigoted spirit that caused them either to follow the iniquitous practices of the heathen or to shut themselves away in proud exclusiveness, as if God's love and care were over them alone.

    As the Bible presents two laws, one changeless and eternal, the other provisional and temporary, so there are two covenants. The covenant of grace was first made with man in Eden, when after the Fall there was given a divine promise that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head. To all men this covenant offered pardon and the assisting grace of God for future obedience through faith in Christ. It also promised them eternal life on condition of fidelity to God's law. Thus the patriarchs received the hope of salvation.

    This same covenant was renewed to Abraham in the promise, "In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed." Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. The covenant with Abraham also maintained the authority of God's law. The Lord appeared unto Abraham, and said, "I am the Almighty God; walk before Me, and be thou perfect." Genesis 17:1. The testimony of God concerning His faithful servant was, "Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5. And the Lord declared to him, "I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee." Genesis 17:7.

    Though this covenant was made with Adam and renewed to Abraham, it could not be ratified until the death of Christ. It had existed by the promise of God since the first intimation of redemption had been given; it had been accepted by faith; yet when ratified by Christ, it is called a new covenant. The law of God was the basis of this covenant, which was simply an arrangement for bringing men again into harmony with the divine will, placing them where they could obey God's law.

    Another compact--called in Scripture the "old" covenant--was formed between God and Israel at Sinai, and was then ratified by the blood of a sacrifice. The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by the blood of Christ, and it is called the "second," or "new," covenant, because the blood by which it was sealed was shed after the blood of the first covenant. That the new covenant was valid in the days of Abraham is evident from the fact that it was then confirmed both by the promise and by the oath of God--the "two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie." Hebrews 6:18.

    But if the Abrahamic covenant contained the promise of redemption, why was another covenant formed at Sinai? In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them His power and His mercy, that they might be led to love and trust Him. He brought them down to the Red Sea--where, pursued by the Egyptians, escape seemed impossible--that they might realize their utter helplessness, their need of divine aid; and then He wrought deliverance for them. Thus they were filled with love and gratitude to God and with confidence in His power to help them. He had bound them to Himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage.

    But there was a still greater truth to be impressed upon their minds. Living in the midst of idolatry and corruption, they had no true conception of the holiness of God, of the exceeding sinfulness of their own hearts, their utter inability, in themselves, to render obedience to God's law, and their need of a Saviour. All this they must be taught.

    God brought them to Sinai; He manifested His glory; He gave them His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6. The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. Now by faith and love they were bound to God as their deliverer from the bondage of sin. Now they were prepared to appreciate the blessings of the new covenant.

    The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.

    The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ. His blood atones for our sins. His obedience is accepted for us. Then the heart renewed by the Holy Spirit will bring forth "the fruits of the Spirit." Through the grace of Christ we shall live in obedience to the law of God written upon our hearts. Having the Spirit of Christ, we shall walk even as He walked. Through the prophet He declared of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God: yea, Thy law is within My heart." Psalm 40:8. And when among men He said, "The Father hath not left Me alone; for I do always those things that please Him." John 8:29.

    The apostle Paul clearly presents the relation between faith and the law under the new covenant. He says: "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh"--it could not justify man, because in his sinful nature he could not keep the law--"God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 5:1, 3:31, 8:3, 4.

    God's work is the same in all time, although there are different degrees of development and different manifestations of His power, to meet the wants of men in the different ages. Beginning with the first gospel promise, and coming down through the patriarchal and Jewish ages, and even to the present time, there has been a gradual unfolding of the purposes of God in the plan of redemption. The Saviour typified in the rites and ceremonies of the Jewish law is the very same that is revealed in the gospel. The clouds that enveloped His divine form have rolled back; the mists and shades have disappeared; and Jesus, the world's Redeemer, stands revealed. He who proclaimed the law from Sinai, and delivered to Moses the precepts of the ritual law, is the same that spoke the Sermon on the Mount. The great principles of love to God, which He set forth as the foundation of the law and the prophets, are only a reiteration of what He had spoken through Moses to the Hebrew people: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:4, 5. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Leviticus 19:18. The teacher is the same in both dispensations. God's claims are the same. The principles of His government are the same. For all proceed from Him "with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." James 1:17.

  6. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    Hi pdwblw,

    It appears that you have not followed the thread.

    Please read the 4th and last post on the link below.


    Please let us know if you have any questions.

    Thank you.
    Your brother in Christ,
  7. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

  8. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member


    Hi Raphe.

    I've asked you to give me the verses that you wanted me to explain and I don't see them. You have not answered any one of my questions now for a number of posts. Where did Jesus give the Command that He has done away with the Sabbath? Where did Paul give the Command that the Sabbath was no more? Where did any righteous man or woman in the Bible change the Sabbath or say that it would be changed? Where do you get the example of keeping every day as the Sabbath? It is definately not Biblical. I don't see it in the Bible anywhere or in any verse that you have posted since I've been talking to you.

    Jesus kept the Sabbath (Saturday) day:

    Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day , and stood up for to read .

    Paul did not start his work until after Jesus died on the cross. After Jesus' death Paul kept the Sabbath just as all of Jesus' disciples did.

    Paul kept the Sabbath (Saturday) day:

    Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath , and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

    Nothing will be changed until heaven and earth pass away (the Second Coming) and yet still we know that we will be keeping the Sabbath in heaven--Isaiah 66:22,23

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law , till all be fulfilled.

    2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up .

    By the way, the day of Pentecost did not always fall on a Sunday.

    Did Jesus, after His resurrection, every tell the disciples that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday or to everyday? Jesus did the opposite. Just before Jesus died He told His disciples to be careful about the Sabbath after His death.

    Matthew 24:19-21 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day : For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    There are no loopholes about the sanctity of the Sabbath day in the Bible--before and after Christ .

    Are you suggesting that Sunday is sacred? Or do you still believe that everyday is the Sabbath.

    The "Lords day" or "day of the Lord" has never been discribed as the First day (Sunday) in the Bible anywhere. See for yourself , search your Bible. These phrases refer to the Second Coming of Jesus. Here are a few verses: Revelation 1:10; Isaiah 13:6; Joel 1:15; Acts 2:20 and 1 Thessalonians 5:2.

    Regarding, helping the helpless, yes, my wife and I do that too--sometimes on the Sabbath. In fact, my local church is filled with people who are very busy for the Lord. It is good to do good on the Sabbath.

    Luke 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good , or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

    Raphe, you seem to have a good heart. However, you appear to be a very sensitive person. I get the feeling that you have been hurt badly before and that you need a lot of love from the people around you. Am I right or am I just a want-to-be-know-it-all? ;) I say this because I am very busy in my community and I come into contact with a lot of different types of personalities. We live in an imperfect world--no, a wicked world (heaven's our final home). People can be very cruel and insensitive--yes, even Christians sometimes. However, the Bible tells us that we must keep our eyes on Jesus Christ--our example.

    I'm assuming that you don't go to church regulary from what you have been saying all along. If this is the case, don't be afraid to go to church. It's important. Just choose the right church. Give the Seventh Day Adventist Church a try. Look us up in the yellow pages (Adventist, Seventh Day). I'm sure that you will find kind, genuine people there who you would want to be good friends with. Visit a church this Saturday morning at about 9 or 10 AM(Sabbath). I'm very curious to see what your experience would be. Try it.

    Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    Thanks, Raphe.

    Your brother and friend in Christ,
  9. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    "Where did Jesus command that the sabbath day be done away with?", you say. Well, He didn't, but He did say that He had two new commands and you should know them.
    "Where did any righteous man or woman say that the sabbath day was done away with?", you say. Well, again, I will quote the apostle Paul when he said that if there be ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT IT IS BRIEFLY COMPREHENDED IN THIS SAYING, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Now last time I checked the sabbath day would be included in the statement, ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT. That was the apostle Paul speaking.
    Now what would be loving thy neighbor as thyself? I would take more than dressing up and going to a building on Saturday or Sunday and sitting in a pew - much more, yet that is what people want........a comfortable way to say that they are obedient. If it takes no real sacrifice or work, then that is the kind of obedience they want. The Bible says that no man hateth his own flesh, and the most practical love is love of self. We feed and nourish our bodies, clothe them, and make sure we have shelter and much more. This is love of self and loving our neighbors as ourself means that we take in to consideration these basic needs of clothing, food, and shelter, and meet them. How many churches get together and provoke each other to this type of love and obedience? How many really affect their communities and teach service to others as something God commands? He did command this by telling us to love our neighbors as ourselves, yet you will hear people treat this subject as if it were a question of ones self esteem........baloney! We are to have Christ esteem. He is our life if we are true Christians.
    The sign of the sabbath day is a vestige of a broken covenant that God made with Israel. Broken over and over to the point that they even put to death the cornerstone, their Messiah. He arose with gifts for all mankind at that time and offered salvation to the Gentiles, since the Jews rejected Him. The time of the Gentiles fast approaches its end, and God will deal one more time with His chosen, the root being that of Abraham. We, the grafted in branch, are enjoying our time of grace and have become the Jews of the heart mentioned by Paul.
    When He returns, He will ask about the love we have had and shown to those hungry, naked, and without homes. This will be His standard for obedience - not a day that He has fulfilled in Himself.
    Paul new all there was to know of the commandments and laws of God but counted it all as loss and refuse compared to the knowledge of Christ and Him crucified. He is to be lifted up and remembered in the Lord's supper as often as His disciples meet.
    Now I would have posted all these scriptures, but you've ignored them and claimed that I have been unbiblical in my presentation, before - so this time, I will let you look them up if your interested. They are there for those seeking the whole truth.
    I sincerely hope that you seek the truth and not miss it's fullness in Christ. Dying to self and learning these things is not easy, but we were created unto good works and need to quit depending upon signs, dig into the work set before us, and get some things done before the light is gone and it is too dark to work.
  10. 4thecross

    4thecross New Member

    (Galatians 3:1-2) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. {2} I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

    If all you are trying to do is follow the Law of Moses, you are in grave error. The law was given to us to show us what sin is and what righteousness is. However, as a man begins to listen to the Holy Spirit with every step throughout the day, he will eventually find that God's perfect law has been written onto his heart. But it would be God doing the work rather than the man doing it in self effort. Indeed the Law of Moses, God's law, is beautiful, but profits nothing if a man try to do it on his own.

    (John 6:63) The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

    But really:

    (Colossians 2:16-17) Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. {17} These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

    Pay close attention to that last part of verse 17: "the reality, however, is found in Christ."

    Much Grace,
  11. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    WOW!! :scratch: (We my friend are JEWS if one likes it or not? Rom. 2:28-29)
    Seventh-day Advents? There are many of us who Love the Lord that keep the Commandments! And the SABBATH IS RIGHT IN THE HEART OF THEM! He it is that said ["IF"] ye Love Me KEEP MY COMMANMENTS! (and i am not a SDA)

    And you are FLAT OUT WRONG :), period! on your COVENANT thinking!
    As the Gospel of CHRIST is ETERNAL, so is HIS COVENANT ETERNAL! Try Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20's last part. NEITHER OF THESE [ETERNALLY TRUTHS] CAN EVER BE SEPERATED! Why would God even suggest such a thing?? You are saying that it has a flaw?? You NEED TO READ REV.'S LAST FEW VERSES to understand what you are saying! "adding to or removing...name will be blotted from the book of life.

    By the way, we are told BEFORE HAND what God would do with HIS COVENANT, in Ezekiel 11:19-20. Yes, I am full aware that this only for the 'born again ones' (of Rom. 2:28-29) See Isa. 8:20 for the other "LIGHTLESS ONES" & 1 John 2:4 for the one's John was 'inspired' to say are 'LIARS and there is [NO TRUTH IN THEM]". :cry:

    You will need to do a retake befor time runs out for a heavenly home it seems? For even the Angels keep [ALL of the Word of God!] See Rev. 22:8-9! & 2 Tim. 3:16.
    And [IF] you believe the WORD of the MASTER, try Isa. 66:22-23 where His inspiration tells us that in the "NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH ... (THAT) ... FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER SHALL [ALL] FLESH COME TO WORSHIP BEFORE [ME, SAIETH THE LORD]." :bow: And what do you say?

    The Royal Covenant of James 2:10-12 has a more 'compeling' place for ALL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS after CONVERSION, and this is an O.T. prophesied [FACT]. Today the Born again believers of Acts 5:32 (ONLY ONES!) have this TRUTH, as the MASTERS INSPIRATION TELL [THEM] in 2 Cor. 3:3! "NOT IN TABLES OF STONE" (any more) "But are manifestly DECLARED TO BE THE [EPISTLE OF CHRIST]" (*letter of Christ) "IN THE FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART"

    (How ones thinks that he believes in Christ & NOT BE HIS LETTER is beyond me??? OR, would want to even 'suggest to nullify' His Authoritive LETTER? See Rom. 3:31)

    No, my friend, We serve a God that does not CHANGE! He is the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND [ETERNALLY]! ----------P/N/B/ (we ARE the problem)
  12. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    Hi Pastor N.B.,

    I will respond tonight or tomorrow.


    Your brother in Christ,
  13. npetreley

    npetreley pumpkin sailor

    I don't agree with everything in this link, but I thought it might be interesting for those of you asking questions like these.

  14. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    [You] say, EVERLASTING GOSPEL! (see Rev. 14:6 & o'yes, in the N.T. )
    'i' am a dummy Master, Everlasting means eternity, even before the other world's' does it not? :bow:

    And this Sabbath of [YOURS] that these 'new' late hatches, that you have permitted to live in a minute or so of this eternity, are saying that they know better than Thee!? (see Psalms 135:13)

    It is also interesting how short a duration that 'they' (yes Lord, 'i' know where it really originated!) say that Your EVERLASTING COVENANT is? As if there is no Royal Law in the Universe? (see Rev. 22:8-9) Wow! How did 's'atan & his evil friends undo this in heaven? No law :scratch: And Lord, i wonder why they, these 'newbies' think that you put the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden for?

    Yes Master, some do see that it is truely an Everlasting Gospel & Eternal Covenant gem, to test all of us 'professed believers' with the Mark of the Beast to see if we are really safe to save for eternity? (Na. 1:9) Just before we enter OUR LAND OF Caanan! And, we see this all in past history too huh? Ex. 16:4 'Proving us on [1] SABBATH Commandment of the 10 Commandments ONLY, to see if we are FAITHFUL of keeping them all! And verse 28?

    "How long [REFUSE YE] to keep [MY] commandments and My laws???". And this happened just before they were to enter the [BORDERS of Caanan]." The MARK OF THE BEAST WILL BE A SUNDAY SABBATH DAY TEST WORLDWIDE :wave: Interesting Lord! (give a verse You say? Dan. 7:25)

    But is this truely to be repeated Lord? Naw, most will not believe your Scripture in Eccl.! You say that, that is not my decision to make? OK. I read Isa. 55:11, and will just see how many will do the same? (You already know the answer Lord!)

    OK, Lord, I will print the verses only from Your [INSPIRATION], but You said that they are 'on milk' Lord? so they will probabbly not even read them! Well, here they are then... Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15! Master, that is so plain that they might need a Ph.D or a Rev. 3:9 minister to Laodicean'ize & GARBEL up the Truth???

    You say that it is about time for you to come & that we are IN THE LITTLE TIME OF TROUBLE NOW! WONDERFUL, that 'first part' Master!!-----P/N/B/
  15. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    Hi Pastor N.B.,

    I agree with you on the fact that the Sabbath (Saturday) is still in effect. The Bible makes this very plain. The 10 Commandments (the summary of all moral laws) are still in effect.

    The Bible no longer supports the ceremonial laws (ordinances). These ceremonial laws pointed to Jesus. They are now "nailed to the cross" (void).

    Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross ; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body is of Christ.

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


    Your brother in Christ,
  16. 4thecross

    4thecross New Member


    So do you actively observe from sundown Friday night to sundown Saturday night as the Sabbath? Do you go out to eat during that time? Do you go shopping? Do you make sure that you stay pure from engaging in worldly activities as you normally would throughout the rest of the week? Do you make sure that EVERYTHING you do is Holy unto the Lord? Do you abstain from every kind of work?

    (Galatians 3:1-3) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. (2) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? (3) Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

    (Colossians 2:16) Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

    Much Grace,
  17. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member


    Hi 4thecross,

    It appears that you have not been reading this thread and that you are just responding to an isolated post that you read. Please get the background. Read the thread and read it without bias. Your questions have already been answered. I am convinced that if you read the Bible in context, the truth about the blessings of the Sabbath will surface.

    I keep the Sabbath like Jesus did. Jesus is, after all, our example.

    Please read the 5th posting on the link below.


    Please read the 4th and 10th posting on the link below.


    Please read read the 8th posting on the link below.


    Thanks for your reply, 4thecross.

    Your brother in Christ,
  18. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

  19. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

    Hi Pastor N.B.,

    What are you saying here?


    Your brother in Christ,
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