What creationists need to do to win against evolution.

[pitabread]

Air conditioners cannot work either.

And water shouldn't freeze.

 

[MIDutch]

And water shouldn't freeze.

And no BBQ ribs.

The Cosmos might as well cease to exist if that were the case.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Okay here is a simpler article:

Read your own source.

If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.

 

[HitchSlap]

I think this poor guy just realized he's punching above his weight.

 

[pitabread]

If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.

Right, total entropy increases. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

However, if local entropy can decrease (which is again what you quoted from Wikipedia) then how is it that evolution of biological organisms is prohibited by thermodynamics?

 

[Strathos]

Entropy is not the opposite of complexity either. There is a lot more entropy in a human body than there is in a single cell.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And no BBQ ribs.

The Cosmos might as well cease to exist if that were the case.

Say it ain't so!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Read your own source.

If one steps back and looks at the entropy of this local system and the entropy from the heat pump we would still see a total increase in entropy.

How many times have I said that the total entropy increases? I always pointed out that local lowering of entropy is possible. You are reading what you want to read rather than what people post.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Right, total entropy increases. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

However, if local entropy can decrease (which is again what you quoted from Wikipedia) then how is it that evolution of biological organisms is prohibited by thermodynamics?

Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

 

[MIDutch]

Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

Wow. Just ... wow.

 

[Paul James]

Not all Christians.

"Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion." - St. Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim

It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

When pointing a gun at someone, you shouldn't really be able to see down the barrel.

 

[Al Touthentop]

How many times have I said that the total entropy increases?

You quoted what you don't understand. You still don't understand it. Entropy is not reduced by photosynthesis. The plant is still on its way to death and decay. The branches break off, the leaves fall off, the petals fall off and the DNA eventually degrades such that repair is no longer possible. That's entropy. They can grow new leaves and those leaves can collect C02 but the energy used to repair itself is "lost" energy through the process. Just as in an automobile engine.

And none of this so called "reduction of entropy" at all suggests that raw materials can spontaneously organize themselves into living machines.

 

[MIDutch]

It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.

Why?

I can still think a person can do (say) one thing right and still think everything else they do (say) is wrong.

My wife tells me this all the time (the right thing was, of course, marrying her).

The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

 

[Al Touthentop]

When pointing a gun at someone, you shouldn't really be able to see down the barrel.

That was clever.

 

[pitabread]

Tell you what smart guy, why don't you show me an air conditioner that spontaneously created itself out of the raw materials its made of. Then we can talk further about your complete misunderstanding of the law of entropy.

Or you could actually try to answer the question instead of continuing to avoid it.

(But we both know why you can't answer it.)

 

[HitchSlap]

It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.

Critical thinkers do this all the time. It's absurd to suggest that because one makes a true proposition, ergo all propositions are true. I'm bettin' you're a Trump man.

 

[pitabread]

Entropy is not reduced by photosynthesis. The plant is still on its way to death and decay. The branches break off, the leaves fall off, the petals fall off and the DNA eventually degrades such that repair is no longer possible. That's entropy. They can grow new leaves and those leaves can collect C02 but the energy used to repair itself is "lost" energy through the process. Just as in an automobile engine.

So how do plants grow in the first place?

Based on what you're trying to argue, it seems like reproduction should be impossible.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Or you could actually try to answer the question instead of continuing to avoid it.

(But we both know why you can't answer it.)

The question is not even relevant to the point that was first made. The systems you're saying have reduced entropy, are headed to death and decay and the law of entropy is a description of that. To say otherwise is to ignore the fact that all living machines and man made machines rush toward maximum entropy from the moment they're born.

To even get mired in the discussion about what sort of energy is used and stored while that mechanism works is pointless because once the thing does die, a new one does not generate itself from the raw materials that were used in its creation. And the thing itself did not jump out of the ground because the law of entropy forbids it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is interesting that you quote Augustine here, but you don't believe what he says about the need to believe the gospel of Christ. It is inconsistency to take one part of what he says to prove a point and reject the rest.

It really isn't. You misunderstood the point of quoting him. Believing in Jesus is not a requirement to understand his quote or to agree with it.