What commandments is Jesus talking about?

[ace of hearts]

I don’t see anyone saying we must keep the law to be saved. What I see is everyone saying we cannot disregard God’s commandments and expect to receive salvation.

I'm sorry that you don't.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Christian has already passed the judgment and passed in to eternal life - JN 5:24.

If you want to discuss the following passages you posted, feel free to do so.

Notice the definition of the Greek word translated to “believeth” the first 3 definitions all have a number 1 in front of them indicating that all three definitions are included in the primary definition.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

believeth

G4100


G4100


Lemma:

πιστεύω


Transliteration:

pisteúō


Pronounce:

pist-yoo'-o


Part of Speech:

Verb


Language:

greek


Description:

1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed

1) to credit, have confidence b) in a moral or religious reference

1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul

2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

3) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity a) to be intrusted with a thing

Notice the definition of the word “faith” also implies faithfulness, trustworthiness, and fidelity.

faith

G4102


G4102


Lemma:

πίστις


Transliteration:

pístis


Pronounce:

pis'-tis


Part of Speech:

Noun Feminine


Language:

greek


Description:

1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it a) relating to God

1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ b) relating to Christ

1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God c) the religious beliefs of Christians d) belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same

2) fidelity, faithfulness a) the character of one who can be relied on


Grammar:

from πείθω; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Notice the definition of the word “believer” also implies the same.

believers

G4103


G4103


Lemma:

πιστός


Transliteration:

pistós


Pronounce:

pis-tos'


Part of Speech:

Adjective


Language:

greek


Description:

1) trusty, faithful a) of persons who show themselves faithful in the transaction of business, the execution of commands, or the discharge of official duties b) one who kept his plighted faith, worthy of trust c) that can be relied on

2) easily persuaded a) believing, confiding, trusting b) in the NT one who trusts in God's promises

1) one who is convinced that Jesus has been raised from the dead

2) one who has become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and author of salvation


Grammar:

from πείθω; objectively, trustworthy; subjectively, trustful:--believe(-ing, -r), faithful(-ly), sure, true.

The passages I quoted indicate that the modern definition of the word believe is incorrect and that the Greek definitions of the word pistis, pisteuo, and pistos all imply faithfulness, trustworthiness, and fidelity which could be summed up by devotion. This is what the church has taught since the very beginning of Christianity and the early church writings reflect this teaching.

 

[mkgal1]

You're trying to say anytime Jesus opened His mouth and quoted the law He is requiring Christians (His disciples) to keep the law

No. That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm not referring to rule-keeping at all. That's my point. "The Law" merely means the first five books of Scripture. It points to Jesus. It proclaims God's desire to "dwell with His people" from the very beginning. Not IF humanity follows His rules (because we can see - especially in the OT - how miserably humanity can fail and did)....yet God still followed through with His promises.

Unless a person actually studies the OT, though, they aren't going to grasp the extravagant love He has demonstrated for us - nor His sovereignty (which provokes trust and fidelity).

 

[mkgal1]

Which if any of these passages promote the keeping of the law for the Christian?

All. Every single one of them.

"The Law" is love. That's the message from Genesis to Revelation. That's the message Jesus was incarnated to deliver and demonstrate. Ironically - while you're railing against rule-keeping - you also don't seem to be able to let go of the idea. IOW - you seem to fail to recognize there's an alternative to rule-keeping. To "abide in His love" isn't checking tasks off a list. Remember 1 Corinthians 13? If we do all these things - yet don't have love - it's worthless.

 

[mkgal1]

Jesus discussed the law with those of His day. In those discussions Jesus did quote the law. You're trying to say anytime Jesus opened His mouth and quoted the law He is requiring Christians (His disciples) to keep the law.

As I've already posted - the first testament isn't about a "to-do" list for mankind. It's about God, His purpose for humanity, and His desire to dwell with us for eternity.

I'm not referring to rule-keeping. Or requirements.

When Jesus spoke, He typically led His audience back to the first testament (of which they would pick up on certain phrases). When He used the phrase "Son of Man", He was pointing them back to a specific prophecy....when He spoke in the Synagogue (recorded in Luke 4) He quoted Isaiah's passage about the anointed One bringing Good News to the poor, that captives will be released, that the blind will see, that the oppressed will be set free, and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come....when He cleared the Temple both times, He was acting as High Priest (and those that witnessed these things were aware - because they knew Leviticus)....He spoke of resurrection, and referred back to the first testament (recorded in Matthew 22:31–32, Mark 12:26, 27, Luke 20:37-38)......when Jesus said, “Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners” (recorded in Matthew 9:13) He was quoting Hosea 6:6 (which states: "I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices. I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings"). "Go and learn" was the practice of their day to study Scripture - one lived it...they literally mimicked their Rabbis way of living. Jesus was encouraging them - I believe - to "walk in the ways of love" as God had always wanted. Jesus quoted from the prophet Malachi (Malachi 3) to demonstrate that John the Baptizer was a messenger of the Lord that was prophesied. He also quoted the Psalms a great deal - like Psalm 110, Psalm 118:22-23, 26; Psalm 57:1; Psalm 61:4; Psalm 82:6-7.

So....ISTM....that His quotations were to, first, grab their attention (kind of like how, in our modern day, a specific musical melody can ring familiar or how we can recognize a line from a song) - and then to give them the true meaning of those passages. And, maybe the most important, to proclaim that He was their Messiah.

Again.....none of that is about rule-keeping (but it's in reference to the OT). Clearly, you're misunderstanding my posts, if you believe I'm posting about requirements. I believe God desires for us to love Him freely. Love isn't even love if it's under compulsion.

 

[mkgal1]

I don’t see anyone saying we must keep the law to be saved. What I see is everyone saying we cannot disregard God’s commandments and expect to receive salvation.

Exactly.

I guess a person needs to consider what the word "salvation" even means to begin to understand that.

 

[mkgal1]

.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by sharing this?

To me, it seems like it's similar to showing that - just prior to the year 2000 - people were storing up supplies for impending doom or some sort of apocalypse. The fact that there are groups of people that are following misguided teaching doesn't prove the validity of the teaching itself (or that it's mainstream). It just proves that people can be misled....and often ARE. It also proves that there are extremists in all religious groups. That's ONE group of people that call themselves "Jews". Would you appreciate it if people used the Westboro Baptist group to define all of Christianity? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[mkgal1]

NTL why you think it's important for everyone to know that is beyond me. What is recorded in Acts is enough for me. Salvation is by faith.

Because you had posted that the OT never mentions anything about eternal life.

And you also posted:

Not a single thing in the NT promotes the law

...."the Law" isn't commandments. It's the only Scripture God's people had prior to the writings of the New Testament. The entire NT "promotes" it (but you seem to want to toss it all away). My point has been that it's critical for us, as Christians. It's part of God's history with His people.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Which if any of these passages promote the keeping of the law for the Christian?

SMH

 

[mkgal1]

SMH

Actually - I think I'm BMH more

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Actually - I think I'm BMH more

That too...

 

[BABerean2]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by sharing this?

To me, it seems like it's similar to showing that - just prior to the year 2000 - people were storing up supplies for impending doom or some sort of apocalypse. The fact that there are groups of people that are following misguided teaching doesn't prove the validity of the teaching itself (or that it's mainstream).

You got it.

If you can find anything in the Bible about twirling a chicken over your head, we would all like to see it.

.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Really? You don't even reference any NT passages and refer to Hillel, not Yeshua (Jesus). I just don't see your claim validating you follow Jesus.

You don't see much do you.... Here is that quote again...does it sound familiar?

“What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbor.”

Leviticus 19:18 ?????????????????
Matthew 7:12 ???????????????????
Luke 6:31 ??????????????????????
Luke 10:25-28 ?????????????????????

 

[mkgal1]

You got it.

If you can find anything in the Bible about twirling a chicken over your head, we would all like to see it.

.

I'm still confused. I'm fairly certain there's no one in this thread that believes there is anything about that in the Bible. If that book you mentioned is about this small group featured in that video - then I believe the author is misrepresenting mainstream Judaism (which, IMO, shouldn't even be brought into this discussion as we're talking about Jesus' day and ancient Judaism. It muddies the waters to bring in modern beliefs and groups of people). That just seems off topic to me. It seems this topic is difficult enough on its own - there shouldn't be extraneous issues brought in, too.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You got it.

If you can find anything in the Bible about twirling a chicken over your head, we would all like to see it.

.

Again, so what? What was your point regarding this on the discussion we were having? That some Jews have strange practices? Some Christians do too...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

IOW you're prevented from keeping the law. You must do all of it if you do any of it.

That is because you don't understand it. NOBODY, not even Yeshua can keep ALL of it...because ALL of it does not and can not pertain to any one person.

 

[BABerean2]

Again, so what? What was your point regarding this on the discussion we were having? That some Jews have strange practices? Some Christians do too...

The point is that some of us are following the same source of "truth" that they are following. (Babylonian Talmud)

.

 

[BABerean2]

That is because you don't understand it. NOBODY, not even Yeshua can keep ALL of it...because ALL of it does not and can not pertain to any one person.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

.

Yeshua is the mediator of the NC. I already know this.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The point is that some of us are following the same source of "truth" that they are following. (Babylonian Talmud)

.

Again, you are just repeating the same thing...nothing new. Go back to reading your conspiracy theorist neo-Nazi swill...

Here is that quote again...does it sound familiar?

“What is hateful to you do not do to your neighbor.”

Leviticus 19:18 ?????????????????
Matthew 7:12 ???????????????????
Luke 6:31 ??????????????????????
Luke 10:25-28 ?????????????????????