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"I and my Father are One" ~ John 10:30
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
John 5:30 ~ I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
That's agreeable.John is providing a written record of Jesus' theme - just as my Father....so am I. Jesus was addressing unity - not creating a division.
John 15:9 ~ As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.
John 15:5 ~ "I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without Me.
You were probably misunderstanding me because of your presumptions, is my guess. I think that's the case for a lot of the disagreement in this thread.This is a much different kind of post from your first few. What happened?
No, but you miss LK 24:44I'm curious.....those of you that are so adamant about the Law having nothing to do with us, modern-day Christians.....has this occurred?
Matthew 5:18 ~ For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
"I and my Father are One" ~ John 10:30
What I mean is that we can fulfill the law every day by how we live.Do you mean when we're in union with Christ? As His body?
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love does no harm to a neighbor.
Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
The words "My commandments", are not the same as the words "My Father's commandments", in John 15:10.
Notice the word "Father's" in the second part of the passage.
What do you think?
"I and my Father are One" ~ John 10:30John is providing a written record of Jesus' theme - just as my Father....so am I. Jesus was addressing unity - not creating a division.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
John 5:30 ~ I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.
John 15:9 ~ As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.
John 15:5 ~ "I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without Me.
We've established that. But, in the context of this conversation, it seems as if you're assigning the Old Testament to the Father and assigning the New Testament to Jesus (and, in doing so, you're dividing up the Trinity). The New Covenant was always the plan - from the beginning (as it says in John 1:1). Christ and the Father are One. They have the same will.The New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.
I've not said the Old Covenant and the New Covenant are one - just that the Father and Son and Holy Spirit are one.The Old Covenant and the New Covenant cannot be one and the same, based on a clear contrast between the two covenants which is found in the New Testament. Confirmation of the contrast between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is found below.
That's a good question - and I'm working that out. I'm also confused by "glory as passing away" and wonder what was meant by that.2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
(Why did Paul compare the ten commandments to a ministry of death?)
..... without God’s law presenting itself as a “ministry of death” we would never realize that we are under the “Law of Sin and Death” and thus require a savior. If we never realize that we need a savior, then we would remain deceived in the Law of Sin without the Law of God.
Paul was clear that it was actually the glory, or esteem of the law, that was being brought to an end.
2 Corinthians 3:7-8
…because of its glory, which was being brought to an end…
What we then learn is that it is not the Law of God that was brought to an end, but the glory of the law was brought to an end because of Israel’s disobedience. The law has glory when we do it. When we sin and break the law of God it profanes the Word of God, His law. It removes the glory of the law. So the problem is disobedience, which reduces the glory of God’s law.
We also learn that the glory of the law is to be restored, and we are told that this time it will be both greater and lasting in the New Covenant. We are told that this is done through the “ministry of the Spirit.”
This is why Paul references the Spirit in Romans 8 as contrary to the “Law of Sin and Death”: ~ 2 Corinthians 3:7-8 – Exactly What Came to an End, the Glory or God’s Law?
Your argument here doesn't make sense to me. On one hand you're stating that the instruction in the Torah (the Old Testament first five books) is "bondage" and "the ministry of death" and gone.....and then seem to be arguing that Jesus' - even MORE stringent instruction - is freedom (but it's based on the foundation of the Law - the instruction given in the Torah).Later in Matthew chapter 5 Christ contrasts the two covenants below with the words “But I say…”
Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.
Quoting 119 Ministries:
What about our other relationships?
Do you not believe that God is concerned with how we treat others? I seem to recall Jesus speaking about this - the importance of how we treat people? Is it not "failing" as a Christian - somewhat - when a Christian wife cheats on her husband (commits adultery)? Sure.....there's the redemption of God (and His forgiveness) - but certain words and behavior have an effect on others (and sometimes the hurt is far too deep that others just can't trust us again - a line was crossed that they never expected - and the damage/the consequence of that sin is a death of the relationship). Shouldn't we have that reverence in our behaviour with other people?
From testimony, I'm sure my dad committed adultery and never confess and my mother forgave him without this confession to her. My mother said I do and meant every single word of it to the end. That is true Christianity.
Can you address what I posted - and show me what you disagree with and why. You seemed to have zeroed in on the words "Hebrew Roots" in the link and dismissed my entire post based solely on that.They are modern day Judaisers (Hebrews Roots) who ignore the verses found below.
I can't find anywhere on their site where it's suggested one must convert to Judaism in order to be saved ¯\_(ツ)_/¯They are modern day Judaisers (Hebrews Roots)
(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision, because it was something he did bear.)
I am not the one calling the Sinai Covenant "bondage", in Galatians 4.
It was Paul who did that in Galatians 4:24-31.
Do you believe what Paul said?
No - my disagreement is with YOUR interpretation of what Paul wrote.I am not the one calling the Old Covenant a "ministry of death engraved on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
That would also be the Apostle Paul.
Your disagreement is with Paul, instead of me.
So now you're attacking Catholicism (and promoting videos with guys saying that Catholics are NOT "biblical Christians")? Not good, BABerean. Not in my opinion. Your circle of influence is certainly narrowing.They are modern day Judaisers (Hebrews Roots) who ignore the verses found below.
Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision, because it was something he did bear.)
Act 15:24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law"—to whom we gave no such commandment—
I am not the one calling the Sinai Covenant "bondage", in Galatians 4.
It was Paul who did that in Galatians 4:24-31.
Do you believe what Paul said?
I am not the one calling the Old Covenant a "ministry of death engraved on stones" in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
That would also be the Apostle Paul.
Your disagreement is with Paul, instead of me.
.
Nope - they do not ignore that passage. They addressed all of Acts 15 here:They are modern day Judaisers (Hebrews Roots) who ignore the verses found below.
Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
If the issue was just about a physical circumcision then the apostles reply, did not answer the question that was asked.The issue wasn't circumcision on its own - it's that they (the Judaizers) were saying it was necessary in order to be saved.
Acts 15:
The Council at Jerusalem
15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
You most likely have a works centered salvation. In this respect Jesus does make it harder to do. But what you seem to not understand is works has nothing to do with salvation in the Gospels or letters of Paul. I'm particularly fond of the Gospel of John and two letters of Paul - Romans and Galatians. Yes I also like and believe the rest of the Scripture.Your argument here doesn't make sense to me. On one hand you're stating that the instruction in the Torah (the Old Testament first five books) is "bondage" and "the ministry of death" and gone.....and then seem to be arguing that Jesus' - even MORE stringent instruction - is freedom (but it's based on the foundation of the Law - the instruction given in the Torah).
IOW.....just to give an example: If I said to my child, "I want you to come home tonight" (that would represent the Torah's instruction - instruction you're calling bondage and ministry of death)....but then my husband tells our child, "I want you home at 10PM" (that would compare to the more stringent instruction of Jesus - which you're saying is NOT bondage and nothing to do with the original instruction given). That's just like saying Dad's instruction was nothing like the instruction I'd given. That my instruction was done away with. We BOTH want for our child to not stay out all night. We have the same desire. But you are suggesting my original instruction is bondage, but my husband is the one that gave stricter instruction.
How can that be?
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