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A qualified yes and we already passed.Well written and I agree to some extent.
I would require a more precise explanation of what you mean by 'moral law'.
What law are we judged by?
Are Christians judged?
You can't show me the scripture???
Please explain 1 JN 1:6-9. ThanksThen why did you agree to post #179. This post says you don't agree.
As far as 1 John 2:1, if that is the text you are alluding to (who knows???), there is no mention of repentance, so what type of sin do we commit that we don't know about in order to repent? Not all sin is "willful sin = lawlessness."
Is John confusing us with contradictions? 1 John 3:9. What type of sin does a Christian never commit because of being filled with the Holy Spirit? Do the teachings of "sin is sin" hold water or hot air.
The first thing you have to do for understanding is define the word "under." After that I would be willing to discuss your post.WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE UNDER THE LAW?
How so? The essence of your post is about serving the law.Your not responding to anything you are quoting from. How about you read the post you are responding to instead of making things up?
You must not be reading what you posted. It's so bad I wonder if much of what you post isn't c&p stuff form some outside source.Who said keeping God's LAW (10 commandments) is a requirement for salvation? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation why pretend that they have? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation then why make up things no one is arguing about?
This is a c&p I already responded to. It's a double minded statement. You say gift and require works which makes it wages.We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
Already responded to this frequent c&p job.According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
dittoAccording to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.
dittoWho then do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God or men *ROMANS 3:4. Yep I know who I believe. You provide your own words. My words are not my own but God's WORD. It is the Word of God that will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.
Please quote and reference any place I said or implied it's ok for Christians to sin.Now brother you admit in your own words that it is not ok for Christians to sin. This is correct. If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is then what are you talking about?
Do you deny this is in your post from which I copied it -Your not responding to anything you are quoting from. How about you read the post you are responding to instead of making things up?
Here it is again. I got it memorized.Who said keeping God's LAW (10 commandments) is a requirement for salvation? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation why pretend that they have? If no one has ever told you that keeping God's LAW is a requirement for salvation then why make up things no one is arguing about?
We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.
According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.
According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.
Follow God of course. Why do you insist I don't follow Jesus when you demand I follow the law?Who then do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God or men *ROMANS 3:4. Yep I know who I believe. You provide your own words. My words are not my own but God's WORD. It is the Word of God that will be our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.
I don't sin in not following the covenant made with Israel alone after departure from Egypt. Jeremiah says very plainly this isn't the new covenant.Now brother you admit in your own words that it is not ok for Christians to sin. This is correct. If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is then what are you talking about?
Hope this helps.
WOW! I quoted your whole post and ask you a question about it.Read the post you are quoting from and what was being responded to. It does not say what your talking about so why pretend otherwise?
You must have a personal problem.You do not read the posts anyones posts do you.
Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ROMANS 3:4
Evidently not according to your idea. Now why would you be asking for my wrong idea?Do you know what Grace is and what Grace is for? What is Grace in your view?
Thanks Oscarr. I don't link because of to many problems. From my stance I'm only protecting people. On this site typing a full reference makes it an automatic link, so I don't do it.You mean Galatians 5? (Just so we can link to it)
Well written. At my point all I can do is cause people to want to be around me because of my behavior and hope for an opportunity to lead them to Jesus. Religion causes a stiff resistance to Jesus and closes many doors.I think that what we often miss is that the whole and exclusive mission of the Holy Spirit in the world is to get as many lost sinners saved as possible. When we fully know that, we realise that much of our spiritual lives and Christian activities have been entirely selfish - serving our own interests instead of the interests of lost souls.
All we have to do is see many posts of CF where Christians have been more concerned about themselves and their state with God, than for the lost souls around them. There seems to be many questions about relatively unimportant doctrines, but not many questions about how we can more effectively reach the lost and get them converted.
If we are merely following our own religious self interests and that of the "Christian club" that we happen to attend instead of equipping ourselves in prayer and ability to reach lost souls for Christ, then we are coming well short of true obedience to Christ. His project is to seek and save that which is lost. That is the foundation and purpose of His government. This is the great thread that runs through the whole Bible. It was why the Bible was written in the first place.
If we go contrary to the government of our country, we risk being prosecuted, fined or imprisoned for not obey the law of the land. So how much more will we have to pay a penalty if we go against God's government?
Being involved in religious projects that have no relation to getting lost souls converted and saved, is going against the project that God has for this lost world. The Scripture says that the work of God is that we believe on Him whom He has sent. This means that our main project in life is for the good of others, namely to get lost souls to believing in Christ, converted and saved.
I think we all have to take responsibility for the time we have wasted in pursuing selfish projects. I'm not talking about normal living and earning an income which we all have to attend to. But, instead of spending all our time in prayer for ourselves and our families, we need to think about those who are going to hell all around us. This is what I am being challenged with at present. Do I have a passion and a concern for the lost? Do I spend more time praying for those acquaintances and friends who are on the road to hell? Would my prayers for them make the difference between heaven and hell for them?
The point is, are we REALLY obeying the commands of Jesus, or are we just playing church?
For a start, would it make a significant difference if we got our diaries out and wrote a list of the names of every person we know who is unsaved, and prayed for them every day? I wonder then, what opportunities would arise to present the gospel to them, and would they be more open to receive it because of our prayers (without ceasing) for them?
Something to ponder.
Jesus addresses this with Nicodemus and Paul gives technical instruction in Rom 10:9-10.Thanks for your post brother. May I ask some more questions for clarification before answering this post?
1, What makes a Christian a Christian?
2, God's people are in EVERY Church living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. JESUS says many sheep I have from other folds and he must bring them and that the hour is coming and now is that all those who wish to worship God must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23. JESUS also says that all those why follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Where is God calling His people back to?
3, Who are the lost and why are they lost?
4, Who is God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT?
5, Who are the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL and does God want us to save them through his Word *MATTHEW 10:6?
6, What part of God's WORD is not important and what is it that we need to be converted to *MATTHEW 13:13-16?
7, If we knowingly follow the teachings and traditions of men that lead others to break the commandments of God are we in a saved state before God or an unsaved state before God?
Thanks for the clarification. You do not have to answer these questions brother if you do not wish to. If you can however you already have a response to your post.
God bless.
I love posts like yours because I enjoy answering well set out questions instead of trying to make sense of a whole mish-mash of ideas.
I like this answer brother as it discribes the process of becoming a Christian and the role that God's LAW (10 Commandments) has in Grace. I will only add a simplified version of your answer and that is FAITH makes a Christian *JOHN 3:16-21. Faith is when we solely rely on the WORD of GOD alone to do what it says it will do. A Christian therefore is someone that BELIEVES and FOLLOWS God's WORD *ROMANS 3:4.A genuine Christian convert is one who knows how sinful he (both genders included) is and how totally deserving of hell. Then he abandons all confidence and hope that he can make himself acceptable to God and falls totally on the grace and mercy of God through faith in Christ as his total Saviour. Jesus can only be a Saviour if the sinner knows what horrible future he has been saved from. Then he lives his life for the glory of Christ and the common good of all.
I am answering this section here with these scriptures in mind *1 CORINTHIANS 10:11; ECCLESIASTES 1:9; MATTHEW 4:4; 2 TIMOTHY 3:16; JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23.*MATTHEW 15:3-9 in relation to the question where is God calling his people where ever they may be back to? This questions follows on from the earlier question on what makes a Christian which we answered FAITH alone in God's WORD. A Christian being all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.Jesus spoke those words to the Samaritan woman in around 30-odd AD. This was fulfilled after His death, resurrection, ascension, and the Day of Pentecost. As Christian believers, we are now worshiping God in Spirit and in truth. A person can belong to a church and still worship God in Spirit and in truth regardless of the traditions that church may have. But a person who puts his church tradition as a prominent part of the foundation of his religious observance may not be worshiping Christ in Spirit and in truth. He may be worshiping his church instead.
Jesus was alluding to the Gentiles who were to come to Christ, as the sheep from other folds. Remember that He was talking to a Samaritan woman who did not include Gentiles in the family of faith as she saw them. The Jews believed that in order to be right with God Gentiles had to adopt Judaism. But after Pentecost, it was demonstrated that the Holy Spirit fell on Gentile believers the same as Jewish ones. That was Peter's account to the Apostles in Jerusalem. Also, Paul testified the same to the Apostles when he went to confer with them over the conflict in the Gentile churches with Jewish believers trying to teach a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.
The difference between a believer worshiping a church or worshiping Christ is that if something goes wrong with their church, the church worshipers tend to lose their faith and many times leave the church and Christ as well. The Christ worshipers maintain their faith in Christ regardless of what happens in their church.
I guess a lot of Catholics might lose confidence in the Church and depart from the faith because of the conviction of Cardinal Pell. But the Christ worshipers in the Catholic church will maintain their faith in Christ and see that the fault is in the man and not the Church.
This is just a simplified answer to the question who are the lost. The lost are the opposite of those who are Christians and that is all those who do not know or BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *JOHN 3:16-21.Because Adam disobeyed God, sin came into the world and the spirits of his descendants died, and their hearts were changed to choose sinful practices instead of godly ones. This is because when the spirit of the person died, their fellowship with God died with it. Therefore, every single human being after Adam was subject to condemnation, the wrath of God against sin, and totally deserving of hell. But, as we see in the Biblical account, there was a thread of people who looked to God in faith, and received grace. Abraham believed God and he was declared righteous. All those who had faith in God were looking forward to the Redeemer who was going to appear in the future. Therefore, a lost person is one who chooses sin rather than having faith in Christ. It is natural for a person to choose sin, therefore it needs for the Holy Spirit to intervene and show them their total sinfulness and that they are on the road to hell. When they are convicted of their sin and choose to start praying and crying out to God, the Holy Spirit shows them the gospel and opens their hearts to it and leads them to Christ. Once they exercise faith in Christ, they are no longer lost.
Correct brother I will not add more to this one accept to add that everything we are talking about now is applicable to God's Church today (all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD) where ever they may be.Simple. Every person who is genuinely converted to Christ, both Jew and Gentile. Believing Jew and Gentile are merged to make up the one spiritual Israel.
Remember God' ISRAEL today are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. A JEW is not one outwardly but he is a JEW which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29.They are the Jews who do not yet believe in Christ as their Saviour and Lord.
All of God's Word has importance. But we need to determine which parts of it are written FOR us and which are written TO us. Those parts that are written FOR us are there for our learning and education to see how God works with people and how people are blessed when they have faith in God and how they get into problems when they walk away from God. But many of the promises of God to His people may be FOR us, but we can take them as if they are TO us because they are effective for anyone who has faith in God. Much of the life and teaching of Christ is written FOR us and not necessarily directly TO us, although we can take the teaching on board as the standards of holiness that God expects of His children. Most of what Paul has written is TO us, because they provide direct instructions to the churches that he visited and wrote to. Anything that Paul has written to the churches must apply to us because we are members of the same body of Christ as they were. We see the standards of holiness in the teaching of Jesus, and we then see how we apply those standards to our lives through the teaching of Paul.
Jesus said in Mark 7:13 that the traditions the Jews followed made the Word of God of no effect to them. He implied that those who put the traditions of men first cannot be saved. I agree. We cannot have Christ as Lord and have the traditions of men as our foundation at the same time. There is nothing wrong with tradition, but it must be kept to its right place. If it is used to strengthen our faith in Christ then it does no harm; but if if takes the place of faith in Christ where a person is taught that he cannot have faith in Christ unless he adheres strictly to the traditions, then the teaching is false and harmful. I believe that if someone is knowingly teaching and encouraging others to follow the traditions of men as a requirement for Christian faith, then they are working against the gospel instead of for it. They are, in fact, pointing others along the road to hell, and I would not be surprised if those teachers ended up in hell themselves, unless the Holy Spirit intervened and showed them the foolishness and unrighteousness of their actions.
Jesus addresses this with Nicodemus and Paul gives technical instruction in Rom 10:9-10.
Please explain 1 JN 1:6-9. Thanks
But it is a bit of a twist to say that because Paul identifies himself as the worst of sinners that he is still killing Christians. He says in the present tense that there is nothing good in him, that is in his flesh. So when he talks of himself as being the worst of sinners he is speaking of the state of his flesh.
You will find this quite amusing. I am reading Charles Finney's "Experiencing the Presence of God". He talks about what happens when a person comes under conviction of sin, and he relates Paul's experience in Romans 7 as him coming under conviction of sin and then reaches out to Christ and become converted. Then Paul goes on to say that the Spirit of life in Christ has set him free from law of sin and death.People who claim Paul said we would never stop being sinners brings up that verse, but the verse is referring to his life just before Christ. When I said is he still killing Christians, that was facetious. But the main thing is it wasn't his PRESENT condition, even though he WRITES in a style that is.
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