What causes sickness?

SnuP · Feb 26, 2003

You have to come in contact with Jesus in order for His power to be released. Most people don't want to pause long enough to even see Jesus in their circumstance, never mind bring healing. The other thing to realize is that all sickness is a simptom of a greater problem. Deut. clearly points that out. Most people don't want the real problem dealt with they just want the simptoms dealt with. But Christ deals with all or none usually.

SnuP · Feb 26, 2003

Today at 11:29 AM Br. Max said this in Post #40

you are so caught up in incidents of life that you are missing the substance.

No.  The majority of what you said is true.  Healing does come from relationship.  (see my signature)  But being able to bear sickness is not the work of Christ, because you are still in the bondage of that sickness.  Why would you think that God want sickness to come before His throne?  If Deut is true than sickness comes from a curse.  Does God want a curse in His presence?

SnuP · Feb 26, 2003

Today at 01:52 AM Terri said this in Post #35

SnuP I feel free.  I feel great joy because of my freedom.  I trust God for everything.  I know I am not under any law.   

But, what is your definition of free?  Perhaps I am missing something. 

Please take it point by point--not too much at once--so it can sink in.

I too feel very free, but the more I learn about my self and what God desires for me the more I can see the bondage in my life. 

Compared to most people I'm a very happy loving joyous person, yet we all seem to struggle with somethings. 

Habbitual ways of thinking that are reationary rather that the fruit of the spirit.  Frustration, anger over little things, complaining, depression.  All are the results of humanities failing efforts to deal with their situation.  This is legalism.  Everyone has a little legalism in them, us trying to do what we believe to be right.

Freedom is what is depicted by Jesus in the surmon on the mount.  The lifestyle of non-worrying, a complete abandonment of our desires to the presence and fellowship of God.  It is haveing a constant awareness of God and His comunication.  It is watching God and doing what He is doing.  It is not worrying about weather it is right or wrong ever, but only weather God want it done and when.  It is a real relationship with God and His church, a relationship that consist of mutual conversation, the expression of ideas, feeling, and love from both parties and the connection to God on every level, Spiritual, soulical, and physical.  Experiencing His reality on all levels and His interaction.  Anything less is not freedom.

SpiritPsalmist · Feb 26, 2003

Something God showed me as I was thinking about this thread last night . .

There was a time, many years ago, when I thought the best thing to put on a burn was butter. I would have swore by that method. However, now I've learned that butter is actually a very bad thing to put on a burn.

What is actually a very good thing to put on a burn, immediately, is ice. I've burned myself pretty bad a couple of times in the kitchen and right away stuck my hand in the freezer and barely even retained a red mark from the burn, much less blistering, etc.

I asked God to remind me of some of the burns where I put butter on it. I don't remember anything really major but I do remember the burn marks staying red and sometimes blistering, and scaring.

Anyway, getting to the point. When we get burned by the enemy if all we want to do is learn to cope with it, then it is like the application of butter. What follows is emotional and physical irritation that more often than not forms blisters and creates scars that are seeable and feelable to not only you but to everyone around you.

It is not a situation for anyone to judge. As humans we all are susceptible to the tiniest of openings in our armor that will let the enemy get a foothold. Check out the story in 1 Kings, chapter 22.

Ahab and Jehosaphat went to war against Syria. Ahab, being a coward, told Jehosaphat that he would disguise himself in armor instead of his royal robes. But he told Jehosaphat to wear his royal robes.

In the meantime the king of Syria, had told his men to attack only Ahab, the king of Israel. When they saw Jehosaphat they thought he was Ahab and began shooting at him, but Jehosaphat cried out, identifying himself.

The army of Syria withdrew. However, some lone bowman, just for the heck of it, shot his arrow. Here is verse 34 (Amplified) "But a certain man drew a bow at a venture and smote [Ahab] the king of Israel between the joints of the armor."

Between the joints of Ahabs armor there was an opening. An arrow of the enemy found it's way to that exact point and Ahab bled to death.

All of us are told to put on the armor of God (Eph 6:13-18). We can have that armor on yet still there may be a very small opening for the arrows of the enemy to get through.

If an arrow gets through there is a means of taking care of it. We don't have to bleed (life of the body) to death.

First it's realizing that the enemy has gotten a foothold somewhere. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where. He is faithful to do that. Once He's shown you, do what is necessary to close the breach so no more arrows get through. Then begin applying the "washing of the water of the Word" (Eph 5:25-27). Remember the ice?

The washing of the Word sanctifys and cleanses, that "He might present us to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing: but that it should be holy and without blemish".

That does not mean that we may not have to wait on the manifestation in the flesh, but we can wait with patience, perseverience, hope, and expectaion, for our complete healing and that He will faithfully see through to the end what He has started. (Rom 8:33-39)

Terri · Feb 26, 2003

I believe the turning point for me in my illness was when I accepted that I might die from my illness.  I decided I was going to live or to die with the Lord.  I feel I indeed felt the sentence of death--but this happened that I might not rely on myself but on God, who raises the dead.

2CO 1:8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. 9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. (I know this verse is talking about persecution but, I believe that God uses all circumstances to make us stronger in him and this verse applies to everyone.)

I believe that this total trust in God whether I lived or died is what made it possible for God to start me on a process of healing.  I came to believe that whether I lived or died was not important--my total trust in God was what was important.  I still believe that!  I can truely rejoice that I completely know in my heart that to live is Christ and to die is gain.  I do desire more than I can say to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far!  This is not God's will for me since I am still here.

PHP 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

Terri · Feb 26, 2003

After I put my complete trust in God as explained in my previous post, then God began to work on my thinking. 

As SnuP pointed out we all have ways of thinking that are harmful to us.  God showed me that any thought that is contrary to what the bible says is harmful. 

One example...you are always hearing from the worlds point of view that certain foods are bad for you.  Well what does the Bible say about that--1TI 4:3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if is is received with thanksgiving 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

We need to replace every thought that is against God's Word with His Word!! 

 

 

Blade · Feb 26, 2003

Today at 10:29 AM SnuP said this in Post #41

You have to come in contact with Jesus in order for His power to be released. Most people don't want to pause long enough to even see Jesus in their circumstance, never mind bring healing. The other thing to realize is that all sickness is a simptom of a greater problem. Deut. clearly points that out. Most people don't want the real problem dealt with they just want the simptoms dealt with. But Christ deals with all or none usually.

Hay SnuP, great name. I agree with what you posted before and now. But a question. What power do we have? Things that Jesus said get me thinking like 'behold I give you power' or when Jesus sent them out two by two and they came back and said 'even the demons are subject unto us through your name' and when Peter and John were at the gate and said to the man sitting there 'look on us, silver and gold have I none but such as I have'. Its the 'such as I have' now yes EVERY thing is by God, Jesus but what do you think? I think this is about sickness to if not sorry..

Terri · Feb 26, 2003

God made me see the importance of bringing every thought into captivity.  This is a second by second battle.  Every time you have a thought that is against what the bible says you must replace it with what the Bible says.

2CO 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

I use to have great anxiety, even panic attacks.  God showed me that this was a spirit of fear.  The Bible says God did not give us a spirit of fear.  The solution.  Learn to recognize every fearful thought you have and replace it with what God says.  This is very difficult at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.  And the reward is exceedingly great--joy like I have never known before.

I no longer have a spirit of fear.  I am constantly quoting the Bible to myself.  "Be anxious for nothing"--"Do not worry"--"Trust in the Lord with all your heart"--"God did not give us a spirit of fear".

We are in a great spiritual battle--God has given us what we need for that battle.

Terri · Feb 26, 2003

God showed me how important it is to keep your mind and your heart set on spiritual things not on earthly things.  The Bible says we have died with Christ--dead people aren't very concerned with earthly things. 

COL 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

God is very jealous--I have had to give up everything I wanted in this life for that "pearl of great value."  The price is well worth it!!!!!!

MT 13:45"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.

 

dignitized · Feb 26, 2003

Today at 12:34 PM SnuP said this in Post #42

No.  The majority of what you said is true.  Healing does come from relationship.  (see my signature)  But being able to bear sickness is not the work of Christ, because you are still in the bondage of that sickness.  Why would you think that God want sickness to come before His throne?  If Deut is true than sickness comes from a curse.  Does God want a curse in His presence?

Romans 15:1

We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Corinthians 11:30

If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:5

Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

2 Corinthians 12:9

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Corinthians 12:10

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

1 Timothy 5:23

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Hebrews 4:15

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Psalm 22:24

For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

seebs · Feb 26, 2003

I always thought sickness was caused by very very small things, which are generally called "viruses" or "bacteria". This is generally called the "germ theory of disease", and works for most things, except for hereditary illnesses and cancers.

I don't see this needing any particular justification; it's obvious, it's testable, we can get pictures of the little things multiplying. It's like asking "what causes dead mice", and looking at cats, and then demanding Scriptural support for the theory that cats kill mice, when we can *SEE* cats killing mice.

dignitized · Feb 26, 2003

seebs: lol some people just wanna blame some one for everything

Terri · Feb 26, 2003

 

2CO 12:9 is great!!  It brings me much comfort and much joy.  I am very very weak--so I am strong!!!

2CO 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.  
                                                                                        

                                                                                    

                                                                                 

  

SpiritPsalmist · Feb 27, 2003

Yesterday at 07:12 PM Terri said this in Post #53

 

2CO 12:9 is great!!  It brings me much comfort and much joy.  I am very very weak--so I am strong!!!

2CO 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.  
                                                                                        

                                                                                    

                                                                                 

  

Terri,

From what I have understood of your last few posts you are an example of exactly what I have been trying to point out.  As you've said, your mind and your heart are to be kept on Him.  Then "out of the abundance of your heart" your words will agree with what God says, and only good can come from that.  

I am blessed by what you have shared. 

Thank you.

Quaffer

Terri · Feb 27, 2003

Today at 06:56 PM Quaffer said this in Post #54

Terri,

From what I have understood of your last few posts you are an example of exactly what I have been trying to point out.  As you've said, your mind and your heart are to be kept on Him.  Then "out of the abundance of your heart" your words will agree with what God says, and only good can come from that.  

I am blessed by what you have shared. 

Thank you.

Quaffer

Thanks Quaffer!!

Glad to hear someone read it--thought I might just be talking to myself.

SnuP · Feb 27, 2003

Yesterday at 05:54 PM seebs said this in Post #51

I always thought sickness was caused by very very small things, which are generally called "viruses" or "bacteria". This is generally called the "germ theory of disease", and works for most things, except for hereditary illnesses and cancers.

I don't see this needing any particular justification; it's obvious, it's testable, we can get pictures of the little things multiplying. It's like asking "what causes dead mice", and looking at cats, and then demanding Scriptural support for the theory that cats kill mice, when we can *SEE* cats killing mice.

So do you just throw out Deut. 28 because you can examine the carrier of the curse under the microscope.  That is like people in the 16 century believing that magets came from raw meat because they could see with their eyes that magets alway developed on raw meat.

SnuP · Feb 27, 2003

Yesterday at 03:33 PM Blade said this in Post #47

Hay SnuP, great name. I agree with what you posted before and now. But a question. What power do we have? Things that Jesus said get me thinking like 'behold I give you power' or when Jesus sent them out two by two and they came back and said 'even the demons are subject unto us through your name' and when Peter and John were at the gate and said to the man sitting there 'look on us, silver and gold have I none but such as I have'. Its the 'such as I have' now yes EVERY thing is by God, Jesus but what do you think? I think this is about sickness to if not sorry..

We have the power of agreement with authority.  It is not our authority but Christ.   So we have to constantly look to Him to find out how He wants to deal with the situation.  That is why I have been talking about Him wanting to heal the cause (the mindsets) rather than the simptom (the sickness).  We have the same power that Christ had, but Christ always remained in agreement with what He saw the Father doing.  We as Christians never want to seem to remain in this type of position.  We don't remain in contact with God and we don't wait to see what He is doing.

Auntie · Feb 28, 2003

Yesterday at 11:29 PM SnuP said this in Post #56 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=680979#post680979)

So do you just throw out Deut. 28 because you can examine the carrier of the curse under the microscope.

If it is a "curse", then why do antibiotics rid the body of diseases?

Andrew · Feb 28, 2003

If it is a "curse", then why do antibiotics rid the body of diseases?

they dont. antibiotics are only used against bacteria, not viruses. even then, they only help the body fight the infection.

also the curse is not the disease. it is a state or position. medicine may help get rid of the disease, but if you are still under the curse, it will come back again.

we're also not saying that every disease is a direct curse.

Auntie · Feb 28, 2003

Today at 02:21 AM Andrew said this in Post #59 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=681181#post681181)

they dont. antibiotics are only used against bacteria, not viruses. even then, they only help the body fight the infection.

Antibiotics have saved many lives. Including the lives of lepers. There was a day when people thought leprosy was a curse, but now it can be completely cured with antibiotics. Leprosy is caused by bacteria.

also the curse is not the disease. it is a state or position. medicine may help get rid of the disease, but if you are still under the curse, it will come back again.

If a person was truely under a "curse", then no amount of medicine in the world would help that person. Medicine doe not temp cure "curses".

we're not saying that every disease is a direct curse. but the topic here is talking abt gen curses. so perhaps more like heriditary diseases like diabetes, hear failure, alchohol abuse etc. IOW, if you parents or granparents had it, must you then resign yourself to what your doc says and suffer it too?... an expect your children to suffer it too? or can you break it by the power of God's truths?

Hereditary diseases are caused by mutations in our genes. It's totally genetic. Like eye color or hair color. God is not in the "cursing business", God is in the healing business. I don't believe there is any such thing as a curse. God heals some things, and not other things. It's His choice, His decision. God has healed me of many things, and yet I have scoliosis since I was a child. Why doesn't God heal me of scoliosis? I don't know, but I don't question His decision. I trust Him with it. Disease is terrible, especially in children. Visit a Pediatric Hospital, it will break your heart. And not one of those children's diseases are caused by sins in their lives, or a curse. Disease is a part of life, even as death is a part of life. We can't escape death, and we can't escape disease. We should always pray for healing, but it is God's decision. Surrender everything to Him.

What causes sickness?

What causes sickness?

Just a part of nature.

Sin causes sickness.

A result of the fall.

Demons cause sickness.

The Law causes sickness.

Other

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