What causes sickness?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 02:46 PM SnuP said this in Post #17

So for clarities sake we do need obedience born out of love for our Father. But we don't need obedience because it is what we think is the right thing to do.

What we really need is a relationship. Sowing into the Spirit is the reality of that relationship.

I agree whole heartedly SnuP.  That is what I meant.

Thanks for clarifying that for us brother.

 

[Andrew]

I do wonder if God allows us to become sick because of sin, when we are not under the law?

Well the problem is that a lot of Christians still put themselves under law. usu its a mixture of law and grace. by this i mean self efforts to get right with God, rituals, traditions, leaning on trying to fulfill the 10 commandments, things they do or works to try to earn the blessings of God. Hence, they come under the curse of the Law.

The other thing is that although Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law, if a Christian does not even know this, then the devil has a field day with him -- my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge, says the Lord.

 

[Andrew]

Terri, I dont mean to be offensive but if you read the scriptures you posted in context, the suffering mentioned has nothing to do with sickness but persecution and abuse for being a good Christian.

I certainly agree that in the trial you are going through, God has used it for good -- ie you are leaning more on Him and depending on Him and closer to him. But I hope you dont believe God made you that way (as many ill Christians do) and that he wants you to stay that way.

So while you may still rejoice IN your suffering, I hope you are not rejoicing FOR it.

Continue to trust God and believe wholeheartedly that he wants you well totally. Your deliverance will come if you perservere in faith.

God bless

 

[Terri]

Yesterday at 11:47 PM Andrew said this in Post #23

Terri, I dont mean to be offensive but if you read the scriptures you posted in context, the suffering mentioned has nothing to do with sickness but persecution and abuse for being a good Christian.

I certainly agree that in the trial you are going through, God has used it for good -- ie you are leaning more on Him and depending on Him and closer to him. But I hope you dont believe God made you that way (as many ill Christians do) and that he wants you to stay that way.

So while you may still rejoice IN your suffering, I hope you are not rejoicing FOR it.

Continue to trust God and believe wholeheartedly that he wants you well totally. Your deliverance will come if you perservere in faith.

God bless

I am not offended Andrew.

Andrew I'm not sure I understand what you believe.  Do you think it would have been better if I had never been sick?  I don't think I would be as close to the Lord as I am now if I had never been sick. 

If suffering produces perseverance;  perseverance, character; and character, hope how would any one ever get these if they were not subject to persecution and abuse for being a Christian.  Would that mean that there is not hope for others to develop these traits?

How do you believe one develops these traits without suffering as you say by persecution and abuse for being a Christian.

Andrew I have faith that God could heal me at any point in time.  I have faith that the traits that the Lord is teaching me by my suffering far outweigh the joys of being totally healthy.  This body I am in is only temporary--the character and hope that will be produced by the suffering will be eternal.

Of course I had rather not be sick.  But, unless you can tell me how my faith is refined without trails, I had rather be sick in this life and continue to have my faith refined so that it may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


I hope I am wrong, but it seems you are saying that your faith will only be true faith as long as your life is without trials--you seem to be saying that trails, the suffering they produce and the positive traits that result are due to a lack of faith.  I see the opposite--I feel that trials are a very positive thing and without them your faith will remain weak because it has never been refined in the fire.

I love you in the Lord Andrew! 

 

[SnuP]

It is interesting to me how many people will use the situation of one man to establish doctrine for the intire church.

So what if this one mans sickness had nothing to do with sin, what does that have to do with anything.

The man was sick simply because he was under the law. Jesus is right there is not perticular sin that you can point your finger at. The very fact that he was a man living under the law and unable to keep all of the law, just like anyone else who lives under the law, made him sick.

Remember the law of sowing and reaping which governs the whole univers. It is a law of physics. For every action there is an equal and oposite reaction. So if a man gets sick there is a cause. And the cause is not just happenstance.

 

[SnuP]

Terri, without trying to judge your situation, one possibility, I think that maybe you got sick because you weren't as close to the Lord as you should be. One problem that I see in your thinking is that you believe that the only good way to grow is through trials and suffering. Andrew is right when he says that the scriptual suffering is not sickness rather it is rejection by men because of Christ. God can produce godly traits in you without suffering and draw you closer to Him without forcing you to depend on Him. The truth is that you did not get sick so that you would be forced to depend on Him more. That is not love. You probably got sick because you were not depending on Him already, which is accually living under the law.

 

[sklippstein]

Terri I agree with u. Good post

 

[Terri]

Everyone is free to think I am a horrible Christian or else I wouldn't be sick.  I knew this was a possibility when I posted my story.

I do not hold it against you. 

God knows my heart.  I will leave it up to him to judge me--I don't even judge myself.

 

[Terri]

Today at 12:46 PM sklippstein said this in Post #27

Terri I agree with u. Good post

Thank you sklippstein. 

You make me feel not so alone!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 01:47 PM Terri said this in Post #28

Everyone is free to think I am a horrible Christian or else I wouldn't be sick.  I knew this was a possibility when I posted my story.

I do not hold it against you. 

God knows my heart.  I will leave it up to him to judge me--I don't even judge myself.

Terri,

My sister, I don't believe SnuP said you are a horrible Christian.

by SnuP

Terri, without trying to judge your situation, one possibility, I think that maybe you got sick because you weren't as close to the Lord as you should be. One problem that I see in your thinking is that you believe that the only good way to grow is through trials and suffering. Andrew is right when he says that the scriptual suffering is not sickness rather it is rejection by men because of Christ. God can produce godly traits in you without suffering and draw you closer to Him without forcing you to depend on Him. The truth is that you did not get sick so that you would be forced to depend on Him more. That is not love. You probably got sick because you were not depending on Him already, which is accually living under the law.

Terri, this thought could be applied to all of us.  I don't know that any of us are continuously as close to the Lord as we should be.  I believe there are times that we are but then we tend to become distracted again and wander just a little bit off.  

It's during those times of being just a little bit off that our enemy can get his foot in the door and the attack is on.  We can recognize it as an attack and take steps, outlined for us in scripture to ward off the effects of the attack.  Or, we can just say, Oh well, I'm just sick, God is teaching me a lesson.

Yes, God will teach us things during times of sickness but it is not His will that we be sick in order to learn them.  Would'nt you much rather that your child learn how to not put his hand in a fire without him having to get his hand burned? 

God feels the same way.  But if we are going to touch it anyway, He will definately teach us something from the process of our hand being burned becasue we did it. 

Quaffer

 

[Terri]

Quaffer, I wasn't singling anyone out in my comment.

I know some people think you don't have enough faith or you wouldn't be sick.  They have a right to believe it.  I don't believe it. 

I bet Job wouldn't agree with them either.

 

 

[Andrew]

Terri,

You obviously misunderstd me.
1. My point is that if you read the scriptures you posted on Chrisitan suffering in its entire context/chap, you'll will discover that it has nothing to do with sickness, but persecution for being good Christians. The early church were persecuted, ridiculed, beaten, thrown in jail, scorned at by ungodly people etc. That's the suffering they went through which brings forth perserverance, strength, etc. Yes, good Christians can expected to suffer this way. In fact, Paul says something is wrong if you never get persecuted for your faith.

2. Faith for healing has nothing to do with your faithfulness. Just becos you are sick does not mean you are not a good Christian. Some Christians have faith for evangelising some have faith for fund raising for kingdom work but it doesnt mean one is better than the other. Likewise faith for healing. Can anyone of us say that our faith for healing has been perfected? Of cse not! Quaffer and I, for eg, still fall sick (though rarely by the grace of God), so we are still developing our faith in this area, as with all other areas of our Christian walk. So, I believe you are growing in faith in this area too.

so pls stop accusing us of saying things that we never said, like you are a horrible Christian with no faith, etc.

I have written a short article on the sufferings of a Christian (just what is the Christian expected to suffer. Is sickness one of them?) using Paul's example and Peter's teaching on suffering, and how God delivers us out of ALL trials. If u are interested, please pm me and I'll give you the website:

 

[Terri]

Andrew if I ever accuse you of anything I will use your name!!

 

[SnuP]

operating under the law is one of the easiest things to do since we all have been doing it since we were born. It is only natural for us to alway think in terms of right and wrong. I should didn't do this or I should do that. Even how good a christian we are is only determined by a legalistic way of thinking. IE a christian should have a good relationship and strong faith and shouldn't sin too much. But God doesn't waist it time judging our position. He knows what we have gone through and what it will take to make us free. Having you free is what is important to God, not how strong you are of a christian. Your ability to trust Christ is accually determined by how free you are rather than how good a christian you are. It is unrealistic to compare ones persons freedom to anothers since no one has the same experiences and stuggles.

If law is the reason for sickness than faith may have very little to do with your healing. Your freedom is more important to God than your miracle. If your sickness is caused by a lack of freedom, than freedom is what you need for the healing to manifest rather than faith.

 

[Terri]

SnuP I feel free.  I feel great joy because of my freedom.  I trust God for everything.  I know I am not under any law.   

But, what is your definition of free?  Perhaps I am missing something. 

Please take it point by point--not too much at once--so it can sink in.

 

[dignitized]

plain and simple - Existances with a fallen nature causes sickness both in ourselves and in others.

 

[dignitized]

WHY are people stressing over what causes sickness? Lets focus on what supercedes sickness - a relationship with Jesus Christ. Christ makes sickness bearable or curable. Christ makes suffering tolerable and poverty loose its curse. Lets get our eyes OFF the carnality and carnal issues such as wealth and health and onto Christ and the internal eternal relationship with him. Proof of a walk with God is not a lack of sickness, but in how you deal with sickness. DO you allow sickness to destroy you, or do you overcome it to grow closer to Christ?

 

[SnuP]

Christ does not make sickness bearable.

show me a scripture were Christ did that. Christ delivers and heals from sickness.

 

[chelcb]

Today at 11:19 AM SnuP said this in Post #38

Christ does not make sickness bearable.

show me a scripture were Christ did that. Christ delivers and heals from sickness.

But what if he don't, what are we as Christians to think then?

 

[dignitized]

you are so caught up in incidents of life that you are missing the substance.