What caused the Universe?

[Speedwell]

I'm not ignoring it. I'm directly addressing it.
I'm saying that that clearly isn't necessarily correct.

We have PLENTY of precedents where the "theological answer" was pushed aside, literally, when the "scientific answer" was discovered.

In fact, I know of no instance where it was ever otherwise.

In most of the instances we discuss in this forum it is the "biblical" answer, not the "theological" answer which is pushed aside.

 

[quatona]

first I have to teach you how to think

ROTFL

 

[Kenny'sID]

So have at it. This is the thread many people seem to want. If you know what caused the universe, tell us what caused it, and how you know you are right.

If it hasn't already been brought up, you hardly explained how you know you are right, could you now do what you ask of us?

 

[victorinus]

What "one"?
And what makes that guess "reasonable"?
Are there any other "reasonable" guesses? Why or why not?

-the uncaused cause
-you have to have an uncaused cause
-don't think there are any other reasonable guesses because I can't think of any

 

[victorinus]

Sure. Now you just have to explain why the universe must be an effect...

something had to cause it
-it had a beginning
-and-
something had to start it

 

[quatona]

If it hasn't already been brought up, you hardly explained how you know you are right, could you now do what you ask of us?

In the OP doubtingmerle said "I don´t know".

 

[quatona]

something had to cause it
-it had a beginning
-and-
something had to start it

How did you establish that the universe can´t have existed forever in one form or another?

 

[Kenny'sID]

In the OP doubtingmerle said "I don´t know".

Actually, he said:

My answer? Obviously there was a Big Bang, but before that, I don't know.

And my question was to explain how he knew he was right, but maybe I should clarify..."right" as in how he is right about the big bang, and I should probably add, what exactly this big bang was? Since it is so obvious to him, the question should be an easy one.

 

[quatona]

And my question was to explain how he knew he was right, but maybe I should clarify..."right" as in how he is right about the big bang, and I should probably add, what exactly this big bang was? Since it is so obvious to him, the question should be an easy one.

Ah, I see. Wasn´t aware how far you go when science flies in the face of a literal reading of the bible.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Ah, I see. Wasn´t aware how far you go when science flies in the face of a literal reading of the bible.

?

I think you may be over complicating something very simple.

 

[quatona]

?

I think you may be over complicating something very simple.

No, you had already convinced me of its simplicity.

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, you had already convinced me of its simplicity.

I should not have had to in my view, but nevertheless...good deal.

 

[quatona]

I should not have had to in my view

You didn´t have to.
However, you did explain your question, and I said "I see".

 

[rockytopva]

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

All things came together with energy and light. Whether atheist want to admit this or not... Our life is mainly Spiritual E/c2. We all get out of bed with some kind of faith, hope, and care. And that Spiritual E/c2 is what motivates us to be well to do throughout the day. And when that light is taken away there is a darkness and an emptiness that can reside in its place.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. - Isaiah 65:17

Soon the mass will disassociate into the plasma and energy from whence it was created and reassociate into a new heaven and a new earth... As the Father wills it.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. - 2 Peter 3

Where will your soul lie after the great disassociation? In contrast to eternity our life is very short!

 

[victorinus]

How did you establish that the universe can´t have existed forever in one form or another?

entropy

 

[doubtingmerle]

And my question was to explain how he knew he was right, but maybe I should clarify..."right" as in how he is right about the big bang, and I should probably add, what exactly this big bang was? Since it is so obvious to him, the question should be an easy one.

We believe there was the Big Bang that started this universe, because that is what the evidence shows. All around us galaxies are spreading out from each other. Trace them all back in time, and you find they were all at one spot some 13 billion years ago.

Also evidence such as the background radiation in space strongly correlates with a Big Bang.

But if you don't think the universe came into existence with a Big Bang billions of years ago, how do you think it came into existence?

 

[doubtingmerle]

it can be
-if-
you can ignore reason

Ah, you will just evade the question? Let's try it again:

And why cannot the uncaused cause [of the universe] be a non-personal ultimate reality that always existed?​

Saying that you have a reason that I am ignoring is not an answer. I can hardly be accused of ignoring your reason if you have not yet stated your reason.

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

Maybe the mass has dis-associated into plasma and vice versa many times? 13 billion years in nothing compared to eternity! The very mass of our body may have been millions of times something else!

 

[rockytopva]

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

Behold! God the Father! Made of sheer energy and light! With his great energy and light he associates in mass, and then disassociates to plasma at his will! The whole creation was once God the Father and is on loan from him! He will hold us accountable for the things we have done with the E/c2 we have on loan from him!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Trace them all back in time, and you find they were all at one spot some 13 billion years ago.

How do you trace them back in time? Or better yet, let me just get past my stalling and be blunt, anything else would be a waste of time. It sounds to me you have little to no reason to believe what you do, so I'll take it you just have faith that is what happened. If not, and considering your answer, I think it's a fair question to ask if you can do a little better than that? Maybe start with the "time" question and how it was traced, or wherever you like.

I think God did it all, why? if for no other reason, it just makes a lot more sense to me that something was created, as opposed to just happened by itself, because I've seen things created but never saw something happen by itself. But lets dwell on your ideas for the moment.