What caused the Universe?

[victorinus]

And why cannot the uncaused cause [of the universe] be a non-personal ultimate reality that always existed?​

you would not be able to explain our sense of purpose and morality

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

-the uncaused cause

What is that and how do you know?

-you have to have an uncaused cause

Why?

-don't think there are any other reasonable guesses because I can't think of any

Maybe you lack imagination.

 

[victorinus]

What is that and how do you know?

Why?

Maybe you lack imagination.

uncaused cause is clearly defined, what part of that don't you understand?
-
can you suggest another reasonable explanation?

 

[Speedwell]

How do you trace them back in time? Or better yet, let me just get past my stalling and be blunt, anything else would be a waste of time. It sounds to me you have little to no reason to believe what you do, so I'll take it you just have faith that is what happened. If not, and considering your answer, I think it's a fair question to ask if you can do a little better than that? Maybe start with the "time" question and how it was traced, or wherever you like.

I think God did it all, why? if for no other reason, it just makes a lot more sense to me that something was created, as opposed to just happened by itself, because I've seen things created but never saw something happen by itself. But lets dwell on your ideas for the moment.

The question is not whether God did it or it happened by itself, but what happened?

How do you trace the galaxies back in time? You see that they are moving in certain directions and when you project those directions back in time, you see that they all seem to have started at the same place.

 

[doubtingmerle]

How do you trace them back in time? Or better yet, let me just get past my stalling and be blunt, anything else would be a waste of time. It sounds to me you have little to no reason to believe what you do, so I'll take it you just have faith that is what happened. If not, and considering your answer, I think it's a fair question to ask if you can do a little better than that? Maybe start with the "time" question and how it was traced, or wherever you like.

I think God did it all, why? if for no other reason, it just makes a lot more sense to me that something was created, as opposed to just happened by itself, because I've seen things created but never saw something happen by itself. But lets dwell on your ideas for the moment.

As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.

You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas. It just happens by itself. Where do you think toots come from? That God comes down from heaven and creates toots ex nihlo?

Diamonds, oil, and coal just happen when the condition is right. It requires no God to create the diamonds down there.

 

[AV1611VET]

The question is not whether God did it or it happened by itself, but what happened?

God spoke and matter & energy came out of nowhere.

How do you trace the galaxies back in time?

How do you trace anything back in time?

You see that they are moving in certain directions and when you project those directions back in time, you see that they all seem to have started at the same place.

But if you project those galaxies back beyond 4004 BC, you'll be making a big mistake.

 

[AV1611VET]

As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.

Not if they were "wagon-wheeled" outward; as opposed to "pinwheeled" outward.

 

[Speedwell]

God spoke and matter & energy came out of nowhere.

That's a good answer, but creation ex materia is also possible and was very popular at one time (some Christians subscribe to it even now) but early Christian theologians discouraged it because they saw it as a "slippery slope" leading to Gnostic dualism.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a good answer, but creation ex materia is also possible and was very popular at one time (some Christians subscribe to it even now) but early Christian theologians discouraged it because they saw it as a "slippery slope" leading to Gnostic dualism.

I don't think one has to be a Rhodes scholar to be able to go down through the verses in Genesis 1 and point out what was created ex nihilo and what was created ex material.

If it leads to Gnostic dualism, I would venture to say the person being led isn't grounded in the Truth very well.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas.

You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas. It just happens by itself. Where do you think toots come from? That God comes down from heaven and creates toots ex nihlo?

Diamonds, oil, and coal just happen when the condition is right. It requires no God to create the diamonds down there.

But those things didn't happen by themselves, something happened to make them happen...you ate beans, making the process possible from something that exists already...same with the diamonds oil and coal.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't think one has to be a Rhodes scholar to be able to go down through the verses in Genesis 1 and point out what was created ex nihilo and what was created ex material.

If it leads to Gnostic dualism, I would venture to say the person being led isn't grounded in the Truth very well.

I'm just telling you the history. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference. Why is creation ex nihilo important to you?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm just telling you the history. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference. Why is creation ex nihilo important to you?

Because people are always asking me for evidence of creatio ex nihilo, and I tell them that ... by its very nature ... creatio ex nihilo would not generate any.

 

[Radrook]

As Speedwell explained, galaxies are moving away from each other. The speed is proportional to the distance from each other, so that puts them all in the same place billions of years ago.

You never saw something happen by itself? Eat a big plate of baked beans. My guess is that the laws of nature will work on those beans in your stomach and create gas. It just happens by itself. Where do you think toots come from? That God comes down from heaven and creates toots ex nihlo?

Diamonds, oil, and coal just happen when the condition is right. It requires no God to create the diamonds down there.

Has someone actually claimed that God' is personally involved mentally in shaping each and every diamond? Never heard that before.
I always understood that he set the process for things to work automatically in motion.

 

[Speedwell]

Because people are always asking me for evidence of creatio ex nihilo, and I tell them that ... by its very nature ... creatio ex nihilo would not generate any.

I don't know why that would be an issue. Nobody has any evidence about what happened "before."

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't know why that would be an issue.

With who? me?

It's not an issue with me.

In fact, I have a whole slew of challenges that scientists are too cowardly (or too smart) to take on, without changing the wording.

 

[Speedwell]

Has someone actually claimed that God' is personally involved mentally in shaping each and every diamond? Never heard that before.
I always understood that he set the process for things to work automatically in motion.

I thought you were an ID guy. What you just posted is pretty much mainstream theistic evolutionism.

 

[Speedwell]

With who? me?

It's not an issue with me.

In fact, I have a whole slew of challenges that scientists are too cowardly (or too smart) to take on, without changing the wording.

I mean, why would an atheist who has no evidence of what happened before the beginning of our universe be asking you to provide some?

 

[AV1611VET]

I mean, why would an atheist who has no evidence of what happened before the beginning of our universe be asking you to provide some?

An excellent question, with which I cannot get a straight answer.

If there was evidence of the creation of the earth, then God would have had to have generated it separately.

And that, to me, would be messy.

I can place a glass on a table and fill it with water.

I don't need to overfill it and have water spill out all over, just to leave evidence behind that I got me a glass of water.

 

[Radrook]

I thought you were an ID guy. What you just posted is pretty much mainstream theistic evolutionism.

Well, I don't believe that he set Darwinian Evolution in motion.
Also, even if I would make that claim it would still postulate an ID.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

uncaused cause is clearly defined, what part of that don't you understand?
-
can you suggest another reasonable explanation?

To suggest another explanation, you imply that there is already an explanation.
I haven't seen any.

All I've seen you do is make assertions and declarations, and a clear refusal to answer questions about those assertions and declarations.


PS: the "cosmological argument" is a cesspool of logical fallacies.