What Are Your Top 5 Scientific Proofs That Creationists Cannot Dispute?

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ReverendDG

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Ya --- I learned you conveniently left out the last part of that verse.

[bible]Job 38:35[/bible]

I don't need a lecture on lightning, I need you to explain the latter part of that verse.

And "the language of the times", while you're at it.

You want to lecture me --- lecture me --- but please don't cherry pick.

(You too, MrGoodBytes.)
Obviously you do, if you think job is talking about the internet..and the bible for that matter if you are cherry picking a line about how powerful god is to claim its about the internet
the lengths you will go to claim your magic book is right on everything AV, its more sad than anything and funny, very very funny

well its a toss-up really:D


 
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nvxplorer

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The real bone of contention is not that allele frequencies change over time, but that humans are evolved apes.
What's an evolved ape? What's an unevolved ape, for that matter?
How has that concept helped your research, especially in light of the fact that chimps react quite differently to common diseases?
Humans react quite differently to disease as well. Is there a point in there somewhere?
 
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FishFace

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Oh, that's grand. You claim that a verse about God sending lightning is a prophecy about the internet (because lightning = electrons in a wire, as we all know), and then accuse us of cherry picking. .

Sometimes I wonder whether AV is just an unbelievably crafty Poe. It is just ridiculous that someone could sincerely believe such things, that I find it... well, unbelievable.

Of course, if it is honest, I give up my hope for humanity.
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course, if it is honest, I give up my hope for humanity.
Good! Now we're getting somewhere!

Put your hope where it belongs:

[bible]Psalm 38:15[/bible]
 
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David_M

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Then why was he given a scientific nomenclature?

Because the person who claims to have found the new species gets to name it, of course it still needs to be accepted by the community as a new species.

I would have expected that you might have picked up that piece of common knowledge some time in the last decade.

No scientific papers seems to have been published about the find, only articles.
 
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AV1611VET

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No scientific papers seems to have been published about the find, only articles.
What was it? five years?

Five years later, it was exposed as a fraud?

Are you telling me that in five years, not one scientific paper was written on it?

Who hired the artist to draw it?

Was it taught in Science class as true?
 
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pitabread

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500x1000px-LL-a732d361_NecroThread.jpeg
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Seriously?? How "in character" of you to raise a long dead thread.
Who hired the artist to draw it?
From the Wikipage at Nebraska Man - Wikipedia (first page of a google search, mind you):

"An illustration of H. haroldcookii was done by artist Amédée Forestier, who modeled the drawing on the proportions of "Pithecanthropus" (now Homo erectus), the "Java ape-man," for the Illustrated London News. Osborn was not impressed with the illustration, calling it: "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate".[2]"​
Was it taught in Science class as true?
Nope. Also from the Wiki article at Nebraska Man - Wikipedia (first page of that google search I mentioned earlier):

"Retraction
Restoration of what Prosthennops may have looked like in life
From its initial description, Hesperopithecus was regarded as an inconclusive find by a large portion of the scientific community. Examinations of the specimen continued, and the original describers continued to draw comparisons between Hesperopithecus and apes. Further field work on the site in the summers of 1925 and 1926 uncovered other parts of the skeleton. These discoveries revealed that the tooth was incorrectly identified. According to these discovered pieces, the tooth belonged neither to a man nor an ape, but to a fossil of an extinct species of peccary called Prosthennops serus. The misidentification was attributed to the fact that the original specimen was severely weathered. The earlier identification as an ape was retracted in the journal Science in 1927.[3]"​

So, it never made it past peer review. let alone into high school text books...
 
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AV1611VET

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So, it never made it past peer review. let alone into high school text books...
Fair enough.

I'll print a retraction ... right here on page six.
 
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AV1611VET

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The original retraction retraction made it to the front page of the New York Times, it was also announced in both Nature and Science.
Who made the retraction? Harold Cook or scientists?
 
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Bugeyedcreepy

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Seriously?? How "in character" of you to raise a long dead thread.

From the Wikipage at Nebraska Man - Wikipedia (first page of a google search, mind you):

"An illustration of H. haroldcookii was done by artist Amédée Forestier, who modeled the drawing on the proportions of "Pithecanthropus" (now Homo erectus), the "Java ape-man," for the Illustrated London News. Osborn was not impressed with the illustration, calling it: "a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate".[2]"​

Nope. Also from the Wiki article at Nebraska Man - Wikipedia (first page of that google search I mentioned earlier):

"Retraction
Restoration of what Prosthennops may have looked like in life
From its initial description, Hesperopithecus was regarded as an inconclusive find by a large portion of the scientific community. Examinations of the specimen continued, and the original describers continued to draw comparisons between Hesperopithecus and apes. Further field work on the site in the summers of 1925 and 1926 uncovered other parts of the skeleton. These discoveries revealed that the tooth was incorrectly identified. According to these discovered pieces, the tooth belonged neither to a man nor an ape, but to a fossil of an extinct species of peccary called Prosthennops serus. The misidentification was attributed to the fact that the original specimen was severely weathered. The earlier identification as an ape was retracted in the journal Science in 1927.[3]"​

So, it never made it past peer review. let alone into high school text books...
Who made the retraction? Harold Cook or scientists?
<sigh>..... -_- ALSO from the Wiki page (or clickie the [3] link in my original reply), you'll see the following:

"3. Gregory, W.K. (1927). "Hesperopithecus apparently not an ape nor a man". Science. 66 (1720): 579–81. doi:10.1126/science.66.1720.579. PMID 17810385."​
 
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David_M

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Who made the retraction? Harold Cook or scientists?

That would be William King Gregory, a colleague of Henry Fairfield Osborn (the scientist to who Cook sent the tooth). Gregory's position in 1922/1923 was that the find was not of a human ancestor but a related anthropoid ape closer to Chimpanzees or Gorillas.
 
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AV1611VET

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That would be William King Gregory, a colleague of Henry Fairfield Osborn (the scientist to who Cook sent the tooth). Gregory's position in 1922/1923 was that the find was not of a human ancestor but a related anthropoid ape closer to Chimpanzees or Gorillas.
See, this is what bugs me.

Why was a RETRACTION needed for something that was mislabeled and didn't pass peer review and was given a scientific name?

Aren't they supposed to do this stuff before they disseminate it to the general public?

So Cook sends a tooth to Osborn, who sends it to Gregory ... and by that time, Nebraska Man is up and running, with drawings and whatnot?
 
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David_M

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See, this is what bugs me.

Why was a RETRACTION needed for something that was mislabeled and didn't pass peer review and was given a scientific name?

Aren't they supposed to do this stuff before they disseminate it to the general public?

So Cook sends a tooth to Osborn, who sends it to Gregory ... and by that time, Nebraska Man is up and running, with drawings and whatnot?

See, this is what bugs me. Why do you ignore information that runs counter to your narrative?

Why was a retraction needed? Because science strives for honesty and tries to correct its mistakes. Very different to creationist literature.

Here are Osborn's words from 1922.
"I have not stated that Hesperopithecus was either an Ape-man or in the direct line of human ancestry, because I consider it quite possible that we may discover anthropoid apes (Simiidae) with teeth closely imitating those of man (Hominidae), ..."

"Until we secure more of the dentition, or parts of the skull or of the skeleton, we cannot be certain whether Hesperopithecus is a member of the Simiidae or of the Hominidae."

Not quite the absolute declaration of a human ancestor that creationists like to claim.

Cook was a geologist, Gregory specialised in primate fossils and worked for Osborn. What is so strange about people who are the most qualified being assigned work.

As you have no doubt been informed so many times, the drawing was not authorised by Osborn and he stated "such a drawing or 'reconstruction' would doubtless be only a figment of the imagination of no scientific value, and undoubtedly inaccurate.".
It appeared in a single popular news magazine, who were the ones who commissioned the artist, and was not reproduced elsewhere until certain dishonest creationists dug it up some decades ago.

Nebraska Man was never "up and running", this is another lie by creationist shills that is just repeated ad nauseum. The classification was questioned from the start and even its proponents stated that the claim that it came from an ape-man human ancestor could not be supported.

The truth of the matter is that there was no hoax and no fraud, instead it came down to Journalists getting it wrong about science. The scientists said from the start that more evidence would be needed to confirm whether the tooth did indeed come from an anthropoid primate.
 
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