What are your thoughts on this?

[Whyayeman]

But you are right, repenting from being gay is easily shown in scripture.

I have quoted from my copy of the James I Bible here on CF many times. Now, specifically, show where in scripture is there a reference to somebody - in your words - "repenting from being gay".

 

[Divide]

I have quoted from my copy of the James I Bible here on CF many times. Now, specifically, show where in scripture is there a reference to somebody - in your words - "repenting from being gay".

Are you kidding me? It says throughout the Bible that all of us should repent from all sin. How many times does it say it? A lot. Being gay is a sin so should be repented from.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.,,,/KJV

Acts 3:19
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;.../KJV

Acts 17:30
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:.../KJV

2 Chronicals 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land..../KJV

Is that enough scriptures for you about repenting from sin? There's a lot more too...

 

[Bradskii]

What I said is in scripture!

Your personal revulsion is in scripture?

 

[Whyayeman]

Are you kidding me? It says throughout the Bible that all of us should repent from all sin. How many times does it say it? A lot. Being gay is a sin so should be repented from.

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.,,,/KJV

Acts 3:19
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;.../KJV

Acts 17:30
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:.../KJV

2 Chronicals 7:14
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land..../KJV

Is that enough scriptures for you about repenting from sin? There's a lot more too...

Please look again at my post #801. The phrase you used does not appear in scripture. You are just using catch-all general purpose quotes.

OK. I shall leave it at that.

 

[childeye 2]

Man I quoted you. You said what you said. Now if you weren't clear enough for me then that's something else. On forums like this we all say things and then later have to clarify what we meant. After all you know what you meant. I don't. I just have to go by what you said. And you said people were using pride parades to create outrage using propaganda. I even believe you used the word lying.

It's no big deal, but I could tell that you misunderstood me when you said this, "Okay, to call it a ploy and propaganda is exactly using the language you claim shouldn't be used. You might want to check your own eye first".

I didn't mean we shouldn't call it a ploy or propaganda if in fact it is. There's nothing wrong with stating the truth. That's precisely why I stipulated that, as an "example", conflating hedonists at a gay pride parade with protecting transgenders or teens that are gay at schools would qualify as propaganda.

Read it again:
The reason is because when we write "LGBTQ+..." it's usually an over generalization for different topics, as we end up applying sets of people to an issue that actually only involves a subset. This is a typical ploy used by political propagandists who would use say for example, the spectacle of hedonism at Gay pride parades, to create an outrage they can then direct at those who are not even involved in gay pride parades, but are trying to protect the rights of children who are transgender or teens that are gay.

 

[rjs330]

looks to me like the hedonists are using gay pride parades to provoke people which creates outrage. But what I conveyed is it's wrong to equate transgenders or all people who are gay with the hedonists at a gay pride parade through an over generalization.

Proof from the record:

While I agree with you in that it's wrong to equate ALL gay or transgenders with the parades, I don't think anyone is doing that. And there is no propaganda or TRYING to create an outrage. As you say later just showing the truth creates the outrage because people are shocked at what is REALLY going on. The truth sometimes is shocking.

I don't believe it's an overgeneralization. Not at all. When you read the stories of those involved or those that have been involved in the LGBT life the pride parades are indicative of what happens. I just listened to a gay person (who is still gay by the way) and he talked about the gay culture and how hedonistic it is. About the wild get together s, hook ups and drugs and alcohol. He was also for a while a grag queen and was involved in that wild sexual, drunken drug filled culture as well. He thought he was trans and under went transitioning and was trans for a couple of years before finally accepting the fact he was gay. It's actually a horribly sad story he tells.

He's not the only one who says it.

Then we have the entire transgenderism movement, watching mothers on video celebrating their 5 year old boy at a pride parade coming out as trans. With everyone standing around cheering. We have queens encouraging children to twerk and find experiment, explore their own queerness.

We have schools, TV shows, movies books at all aimed at kids to get them to ally with LGBT. No my friend this is NOT propaganda or trying to create outrage with propaganda and over generalization. This IS what is going on.

And no it is NOT every single gay person. But it IS a very powerful and influential group and the majority of gays are or have been a part of that culture. Very few have come out to condemn it.

TransgenderISM is not the same thing as being trans. Most trans people are suffering psychological disorders. They deserve out empathy for what they are going through.

Transgenderism is a totally different animal.

 

[rjs330]

But objectively, it isn't. Transgenders are not hedonists and hedonism is not even restricted to homosexuality. I don't even see hedonists represented there. So, when we compare a gay pride parade which contains acts of debauchery with a gay pride assembly at a school meant to support equal and fair treatment, those are two different things.

As you say, hedonism is not restricted to homosexuality. There are hedonists that are of all stripes including transgender people. Inxluding people that are NOT part of the LGBT group. But they are not part of the parades either. There most certainly are heterosexuals that are hedonistic. But they aren't the ones marching in the street celebrating their hedonistic ways and putting it on display for all to see. That's kind of the thing here. Not only do LGBT groups act hedonistic they also want to throw it in everyone's face as well. They WANT it on display in front of crowds. That's even more hedonistic.

Trans people should be separating themselves from the parades if they aren't hedonistic. They have a choice, so they choose to be part of the LGBT parade. They could take a strong stance against it, but they don't. They still march and cheer, and wear it cary their flags in support.

 

[rjs330]

is satire because it's a mockery of the authoritarianism of punishing gays for being their selves. Even stating your belief that it isn't a satire, is the actual irony of the satire. For example, if you fear they will convert your child from being hateful, you actually accepted a false premise, unless of course you're actually teaching your children to be hateful.

No it wasn't satire. They are are CLAIMING we are teachers ng out children to be hateful. They are making false claims. Why? Because they can't handle anyone disagreeing with them. Anyone who disagrees with what they are doing is a hater. And you fell for it.

Every gay person I know finds gay pride parades disgusting. You know how sensationalism and propaganda works. You and I are here actively amplifying the few and promoting the spectacle.

And how many gay people do you know? It seems it is the FEW that find it disgusting. 77% of gays find them important and support them.

 

[Whyayeman]

No it wasn't satire.

Oh yes it was! And people with your attitude to the issues of LGBT+ are the target. That is a common problem with satire, especially when it is not very well done; the target has no sense of it and takes it at face value.

It seems to me that all the animosity that has been built up over these issues comes from the religiosity of a mainly American fundamentalist sectarian minority. Most people see it as simply a matter of equality for all, regardless of gender.

 

[Bradskii]

Oh yes it was! And people with your attitude to the issues of LGBT+ are the target. That is a common problem with satire, especially when it is not very well done; the target has no sense of it and takes it at face value.

It seems to me that all the animosity that has been built up over these issues comes from the religiosity of a mainly American fundamentalist sectarian minority. Most people see it as simply a matter of equality for all, regardless of gender.

It's been said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. And I tend to agree. Despite my natural tendency to it. But satire is a different ball game.

Sarcasm is the baseball bat to the head. Whereas satire is...well, quite often, unless you are tuned in to the discussion, is missed. It's like the thin blade slid in and you don't even know you're bleeding.

That's one thing I've noticed in this forum. A little subtle satire is missed completely. Often acknowledged as being the complete opposite of what was stated. The number of times I have made a satirical comment to someone and received a thumbs up from the person to whom it was addressed is baffling.

And the song in the op? It's about as far from being subtle as one could be. It is plainly obvious. Almost a little clumsy in my opinion. But still people don't get it.

 

[Divide]

Please look again at my post #801. The phrase you used does not appear in scripture. You are just using catch-all general purpose quotes.

OK. I shall leave it at that.

They are biblical principles. Not general purpose quotes.

 

[Divide]

Your personal revulsion is in scripture?

Sure it is. But you know what they say?

One man's revulsion is another man's obsession.

It's a revulsion of sin is what it is. Do you think I had a preexisting thing about gays? That is not so. Rather the gays stirred it up speciffically by invading our forum in force with the attitude of oh Christian boy you better love us gays or you da bad guy...! What do you expect?!

I have revulsion for other types of sin also. Would you rather talk about alcoholics? How about hard core druggies? Liars? It's all the same. Quit trying to be special and have a victim card to play, lol.

 

[Whyayeman]

Rather the gays stirred it up speciffically by invading our forum

The gays? First: I think you are making unwarranted assumptions here. I have never indicated anything about my sexuality here, and I am not going to. Second: your lumping together of various groups as 'the gays' reveals what may be your true attitude - of contempt and hatred. What is in your scriptures to support that?

Quit trying to be special and have a victim card to play

If anybody is 'playing the victim card' it is you.

'Invading'? 'Our forum'? Poor you, having to put up with us atheists and other forms of devillry! I suppose you would rather not hear somebody else's point of view.

As for 'other types of 'sin' - well start a thread on some of them. I might support your viewpoint. Who knows?

 

[Divide]

The gays? First: I think you are making unwarranted assumptions here. I have never indicated anything about my sexuality here, and I am not going to. Second: your lumping together of various groups as 'the gays' reveals what may be your true attitude - of contempt and hatred. What is in your scriptures to support that?

If anybody is 'playing the victim card' it is you.

'Invading'? 'Our forum'? Poor you, having to put up with us atheists and other forms of devillry! I suppose you would rather not hear somebody else's point of view.

As for 'other types of 'sin' - well start a thread on some of them. I might support your viewpoint. Who knows?

So what? Gays probably shouldn't go to Christian websites when they are not seeking the Lord because most of them are merely tryng to sway Christians belief system. So what do you expect?

You want me to be gay sympathetic and at the same time you want to totally ignore the holiness standards that my God holds to. That can be taken as surrepticious at it's core.

Why are you defending that you are not gay? You have displayed yourself to be a very sympathetic supporters of gays in the least, and so that alone identifies you as a gay to me. If you don't like that then don't talk to me, lol.

 

[Whyayeman]

So what? Gays probably shouldn't go to Christian websites when they are not seeking the Lord because most of them are merely tryng to sway Christians belief system. So what do you expect?

You want me to be gay sympathetic and at the same time you want to totally ignore the holiness standards that my God holds to. That can be taken as surrepticious at it's core.

Why are you defending that you are not gay? You have displayed yourself to be a very sympathetic supporters of gays in the least, and so that alone identifies you as a gay to me. If you don't like that then don't talk to me, lol.

I am not defending anything. That is purely in your mind.

'that alone identifies you as a gay to me' Well, I never!

I am very sympathic to paraplegics. Does that identify me as disabled in your eyes? Perhaps you should think it through.

 

[rjs330]

compassion means seeing people suffering and wanting to alleviate that suffering and it makes no difference if they're gay or drag queens or whatever. That's just what it is and what it does. Compassion is an objective morality.

I believe the devil uses subjective connotations because the positive/negatives reverse in subjective opposing perspectives. As both an accuser and tempter he can play both sides against one another in a mutual cynicism. So yes, I would think Jesus would have something to say about trying to convert children into sinfulness, but that must also include slandering those who are not doing that by saying that they are. That's why we need to avoid lumping all gays in there with hedonists, and also avoid falsely equating transgender children with hedonism.

Oh I whole heartedly agree with the compassion. My kids and I have been visiting Portland OR. We've seen things we don't normally see. Quite frankly it's heartbreaking. It's so sad to see people trapped in mental illness like that. Or feel so terrible about life that they feel they must be the opposite sex to be happy. We are visiting my best friend who has a trans child. She was a girl until she was molested by a relative and then through her struggles decided she was trans. I went through that with my friend. Despite the fact that she has gotten a mastectomy and taken hormones you can tell she is a girl. She is losing her hair. I feel deep sorrow and compassion for her. How can I not?

My anger is reserved for transgenderism and those who promote it and those who are actively trying to promote sinfulness and trying to convert kids into it, like Drag Queens and teachers and those in the media and on-line. As Paul said it's a terrible thing when someone approves of such things. And that's what that song is about. Not just converting the kids into the activities but converting them to approve of them. And that's just as bad. My anger and offense are reserved for those who are actively trying to get kids to transition as an answer to their struggles and glorifying that. No not every transperson is. But we have teachers, media, clinicians, and transpeople who are. And with the 400% increase in trans kids they are having an effect. And we should be offended by that.

Okay. Let's look at the semantics Jesus uses. "IF your right eye offends you pluck it out". So, how is one offended by their own eye? Think about it and also read the parable of the eye is the lamp of the soul.

All hedonists sin against their own selves and dishonor one another, and a drag queen is just a man dressed up like a woman trying to look beautiful. Why should I be offended at what I see?

First of all Jesus was explaining how bad sinfulness is due to the eternal consequences of it. You are correct in what you say about hedonists. And drag queens are not just men who like to dress up. When you learn more about their lives and what they do and participate in it's extremely hedonistic. Filled with rampant sexual promiscuity, drugs and alcohol. You shouldn't be offended, but feel compassion for those trapped by sin. They are individuals headed for judgement and we should not be hating those who are so lost.

Those that participate in actively trying to recruit children into that however deserve our anger and offense. Like those participating in DQSH. THEY deserve our offense and anger for trying to get children involved in that.

 

[rjs330]

I'm saying it's a lazy way of thinking. And an easy way of bundling up what you might think 'the left' comprises. It's a bumper sticker phrase to keep the proletariat bubbling with righteous indignation. It's simple shorthand for those who don't want to think too hard. It's a convenience for some people not to have to address individual matters and would rather wrap up everything they don't like so they can crayon a simple 4 letter word onto a placard. It's a sound bite that wannabe presidents like to use. It makes people feel they are part of a group - the ones that are against 'woke'! It's equivalent to Marxism, used by people who probably couldn't tell the difference between Karl and Groucho.

Maybe that's what I'm saying. Yeah, I think it is.

I think lazy is the wrong word. Convenient is a better word. We use all kinds of words to describe something, good or bad, that boils down what something is. It's more convenient than having to say are type out several sentences or paragraphs trying to describe whatever it is. You may call that lazy, but I call it convenient. What you and others do with woke is try and turn it into something it's not just to try and get rid of the word because it's to convenient to use. No we are not using to it to describe ANYTHING we disagree with. We are doing it to describe the social justice ideology and activities. Woke is easier than having to say that everytime.

 

[childeye 2]

No it wasn't satire. They are are CLAIMING we are teachers ng out children to be hateful. They are making false claims. Why? Because they can't handle anyone disagreeing with them. Anyone who disagrees with what they are doing is a hater. And you fell for it.

Speaking for myself, they're not claiming I am teaching my children to be hateful or even teaching them to be judgmental of gays, because I find no conviction in the words of the song. There's nothing for me to fall for. It is however satire according to the author of the lyrics and the semantic undertones.
sat·ire
[ˈsaˌtī(ə)r]

NOUN

1. the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues:

And how many gay people do you know? It seems it is the FEW that find it disgusting. 77% of gays find them important and support them.

I have made acquaintance with probably about a dozen persons that were openly gay including a gay couple who were close longtime friends of my Mother in law. I had an uncle whom I knew was gay though we never talked about it, but he was a really nice guy. Incidentally, he was a very accomplished lawyer highly regarded in his profession and he died of AIDs. There are three gay men that I know pretty well and who I've talked to about it who find hedonism disgusting, and I grew up with a next-door neighbor kid three years older than I, who ended up deep into hedonism by the age of eighteen and his life was as tragic as a junky.

My daughters however grew up with many openly gay people in high school and who are still friends to this day. One of my daughters has worked at a title company for twenty years and she says many of her co-workers are gay and some are married, and she knows them well. I don't know what percentage, but she said there are a lot of gays in her field of work when I asked her. She tells me they all hate the hedonism at gay pride parades. Just last week another one of my daughters said she met up with an old friend who is gay, and he told her that he recently went to a gay pride event just to see what it was like, and he said he had to leave because of some of what he witnessed he found disgusting.

I don't know about your information, but saying they find these events important and support them doesn't necessarily mean they are referring to the hedonism.

You said this: "We have schools, TV shows, movies books at all aimed at kids to get them to ally with LGBT. No my friend this is NOT propaganda or trying to create outrage with propaganda and over generalization. This IS what is going on."

Let's remember that propaganda is subjective spin of what' going on either way you look at it from. I don't know what you mean by "ally" with LGBT? If you're referring to books and movies tv shows etc... promoting inclusion of gay lifestyles, that to me is different than approval of drag queens reading to children.

Concerning your other two posts, I think we're beginning to see eye to eye on articulation of the subject matter. The issue for me concerns Romans 1 which talks about how homosexuality came to be, and Romans 2:1 which points to hypocritical judgment. Subsequently, out of the fear of God I don't want to talk in terms that project virtue as a matter of choice/decision for mankind, but as the Eternal power.

 

[rjs330]

For me this would be helpful. If it's about hedonism, such as at gay pride parades then say it. Avoid blank assertions.

If it's about drag queens reading to children, then say that. To describe it as our children are being forced to accept LGBTQ+ culture is not detailed enough to show that. Make the distinction between a queer fixation and a gender dysphoria.

If it's about promoting acceptance of transgender identities or transexuals then say that and think to qualify "acceptance" so as to show whether it means showing mutual respect, or peer pressure when we say it.

Take an objective view, so as not to trust descriptions made by one side about the other. To be objective one must be able to understand and weigh the valid points from all subjective views.

Make the distinction between the political push for gay rights and the rise of transgender transexual disorders.

Hmmm... I think we do say that. The issue is they don't want us to say that. To say that is offensive to them and hate speech. You my friend are not to disagree with them. It's hate speech and phobic. You can be nice as pie but the moment you say "it's about promoting acceptance of transgender identities or transexuals" you are accused of hate and phobias. The moment you say anything about queer fixation its hate. Whatever you try and say after that doesn't matter. That's how it works.

 

[rjs330]

I don’t want to offend them. It’s the no matter what that concerns me

You can't disagree with them without offending them. That is the whole problem. You can't utter anything against what they are doing without them calling it hate, phobic and offensive. No matter what.

They want to be left alone to do whatever they want to do. Not just in their personal lives, but in the schools, media, in public, in politics, in social media and in medicine. Not not every single LGBT person is like that nor supports that. We only refer to those who do. But there are enough of them that do and so do their allies. And if you disagree with them. You sir are a hater and a phobic. In their eyes you cannot have compassion for them while at the same time disagreeing with them. Compassion means acceptance for everything.