What are your thoughts on this?

[Astrid]

There's humans and there's primates. Primates are similar to humans, but there's no way you would have any difficulty telling one from the other.

I can tell a spider monkey from a baboon
from a gorilla from an Irishman.

Eze peeze.

That hardly means none of them are primates.


People are far more similar anatomically to
a chimp than a baboon.

Perhaps you have a reason to feel you
understand anatomy and physiology better
than any biologist on earth?

 

[Bradskii]

There's humans and there's primates. Primates are similar to humans, but there's no way you would have any difficulty telling one from the other.

A primate may not be a human (and any given primate my be quite different from a human - a lemur for example). But a human is a primate. As are apes, monkeys, lemurs etc. And as are hominids (not humanoids as you said). The hominidae are a direct ancestor of homininae, which are ancestral to hominini which are ancestral to homo (us) and chimps.

So you don't have to go back any generations at all to find a primate in your family. You are a primate. But you have to go back something over 2 million years to find a hominid. Which is also a primate...

 

[ozso]

I can tell a spider monkey from a baboon
from a gorilla from an Irishman.

Eze peeze.

That hardly means none of them are primates.


People are far more similar anatomically to
a chimp than a baboon.

Perhaps you have a reason to feel you
understand anatomy and physiology better
than any biologist on earth?

I just simply know the distinct difference between a human being and a primate.

 

[Astrid]

I just simply know the distinct difference between a human being and a primate.

All the biologists in the world recognize
humans are primates.

If it's simple you can tell us how you
know more than any biologist.

 

[ozso]

A primate may not be a human (and any given primate my be quite different from a human - a lemur for example). But a human is a primate. As are apes, monkeys, lemurs etc. And as are hominids (not humanoids as you said). The hominidae are a direct ancestor of homininae, which are ancestral to hominini which are ancestral to homo (us) and chimps.

So you don't have to go back any generations at all to find a primate in your family. You are a primate. But you have to go back something over 2 million years to find a hominid. Which is also a primate...

While chimpanzees and bonobos are the closest primates to humans, it's pretty easy to tell them apart from humans.

 

[ozso]

All the biologists in the world recognize
humans are primates.

If it's simple you can tell us how you
know more than any biologist.

Find a biologist who says there isn't a clear difference between a chimpanzee and a human.

 

[Astrid]

While chimpanzees and bonobos are the closest primates to humans, it's pretty easy to tell them apart from humans.

Good. You see they are related to us.

I can tell a chimp from a bonobo, and so can they.

So can anyone.

The common possum knows its not a bobcat.

What significance do you attach to how we can
recognize similarities and differences?

 

[Astrid]

Find a biologist who says there isn't a clear difference between a chimpanzee and a human.

Cant be done.

Now you find one who says humans are not primates.

 

[ozso]

Good. You see they are related to us.

I can tell a chimp from a bonobo, and so can they.

So can anyone.

The common possum knows its not a bobcat.

What significance do you attach to how we can
recognize similarities and differences?

They are not the same species. A bobcat and possum can not mate and reproduce. It's debatable whether or not even a chimp and a bonobo can mate and reproduce. It is quite certain though that a chimp or bonobo can not mate and reproduce with a human.

 

[Bradskii]

I just simply know the distinct difference between a human being and a primate.

A human being IS a primate. By definition. Which is a placental mammal with good eyesight, flexible hands and feet and a relatively large brain.

While chimpanzees and bonobos are the closest primates to humans, it's pretty easy to tell them apart from humans.

They're not the closest primates ancestor to humans. The closest primate ancestor that you have is your father. Chimps look different because they branched off the homini line. Whereas you could say that we are a continuation of that line.

The closest we have in our ancestral line is probably Homo erectus who looked very similar indeed to us. Keep following that line back in time and we look a little different the further we go back.

 

[ozso]

Cant be done.

Now you find one who says humans are not primates.

Irrelevant. Humans are also mammals. But there's no mammal that can be mistaken as human. Nor can any mammal mate and reproduce with a human. Humans are also animals. But humans are not part of the "animal kingdom". Even feral humans raised by animals, are quite clearly not animals as we commonly define animals from humans.

 

[ozso]

A human being IS a primate. By definition. Which is a placental mammal with good eyesight, flexible hands and feet and a relatively large brain.


They're not the closest primates ancestor to humans. The closest primate ancestor that you have is your father. Chimps look different because they branched off the homini line. Whereas you could say that we are a continuation of that line.

The closest we have in our ancestral line is probably Homo erectus who looked very similar indeed to us. Keep following that line back in time and we look a little different the further we go back.

Humans have always been humans. Just as chimps have always been chimps.

 

[Bradskii]

They are not the same species. A bobcat and possum can not mate and reproduce. It's debatable whether or not even a chimp and a bonobo can mate and reproduce. It is quite certain though that a chimp or bonobo can not mate and reproduce with a human.

That's because even though they are all primates, they are not just different species, but different genus. Just because you are a primate doesn't mean you can mate with another primate. That's as daft as saying all mammals can interbreed.

But take it from me, you can have children with anyone from the previous generation. And that fact doesn't change however far back you go. Your direct great great x 100 thousand generations grandfather was always the same species as his father. But you're not.

 

[Bradskii]

Humans have always been humans.

If you think that we were created as such then you'll obviously believe that. And I've no interest in trying to convince you otherwise. But we evolved, so your ancestors weren't human.

 

[ozso]

But take it from me, you can have children with anyone from the previous generation. And that fact doesn't change however far back you go. Your direct great great x 100 thousand generations grandfather was always the same species as his father. But you're not.

I disagree. I believe that God created humans as humans. And that humans actually devolved from the originals.

 

[Bradskii]

Nor can any mammal mate and reproduce with a human.

You mean no mammal of a different species.

Look, you seem very confused indeed about classifications. I'm not sure you can argue against something that you clearly don't understand. I think you should call it a day and we can get back to talking about whatever it was everyone was talking about before this little taxonomic detour.

 

[ozso]

If you think that we were created as such then you'll obviously believe that. And I've no interest in trying to convince you otherwise. But we evolved, so your ancestors weren't human.

That's based on mistaking the remains of chimps as being ancient humans.

 

[Bradskii]

That's based on mistaking the remains of chimps as being ancient humans.

Well, why wouldn't you think that. It would have helped if your belief in a created mankind was stated at the beginning so we didn't have to waste so much bandwidth explaining taxonomy to you.

 

[ozso]

you... you... you... you... you... you...

Leave me out of it.

 

[ozso]

Well, why wouldn't you think that. It would have helped if your belief in a created mankind was stated at the beginning so we didn't have to waste so much bandwidth explaining taxonomy to you.

Can't this matter be discussed without personal critiques? Take note for example that the word "you" is rarely found in my responses to others.