What are the reasons behind a person wrongfully rejecting the Trinity? (Trinity Christians Only)

[Butch5]

And remember, some in these types of discussions' will say it is not enough to believe Jesus is the Son of God to attain to heaven, you must give him the title the one true God. Which in reality is stating you will be condemned if you stand on the plain words of Christ whe he walked this earth
The Holy Spirit could ,lead no one to think such, but the academic mind could

Yeah. I like the ones who say you're saved by faith alone and then tell you you're lost if you don't believe this doctrine or that doctrine. I thought it was by faith alone.

 

[Butch5]

No commentary. . .NIV translation.

Vv. 16-18 make it pretty clear what v. 15 means by "of"--priority, preeminence and sovereignty, which is a good description of "over."

Try context every now and then, it's fun!

The problem is, Clare, the word over isn't in the Greek text. It's of creation. It's in the genitive case, which is translated of.

 

[Clare73]

The problem is, Clare, the word over isn't in the Greek text. It's of creation. It's in the genitive case, which is translated of.

Granted. . .but the context is clear, Christ is over it.

 

[Butch5]

Granted. . .but the context is clear, Christ is over it.

He may be over the creation, but Paul said He's the firstborn of creation.

 

[Clare73]

He may be over the creation, but Paul said He's the firstborn of creation.

Previously addressed. . .see post #354.

 

[Horation]

Yeah. I like the ones who say you're saved by faith alone and then tell you you're lost if you don't believe this doctrine or that doctrine. I thought it was by faith alone.

It's a far cry from the early church isn't it. I've often heard it said the first century believers .Iived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. The greatest power seen in the Christian church and its most rapid growth was before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, not after

 

[Butch5]

Previously addressed. . .

That's one way to get around it.

The creed says begotten before all worlds or ages. Where do you suppose they get that from Clare?

 

[Clare73]

It's a far cry from the early church isn't it. I've often heard it said the first century believers .Iived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. The greatest power seen in the Christian church and its most rapid growth was before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, not after

And you think Paul was not a scholar and theologian?

 

[Horation]

And you think Paul was not a scholar and theologian?

Not in the sense of most who followed, no

 

[Clare73]

That's one way to get around it.

The creed says
begotten before all worlds or ages. Where do you suppose they git that from Clare?

The second person of the Trinity before he was incarnated.

His incarnation was not before all worlds or ages.

This is not that hard, Butch.

 

[Butch5]

It's a far cry from the early church isn't it. I've often heard it said the first century believers .Iived their lives in simple faith and a total reliance on the Holy Spirit. The greatest power seen in the Christian church and its most rapid growth was before the emergence of the scholar and theologian, not after

Yes it is. And, you are correct. The rise of the theologians has really damaged the faith. What we have today barely resembles that which the early Christians believed. As we see in the creed, they believed in one God the Father just as Paul said and just as the creed says. They believed that the Son was begotten before all ages, just as Paul said and just as the creed says. When you look at what they believed, it's simply what the Scriptures say. When we look at Scripture we see where they got the creed.

 

[Clare73]

Not in the sense of most who followed, no

And you know this, how?

Check out Paul's credential as he gives them in the NT.

 

[Horation]

And you think Paul was not a scholar and theologian?

Where is the wise man, where is the scholar. Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 cor1.20

 

[Clare73]

Where is the wise man, where is the scholar. Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1 cor1.20

You think no scholars are eminent Christians?

You think no eminent Christian scholars agree with Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:20?

I beg to differ.

Are you biased against training and learning?

 

[Clare73]

.

 

[Butch5]

The second person of the Trinity before he was incarnated.

His incarnation was not before all worlds or ages.

This is not that hard, Butch.

It must be because you don't seem to grasping it. Either that or you intentionally rejecting it. The Son was begotten before all ages. That means before creation the Son was begotten of the Father. This has nothing to do with the incarnation through Mary. The early Christians had to get this idea somewhere.

 

[Horation]

And you know this, how?

Check our Paul's credential as he gives them in the NT.

I have. Paul didn't spend his time writing long letters about fillique post trib or pre trib rapture, or delving into trinity for instance as many do today. He preached the Gospel that changed lives. Big difference

 

[Clare73]

It must be because you don't seem to grasping it. Either that or you intentionally rejecting it. The Son was begotten before all ages. That means before creation the Son was begotten of the Father. This has nothing to do with the incarnation through Mary. The early Christians had to get this idea somewhere.

Addressed in the post to which you are responding here.

 

[Horation]

.

.

I've never met anyone who emphasises the Holy Spirit who terms themselves a scholar or theologian.

 

[Butch5]

You think no scholars are eminent Christians?

You think no eminent Christian scholars agree with Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:20?

I beg to differ.

Are you biased against training and learning?

I didn't see that in the post. He merely said Christianity was better before the theologians.