What are Gentiles?

Devin P

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A lot of people say, that there are Gentile Christians, but this doesn't make any sense considering that all a gentile is, is someone who is out of covenant with God. Someone not in covenant with God. But, as a Christian, you are in covenant with God - meaning, you cannot be a gentile christian.

It's an oxymoron.

You cannot be an out of covenant believer, because being a believer puts you in covenant with God.

Through faith, we are grafted into Israel, meaning that we are in covenant, and are God's chosen. We are grafted in along side, natural born Israel, therefore, the term Gentile, if you're a believer in Yahushua (Jesus), no longer applies to you. In Yahushua, you're many things - but a gentile, isn't one of them.

May יהוה (God) bless you abundantly, brothers
 

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this doesn't make any sense considering that all a gentile is, is someone who is out of covenant with God.
I submit you have an incorrect definition.

the English word "Gentile" comes from the Latin Gens, Gentis meaning "nation." It is a direct translation of the Hebrew word "Goy" which also means "nation." In scriptural usage, "goy" or "goyim" (the plural form) refers to all other nations than Israel. That would mean that a Gentile is anyone who is not ethnically Jewish. It has nothing to do with whether you are covenantaly related to God or not.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I submit you have an incorrect definition.

the English word "Gentile" comes from the Latin Gens, Gentis meaning "nation." It is a direct translation of the Hebrew word "Goy" which also means "nation." In scriptural usage, "goy" or "goyim" (the plural form) refers to all other nations than Israel. That would mean that a Gentile is anyone who is not ethnically Jewish. It has nothing to do with whether you are covenantaly related to God or not.

Maybe he means Ger or Gerim in the Christian sense?
 
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Monna

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A lot of people say, that there are Gentile Christians, but this doesn't make any sense considering that all a gentile is, is someone who is out of covenant with God. Someone not in covenant with God. But, as a Christian, you are in covenant with God - meaning, you cannot be a gentile christian.

It's an oxymoron.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

"Greek" here is used as a synonym for Gentile. (Paul was sent as an apostle to the gentiles, i.e. non-Jews)

If we take the OP's argument to its logical conclusion, we would have to say that "Jewish Christian," "male Christian," "female Christian" are equally oxymorons, on the basis of this verse. ;)
 
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com7fy8

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The word "Gentile" can be used to mean someone who is not a flesh and blood Jew.

And to some people, maybe Orthodox Jews, the word could be used to mean pagan people.

And Monna has given a good scripture > Galatians 3:28. Our identity is not our gender or national origin, but we are children of God.
 
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Devin P

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I submit you have an incorrect definition.

the English word "Gentile" comes from the Latin Gens, Gentis meaning "nation." It is a direct translation of the Hebrew word "Goy" which also means "nation." In scriptural usage, "goy" or "goyim" (the plural form) refers to all other nations than Israel. That would mean that a Gentile is anyone who is not ethnically Jewish. It has nothing to do with whether you are covenantaly related to God or not.
True. But, who were the nations? They were people, that were what? Not in covenant with God.

All throughout the Torah, God describes the nations, as strangers, as those in enmity to Him, and followers and worshippers of other "gods". No where, other than the promises to the Patriarchs did nations ever mean anything good, but even that was talking about nations / gentiles.

Leviticus 19:34 - But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

There's countless verses where He says, that if a stranger wishes to serve Him, that they are to be considered part of Israel, and that Israel is to consider Him the same as a native born.

The gentiles, are represented by Joseph's coat of many colors, that's what it meant. A coat of many colors - people of many different colors/nations/times, all saved the same way Abraham was - through faith. He did keep the law of God, as Genesis 26:5 shows, but he was first justified by faith.

When Israel was blessing Ephraim instead of Manasseh, and Joseph tried to stop Him, it's because Ephraim was meant to be a multitude of nations, just as Joseph's coat implied. Israel, the entire northern kingdom of Israel was referred to as Ephraim, and constantly they were scattered and brought back - scattered and brought back, scattered and... you get my point. But, the last time they were scattered, they were never brought back biblically. They're still lost. But, they were prophesied to awaken amongst the gentiles one day, and to return again to the truth of Torah, and to be returned into the land. That is what's happening now.

Just as the olive tree: there's one olive tree, that Paul in Romans 11 says we're grafted into. There aren't two separate olive trees in which His chosen exist in. There's a wild olive tree (gentiles, the nations), and there's the cultivated tree (Israel).
 
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Devin P

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Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

"Greek" here is used as a synonym for Gentile. (Paul was sent as an apostle to the gentiles, i.e. non-Jews)

If we take the OP's argument to its logical conclusion, we would have to say that "Jewish Christian," "male Christian," "female Christian" are equally oxymorons, on the basis of this verse. ;)
It would be. We're believers and followers of the Messiah. We, collectively are the bride of Yahushua (Jesus). We are one, with Him, our Bridegroom. So, to say that we differentiate in any way makes no sense, we're all His bride, and as the word of God says in Genesis, we're made one with Him. All of us.

Jews, (natural born Israel) or Greeks (gentiles before conversion, and spiritually Israel after) are both the same - is what that verse is getting at.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

"Greek" here is used as a synonym for Gentile. (Paul was sent as an apostle to the gentiles, i.e. non-Jews)

If we take the OP's argument to its logical conclusion, we would have to say that "Jewish Christian," "male Christian," "female Christian" are equally oxymorons, on the basis of this verse. ;)

One does not stop being Greek or Jewish or Irish (or male or female for that matter) simply because they are all Christian. What it means is all those ethnicities now believe the same.
 
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Monna

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One does not stop being Greek or Jewish or Irish (or male or female for that matter) simply because they are all Christian. What it means is all those ethnicities now believe the same.

That is certainly one way of seeing it. And if you see it that way then it is OK to talk about Gentile and Jewish, male and female Christians. It is not an oxymoron.
 
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Devin P

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Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

"Greek" here is used as a synonym for Gentile. (Paul was sent as an apostle to the gentiles, i.e. non-Jews)

If we take the OP's argument to its logical conclusion, we would have to say that "Jewish Christian," "male Christian," "female Christian" are equally oxymorons, on the basis of this verse. ;)
Well, I mean kind of. I see what you mean, but Jews are in covenant, and Christians are in covenant. Both (concerning Messiah) are in covenant with the same Elohim, and both are under the same expectation. So saying a Jewish Christian would be redundant.

That verse means we're all one in Yahushua (Jesus), meaning to love one, is to love Him since we are His bride, and a bride is one with her bridegroom.

The verse means that there is no difference between them, both are to adhere to the Torah as proof of their salvation, both are to have faith in Him to justify us. We are all Israel, His bride.
 
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Monna

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but Jews are in covenant,

Only on one level. Jesus made it very plain, that those Jews that did not adhere to the terms of the covernant were not party to it. They were sons of their father the devil, not sons of Abraham. A covenant requires adherence to claim/maintain membership.
 
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Devin P

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Only on one level. Jesus made it very plain, that those Jews that did not adhere to the terms of the covernant were not party to it. They were sons of their father the devil, not sons of Abraham. A covenant requires adherence to claim/maintain membership.
I definitely agree! That's why in brackets I put "(concerning Messiah).

Jews concerning the messiah. Not Jews that rejected Him.
 
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Dave-W

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Acts 21.25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

Read the whole passage. James makes a clear distinction between believing Jews and believing Gentiles.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Acts 21.25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

Read the whole passage. James makes a clear distinction between believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.
 
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Devin P

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Acts 21.25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.

Read the whole passage. James makes a clear distinction between believing Jews and believing Gentiles.
Once you read the whole context that Yeshua HaDerekh linked, it's not really saying there's a distinction between them. It's saying essentially "look they're JUST coming to Torah, they're not going to do everything right immediately. Just get them to stop doing these staple things of the gentiles So they can fellowship with us, and they can learn Torah each shabbat."

Because if someone does the things they told the gentiles not to do, as an Israelite, you can't fellowship with them. It's not an option, they have to be kicked out. These 4, were necessary for a gentle to begin fellowship with Israelites - and in this case, Yahudim.
 
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Dave-W

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Once you read the whole context that Yeshua HaDerekh linked, it's not really saying there's a distinction between them.
His quote is from Acts 18. And taken by itself I would agree with you. But since James said what he did in Acts 21 - several years later - it was clear those instructions were ONLY for the gentile believers and that Paul taught that. Apparently some believed he was teaching that to believing Jews as well, which was NOT the case.
 
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Devin P

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His quote is from Acts 18. And taken by itself I would agree with you. But since James said what he did in Acts 21 - several years later - it was clear those instructions were ONLY for the gentile believers and that Paul taught that. Apparently some believed he was teaching that to believing Jews as well, which was NOT the case.
Okay, so let's assume that this is what they meant. That no gentile was to do any more than these things.

1 Corinthians 5:8 - Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Here, he's writing to gentile churches, and telling them to keep the feast of unleavened bread. He's even giving them instructions on how to keep them, with love essentially. I'll also add, that because he instructed them to keep the feast of Unleavened Bread, it goes without saying that they were to keep Passover as well, considering they go hand in hand.

Colossians 2:16 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

He's writing to gentiles here, but why would gentiles judge in what meats you eat? They don't, they're gentiles, they eat whatever meat they want to eat, therefore they would only have been judged if they were abstaining from certain meats.

Why would they judge in drink? They don't, in fact, historically whether it's reverence of the feast of saturnalia, or ishtar, heavy drinking was accepted and even expected when observing these things, therefore the converts Paul is writing to would only be judged if they were limiting themselves or even abstaining entirely.

Why would they be judged in respect of an holyday? Well, only God can make a day holy. They couldn't serve other "gods" and were surrounded by gentiles, so logically the only way they'd be judged, is if they weren't observing the times of the "gods" the gentiles were, and instead observing times and seasons God appointed His children. The Moadim.

New moons, why would they be judged observing these? Gentiles don't go off of new moons. Especially not at this time, because since like 43 ad, they were using the Julian calendar which used the sun. So considering they had used this calendar for about a decade, seeing people use a calendar that went off of new moons, would be unusual. Hebraically, new moons symbolize a new month, so for these people Paul writes to, to be surrounded by people using a calendar going off of the sun, and they use one going off of the phases of the moon, judgements are bound to happen, especially since gentiles generally didn't get a rest day.

Sabbath days. Notice that it's plural. What sabbath days do gentiles observe? Generally none. Back in this time, it was normal for gentiles to hate jews and judge them thinking they were lazy, because a day off wasn't something people generally got to enjoy, let alone several times of the year where you had several days off in a week. Sabbath days, are something gentiles don't have. It's only something ever given to God's children. Well, I mean, it's given to everyone but only God's children partake. So, if he's writing to gentiles, and he's telling them to not let anyone judge them in sabbath days, well they're living amongst gentiles, who would judge them? Unless they were keeping them.
 
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