What About Progressive Sanctification?

[garee]

the Son is Eternal just like the Father- They dwell in heaven together on the Throne. See Revelation chapters 4-5

I would offer.

Yes, as the Son of God not seen but not according to the temporal flesh as the Son of man . That one time propmised "demonstration" of the work of lamb of God who was slain from before the foundation of the world . . .before he created the first rudiment or element as a temporal thing seen is over. We by His faith as a labor of His love that works in us look to the new incorruptible heavens and earth

God is not a man.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

There are some that hope he was man and have a false hope as a lying wonder that another demonstration will be added.

God who is Spirt has no form to behold. In order for us to understand the unseen things of Him .We must mix the temporal things seen with the unseen faith, the eternal things of God .

Then the mysteries hid in parables can reveal the gospel understanding They glorify God. .Hid from natural unconverted mankind.

I beleive it why he has given us the valuable prescriptions like below for rightly dividing the parables .(mixing faith)

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In that way without parables, Christ the anointing teacher, the Holy Spirit spoke not.

God remains invisible .

Romans1: 20-23 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their "imaginations", and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[Noxot]

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

That applies universally to everything. Notice that it didn't say all angels are accursed. The gospel which is not another means false doctrines. The devil appears as an angel of Light. The gospel narrative is supremely simple and that's why humans can't accept it. The Son of God is the son of man.

 

[garee]

That applies universally to everything. Notice that it didn't say all angels are accursed. The gospel which is not another means false doctrines. The devil appears as an angel of Light. The gospel narrative is supremely simple and that's why humans can't accept it. The Son of God is the son of man.

I would offer there must be a clear difference between the unseen things of God and the temporal things of men. Its why we have two terms ."Son of God" the eternal not seen . and "Son of Man " the temporal seen , Jesus the first born of the brethren .

Remember Jesus as the chief (arch) apostle did the unseen will of the father who worked in Jesus to both reveal his will and empower him to carry it out. (Not my will but as your will Jesus said to the father)

Ephesians 2:19-21 King James Version (KJV) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

I would think if the English word for the Greek word "apostle" (sent one was used ) without any other meaning attached like in the old testament they did not use the Hebrew (shaliach) .

Then many of the ideas like apostolic succession or apostolic time periods or they must of seen Jesus ,they would not find there way of adding confusion coming from ones own imagination making then venerable. A hierarchy of sinful men lording it over non venerable ones.

If a person is led to defend the faith of Christ as it is written as that which works in us to defend us. . our armor of God, then we are considered apostles. Whether we are true apostles of false can be tested . Scripture defines the us in Christ, the teacher. and distinguishing us from then that went out because they were not of the us that walk by faith.. the eternal not seen .

Apostle "sent one" nothing more and nothing less.

 

[RickReads]

That applies universally to everything. Notice that it didn't say all angels are accursed. The gospel which is not another means false doctrines. The devil appears as an angel of Light. The gospel narrative is supremely simple and that's why humans can't accept it. The Son of God is the son of man.

Good luck with that.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

That applies universally to everything. Notice that it didn't say all angels are accursed. The gospel which is not another means false doctrines. The devil appears as an angel of Light. The gospel narrative is supremely simple and that's why humans can't accept it. The Son of God is the son of man.

can you clarify what you believe Paul is saying in Galatians 1 below regarding angels ?

Are you saying the angles in heaven are not Gods angels ?

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[Noxot]

can you clarify what you believe Paul is saying in Galatians 1 below regarding angels ?

Are you saying the angles in heaven are not Gods angels ?

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Usually Angels denote good souls who are in communion with God. Just like human beings they have a measure of understanding and they have freedom to become and thus can become lesser or greater than, just like humans, just like Jesus Christ.

humans can speak the truth and others will/might not understand them. so too can people stumble over angels. The devil uses his own folly to work the law to his own image and yet the law would appear to be good because it is of god. therefore evil spirits can take hold of a person's perception and tell them what a good being is. this can even happen when we try to understand God.

therefore God will not be mocked, you reap what you sow. the pure in heart are blessed and they see God and the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. No one would believe a servant over the master unless they were insane.

 

[Noxot]

Good luck with that.

How much of a measure do you decide to put on the saying the holy spirit will lead you to all truth? The things of God are known to God.

If he has richly blessed others should I be jealous or should I rejoice? the Pharisees and the scribes of the days of Jesus sure had confidence in their scriptures. I know the scriptures are a great gift of God and since I love such great gifts I try to receive as many of them from him as I can.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Usually Angels denote good souls who are in communion with God. Just like human beings they have a measure of understanding and they have freedom to become and thus can become lesser or greater than, just like humans, just like Jesus Christ.

humans can speak the truth and others will not understand them. so too can people stumble over angels. The devil uses his own folly to work the law to his own image and yet the law would appear to be good because it is of god. therefore evil spirits can take hold of a person's perception and tell them what a good being is. this can even happen when we try to understand God.

therefore God will not be mocked, you reap what you sow. the pure in heart are blessed and they see God and the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. No one would believe a servant over the master unless they were insane.

But an angel from heaven by default would be a good angel not a fallen one wouldn't you agree ?

 

[RickReads]

How much of a measure do you decide to put on the saying the holy spirit will lead you to all truth? The things of God are known to God.

If he has richly blessed others should I be jealous or should I rejoice? the Pharisees and the scribes of the days of Jesus sure had confidence in their scriptures. I know the scriptures are a great gift of God and since I love such great gifts I try to receive as many of them from him as I can.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Noxot]

But an angel from heaven by default would be a good angel not a fallen one wouldn't you agree ?

Ephesians 6:12, NIV: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Evil spirits exist in some higher realities but I couldn't say that evil spirits live in the heaven of heavens for instance. if an angel or Angelic Community starts to corrupt they start to fall down into hell.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Then the Son of God is the truth and I love all that is truth because truth is one. He said it himself, he is the way. but you're offended and you don't want to be God's son even though it's the only life that is eternal.

 

[Noxot]

What do you think it means when we are to no longer know him according to the flesh? fleshly tribes of humans have their leaders and they always fight other tribes for Dominion. The church turned Jesus into a great king and yeah you see it in the world, they tried to conquer it in the Name of Christ.

The Holy Roman Empire! the holy city of God, the Vatican. No, Protestants are the real tribe! King blah blah blah made laws! taketh down the monasteries. conquer, conquer. Nay nay it is we the Orthodox who are the Christian tribe! We are the True Church of Christ. You see the Holy Spirit only proceeds from the father and not also the son. The Catholic Church does err and they are the Heretics.

It goes on and on.

 

[JAL]

God who is Spirt has no form to behold...God remains invisible

Wrong on all accounts. Jesus lamented of His contemporary Jews:

"You have never heard His voice, nor seen His shape" (Jn 5:37).

Jesus saw the form, He spoke with the Father face to face just like Moses did.

God is not a spirit. He is a physical being. See this thread for a defense of that claim:
God Is a Physical Being

 

[garee]

Wrong on all accounts. Jesus lamented of His contemporary Jews:

"You have never heard His voice, nor seen His shape" (Jn 5:37).

Jesus saw the form, He spoke with the Father face to face just like Moses did.

God is not a spirit. He is a physical being. See this thread for a defense of that claim:
God Is a Physical Being

The quote "You have never heard His voice, nor seen His shape" is affirming God is a Spirit and not a man. God has no beginning of Spirit life or end thereof. He is not a created being. He is the Faithful Creator.

Face to face is simply revealed knowledge as it is written to revealed knowledge . Or faith the unseen, to faith the unseen.

 

[garee]

But an angel from heaven by default would be a good angel not a fallen one wouldn't you agree ?

Messengers rather than angels, the English understanding for the word makes its easier to understand.

They are the born again believers defined as as sons of God being re-born of God as new creatures which we are. . 1st John identifies them as who we are not knowing what we will be when we receive the promise of Hebrew 11:39. (neither male nor female Jew nor gentile again a new creation.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Job helps us understand the legion many spirits of error coming from the one spirit of the antichrist who works to attempt to make the word of God without effect.

In the passage below sons of God represent all the believers coming to the throne room of prayers with a request to God and the spirit of lies the accuser of the brethren (new creatures as sons of God ) is right there to accuse them .. out of the sons of God our heavenly Father offers Job "Hast thou considered my servant Job a son of God?

Job 1:6-10 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

No fourth party. The Lord, the believers, and the spirit of error called the legion.

Two parties during the garden of Gethsemane demonstration portion of the three day demonstration called the heart of the earth .

The Son of Man and the Spirit of truth that worked in Jesus to comfort and strengthen him to finish the word of two.

Luke 22:42-44 King James Version (KJV) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

There appeared a message from the father the Spirit of truth .No third party (another creation). In that portion the disciples were put to sleep and could not aid in prayer to help comfort and strengthen the Son of man. After the work of the father and Son working together was finished then they awoke and proceeded on to the second part of the demonstration, the cross .

 

[JAL]

The quote "You have never heard His voice, nor seen His shape" is affirming God is a Spirit and not a man. God has no beginning of Spirit life or end thereof. He is not a created being. He is the Faithful Creator.

He's certainly not a created being - no argument there. But the term "spirit" is just an English word mistranslating the Greek term pneuma and the Hebrew term ruach, as demonstrated on that link I gave you. That term means physical wind/breath. The philosopher Plato was a bad influence who moved theologians to start misunderstanding that concept as "spirit".

All the biblical data refutes "spirit" as shown on my thread.

 

[garee]

He's certainly not a created being - no argument there. But the term "spirit" is just an English word mistranslating the Greek term pneuma and the Hebrew term ruach, as demonstrated on that link I gave you. That term means physical wind/breath. The philosopher Plato was a bad influence who moved theologians to start misunderstanding that concept as "spirit".

All the biblical data refutes "spirit" as shown on my thread.

Hi thanks for the reply.

I would offer we must be careful how we hear or say we hear the understanding of God by His faith that works in us to the same faith .(faith to faith) The mutual faith of God as it is written that works in all who are given the new faith by which we can believe our invisible God.

Physical wind/breath the temporal represents our invisible God not seen. .God is not literal wind or water, both represent the unseen.

He uses the temporal things seen to help us understand the eternal things of God .A very valuable tool (20/20) needed to help us rightly divide the parables .

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The prescription above for rightly dividing the parables teach us how to walk by faith (the unseen eternal) they must be applied. or the gospel will not be revealed

It helps us to understand the wrath of God revealed constantly by a dying corrupted creation. Some deny the gospel faith to faith, or face to face and look to the temporal things seen .

Romans 1:18-23 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

The gospel. . . face to face or faith to faith in respect to the revealed knowledge. . not literal what the eyes see, the temporal.

Romans1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[JAL]

Physical wind/breath the temporal represents our invisible God not seen. .God is not literal wind or water, both represent the unseen.

You can't refute a position if you don't know the arguments. It's like a judge who has only heard one side of the story (prosecution or the defense) but not both.

For 2,000 years the church has only told us one side of the story. The wise thing to do would be to hear the other side - to take a second look at all the verses, from a new angle.

You're evidently unwilling to do so. Fine - but I promise you that, one day, when you are standing on physical pavement, standing before the physical throne of God, you will regret that decision. You will see a physical figure sitting on a physical throne and then you will feel ashamed of allowing yourself to be duped into spirit-nonsense (Plato's hollow and deceptive philosophy).

I see you have made your decision - that's between you and God.

 

[JAL]

Physical wind/breath the temporal represents our invisible God not seen. .God is not literal wind or water, both represent the unseen.

Not literal, huh? When the prophets prayed down Fire from heaven, it consumed the sacrifices on the altar. How does non-literal Fire perform the act of literally consuming sacrifices?

 

[garee]

Not literal, huh? When the prophets prayed down Fire from heaven, it consumed the sacrifices on the altar. How does non-literal Fire perform the act of literally consuming sacrifices?

Hi thanks for the reply.

Its a picture of the gospel the tongue of God having the power of new life or eternal damnation.

In various parables God uses the literal or temporal things seen to reveal the unseen spiritual understanding. (2 Corinthians 4:18) Mixing the unseen eternal with the temporal things seen. In that way parable teach us how to walk or under God not seen as it is written.

Again in wonderment they did not understand .Faith is believing not wondering.

I would offer Luke 9 like that of Mark 9 as a outward demonstration . The apostles in wonderment not understanding the parables.(Hid from them) On one occasion the apostles must of thought Jesus went of the deep end and they set up the standard of natural unconverted mankind out od sight out of mind (no faith) who is the Alfa dog a hierarchy venerable of men .the abomination of desolation making the faith of Christ (sola scriptura) without effect or desolate .

Luke 9:43-46 And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

Again and again offering parables the poetic tongue of God in a hope the apostles world learn how to mix faith the eternal with the things seen hiding the gospel understanding from natural, uncovered ,no faith mankind. .

When he looked towards Jerusalem but instead went to the gentiles. The apostles not understanding the parable asked that Jesus if he would bring down fire and consume all the gentiles.

In the end he revealed to the apostles what manner of spirit they understood after ."natural unconverted mankind".

Luke 9:51-55 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

[RickReads]

Hi thanks for the reply.

Its a picture of the gospel the tongue of God having the power of new life or eternal damnation.

In various parables God uses the literal or temporal things seen to reveal the unseen spiritual understanding. (2 Corinthians 4:18) Mixing the unseen eternal with the temporal things seen. In that way parable teach us how to walk or under God not seen as it is written.

Again in wonderment they did not understand .Faith is believing not wondering.

I would offer Luke 9 like that of Mark 9 as a outward demonstration . The apostles in wonderment not understanding the parables.(Hid from them) On one occasion the apostles must of thought Jesus went of the deep end and they set up the standard of natural unconverted mankind out od sight out of mind (no faith) who is the Alfa dog a hierarchy venerable of men .the abomination of desolation making the faith of Christ (sola scriptura) without effect or desolate .

Luke 9:43-46 And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

Again and again offering parables the poetic tongue of God in a hope the apostles world learn how to mix faith the eternal with the things seen hiding the gospel understanding from natural, uncovered ,no faith mankind. .


When he looked towards Jerusalem but instead went to the gentiles. The apostles not understanding the parable asked that Jesus if he would bring down fire and consume all the gentiles.

In the end he revealed to the apostles what manner of spirit they understood after ."natural unconverted mankind".

Luke 9:51-55 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

It is a reference to the gentleness of God`s grace in contrast to the aggressive conquest of the world that must one day take place.