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So, I just sit here and do nothing - and If I don't feel lead to - too bad, that's the Holy Spirit's job?
I got the sense there was a subconscious argument against a salvation requirement since in your theology there is no difference between justification and sanctification.
Romans 12
1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
That we would not be provided instructions like the above if we didn't have to do anything.
Well I definitely believe that I've never heard of it. What is it all about?What About Progressive Sanctification?
I don`t really believe in it.
Tell me why you do.
Now that we have defined terms, I know what you're talking about. 1 Cor. indicates that Christ is our sanctification. It is from our union with Christ that sanctification flows from. Just like justification, sanctification flows from Christ.
Romans 6:1-14 indicates that sanctification is progressive in our lives. We don't simply wake up one morning free from all of our sins. In fact, I find that once believers think they're free from sin God will reveal something in their hearts that is sinful. Beyond that the scope of the law is vast and expansive. Anyone who views the 10 commandments as a check list of 10 things not to do is deluding themselves about their sinful nature.
Point being sanctification is progressive in our lives as we become more holy and knowledgeable in the faith. We will never be perfect, we may backslide. But over time our works will be seen.
Well I definitely believe that I've never heard of it. What is it all about?
I have a dear friend that is a Nazarene Pastor, and the sanctification issue is a big one with him. We have many discussion on the subject. Reality is sanctification is a brought about by how willing we are to submit every aspect of our lives to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. I believe if one reaches a point where they are fully committed to living as the Holy Spirit leads, they are then sanctified, but that isn't an easy process for most.
Well I definitely believe that I've never heard of it. What is it all about?
The following scripture shows our part in the salvation journey.
2Ti 2:19-22 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
Yes we are saved by the finished work of the cross, but Chirst also has us on the path of "departing from iniquity", and "purging ourselves from sin".
I agree with all that but are you sanctified by these works or did you do the works because you were sanctified?
To me, it`s the salvation issue all over again.
The works come as a result of two things, 1) The grace of God to save me, and 2) the fear of the LORD. I am grateful to God for what He has done, but I respect His authority and fear to sin against Him.
Well, I don't know your friends or which church you attended back then, but 'progressive sanctification' is not the majority POV among Protestants.Well then I, and just about every protestant I knew, must have been the exception (I am assuming by "protestant" we mean "all Christians who are not Catholic or Orthodox"). Although we wouldn't have used words like theosis and deification... but we had the same idea. We also wouldn't have believed that deification was possible in this life.
Well, I don't know your friends or which church you attended back then, but 'progressive sanctification' is not the majority POV among Protestants.
That doesn't mean that I'm horrified by it or that I'm saying that virtually no Protestants believe that way, but what I wrote initially I stand by.
It's mainly associated with Methodism...and therefore also with denominations that stemmed off from Wesleyan Methodism--the "Holiness churches, for instance.I`ve only rarely encountered it as well. Do you know how prelevant it is?
I think we can look at the lives of believers and clearly see when sanctification is increasing. When a drunk gives up alcohol, for example, how can we not say sanctification is increasing?If this helps, this is what I believe happens to someone after they believe.
Eph 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Ok, he heard the gospel, he believed, after that he is sealed with the Holy Spirit. The washing away of sin and the sealing of the Holy Spirit sanctifies him permanently until the first resurrection.
Eph 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
He has been led by the Spirit,
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
He has been testified to by the Spirit,
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
He has been taught by the Spirit,
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
And he has been given the power to become a son of God
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name"
I believe the sanctification stays the same, neither increasing or decreasing.
It's mainly associated with Methodism...and therefore also with denominations that stemmed off from Wesleyan Methodism--the "Holiness churches, for instance.
So that's not an insignificant group, but neither do they represent the mainstream of the Protestant churches which date back to the Reformation era (unlike the Methodists who came along later and under very different circumstances).
I think we can look at the lives of believers and clearly see when sanctification is increasing. When a drunk gives up alcohol, for example, how can we not say sanctification is increasing?
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