What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

[Carl Emerson]

I would be careful about not having hope for someone who is in trouble.

Love "hopes all things," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

So, also I would not recommend that we take it on ourselves to decide someone can't be forgiven.

So, God's word is swift and powerful, sharper than any sword . . . to discern the thoughts and intentions of . . . our hearts. So, this scripture can test us, to see if we are ready to make excuses to give up on someone or not forgive someone.

"If".

My little two-year-old . . . if you try to fly by jumping off that cliff, you will fall and be smashed to death on the rocks below. So, stay with Daddy.

Little baby . . . not being mature . . . with not much to be expected of baby . . . starts to run to find out what flying down the cliff means. But > Daddy's hand keeps a hold of the child's hand. Plus, there is the mesh fence there . . . so, baby might get a crunch on his hand or a meeting of metal fence against his face. But then he still has time to grow up from his foolish capabilities.

If a person has trusted in Jesus to take care of him or her . . . I am not sure Jesus would just let go of the person so he or she is on one's own enough to totally fall away. Because if someone is on one's own . . . separate from God . . . what is sure to happen??

But ones might need to read a warning like this, so they don't take their salvation for granted, and so they don't just stop to assume they are guaranteed heaven, no matter how they mess up.

For that matter, it is written how our Father is guaranteed to correct His children >

"For if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not children." (Hebrews 12:8)

If God truly corrects us, I see that He changes us so we do not have the character to fall away. Because He changes us to become obedient and like Jesus.

He also puts the fear of Himself in us so we cant fall away.

Jer 32:40
40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

 

[lsume]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Word is true for those described. The question is perhaps more about where the individual is in relation to the first part.

 

[Guojing]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This verse is a great example that shows Paul could not have written Hebrews.

 

[1an]

​

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible. People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

You are right. An unbeliever cannot fall away. This warning needs to be taken seriously by born again Christians.

 

[1an]

To commit a comparable act a believer would have to forsake the gospel and become atheist, agnostic or otherwise turn to another religion, knowing better all the time.

Yes.

 

[1an]

Heb 6:4-6 context is not about losing salvation.

To begin with; here are just 7 of many scriptures. That make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal. (Jn 3:16 & 6:47; Jn 10:27-29; Rom 8:35; 38-39 & 10:9-13; Phil 1:6)

Some background: The main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is NEW ""BETTER"" COVENANT.

Christ is better: Better then angels, because they worship the Christ. Better then Moses, because He created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. Better then the law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

Life revolved around the Levitical Temple priesthood. These Jews who were having a hard time making a break from total indoctrination in a legalistic religion. Many are reversing course and choose to continue in their religion to avoid persecution and often being totally ostracized

The parable of the sower Matt:13 & Mk 4:5

4 Jesus said; a sower sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, the fowls came & devoured them

5 Some fell upon stony places, they had not much earth: they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 when the sun was up, they were scorched; because they had no root, they withered away

7 And some fell among thorns; the thorns sprung up, & choked them

8 Other fell into good ground, & brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some 60 fold, some 30 fold

Parsing Heb 6:4 (A) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened.
(MY NOTE: Enlightened definition: having been showed a rational well-informed outlook. Just because a person has been shown how to get someplace. Doesn't mean they will choose to go there)

Heb 6:4 (B) For it is impossible for those who have "tasted" (the Word)
(MY NOTE: To taste something: Means just that, "TASTE IT" not consume or accept the whole meal. But, to "TASTE". And now you can decide if you want to eat it or not)

Heb 6:4 (C) Were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
(MY NOTE: Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus said if I be lifted up He will DRAW ALL men toward Himself)

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted-up on a cross & more importantly from the grave)

Ok, Jesus sowed the Word (they were Spirit drawn/TASTED), the Holy Spirit confirmed had enlightened the truth into there hearts

Heb 6:4-6 scriptures are about the price of rejection & UNBELIEF! NOT loosing salvation!

Final Parsing:

"IF" they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. "IF" here is hypothetical.

Conclusion:
These Jews were drawn by the Holy Spirit, understood the truth & rejected Christ's once for all time sacrifice. After hearing, tasting & enlightened via Christ's Holy Spirit. They rejected the truth & to avoid persecution returned to their legalistic traditions/the law!

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You are ignoring our responsibility. Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, but woe betide those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit by denying Jesus, those three are One God. Deny one and you deny all.
.

 

[1an]

The prodigal didn't deny the Father, he just squandered his inheritance and went AWOL.

I think we need to accept Jesus position regarding prodigals and see that the prodigal was never not a son.

Yes. The lost sheep, like the prodigal, will always be welcomed back. The Good Shepherd even seeks to rescue them, but woe betide those who refuse the Shepherds call.

 

[Strong in Him]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

People can prove anything by taking a verse/verses out of context and not considering the background.

It seems that Hebrews was written to a church which had both Gentile, and Jewish, Christians. There was a threat of persecution against Christians. Those who were Jews could have escaped from the persecution by saying "we're Jewish" and going back to the synagogues. But to be accepted by the synagogues again they would have had to renounce their Christians faith - publicly admit they had made a mistake and Jesus had not been the Messiah. It appears that some Jewish Christians had been considering this, with the idea of repenting yet again and returning to Christianity once the threat of persecution had passed and they could be safe.
The verses in chapter 6 are a warning for those who have known all these things, experienced God's grace and love and yet want to turn their backs on it, renounce it and deny their Saviour - even if only temporarily - to try to save their own lives.
Jesus himself said, "whoever tries to save his life will lose it".

The whole book of Hebrews is written to show that Jesus fulfils and surpasses anything in Judaism. Chapter 1 says that God previously spoke through the prophets, but now has spoken through his Son. Chapter 3 says that Jesus is greater than Moses. Chapter 4 says that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. Chapter 5 introduces the topic of Jesus as our great High Priest. The author develops this in chapters 8-10. He says that the law was a shadow of what was to come, that a change of law was needed because there was a change of priesthood and that Jesus' sacrificial death was greater than the sacrifices of bulls and sheep.
The author encourages people to be strong in their faith, continue meeting together and to keep their eyes on Jesus.

 

[1an]

This verse is a great example that shows Paul could not have written Hebrews.

Paul tells us to run the race to the end.
.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Hebrews 6: 4, 5 and 6 it does not mean what many christians try to make it say. That is, that a believer can lose their free God given Eternal Life. When they trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Hebrews 6: 4, 5 and 6 is not saying that a believer can lose their Eternal Life. Eternal Life and the loss of it is not even mentioned in these verses.

 

[Guojing]

Paul tells us to run the race to the end.
.

If one doesn’t, Paul won’t say he loses his salvation, agree?

 

[1an]

If one doesn’t, Paul won’t say he loses his salvation, agree?

It is Paul who told us to run the race to the end, and it is Paul who gave us that awful warning in Hebrews six if we fall short.
.

 

[Guojing]

It is Paul who told us to run the trace to the end and it is Paul who gave us that awful warning in Hebrews six if we fall short.
.

And how do you conclude he wrote Hebrews?

 

[1an]

-​

Hebrews 6: 4, 5 and 6 it does not mean what many christians try to make it say. That is, that a believer can lose their free God given Eternal Life. When they trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Hebrews 6: 4, 5 and 6 is not saying that a believer can lose their Eternal Life. Eternal Life and the loss of it is not even mentioned in these verses.

You do know what happens to those who fall away?
.

 

[1an]

And how do you conclude he wrote Hebrews?

The writer consistently gives the same message. Anyway it doesn't matter who put pen to paper, it is the Word of God given by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Deny it, and all other scriptures at your eternal peril. That goes for everyone.
.

 

[d taylor]

You do know what happens to those who fall away?
.

When they (the fallen away) die they go to heaven.
There is no verse in The Bible stating other wise.

 

[Greengardener]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I had understood it in a broad way to mean that while they are fallen away, while they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God all over again and putting Him to an open shame, that even though they were once enlightened, a part of that unique out-pouring experience shown in the Book of Acts as the Holy Spirit was given, that if they fell away by a subsequent series of decisions of faith and actions, that while they kept their fallen thoughts, they wouldn't, indeed couldn't, repent. Indeed, while any of us choose the world, are we not at enmity with God's Spirit? We know that the bodies of those who turned against God in the wilderness testify to the same concept.

We know God in His mercy has given "Today" as the day of salvation to those who will repent and we are exhorted to hear Him while He is calling, because it seems apparent there is a time when He will have called for the last time. My understanding was that Paul was saying this to exhort us to the preciousness of this calling and use this reality to base our today choices.

 

[1an]

When they (the fallen away) die they go to heaven.
There is no verse in The Bible stating other wise.

(2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(2Pe 3:17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

(Eze 18:24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live?

All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

(Eze 3:20-21) Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 4:9) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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[d taylor]

(2Pe 2:20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

(2Pe 2:21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(2Pe 3:17) Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

(Eze 18:24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live?

All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

(Eze 3:20-21) Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

(Gal 1:6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(Gal 4:9) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
.

You posted a lot of verses that have nothing to do with a fallen away believer losing their Eternal Life.

Not one of the verses you posted mention anything about a fallen away believer losing their Eternal Life.

 

[1an]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I had understood it in a broad way to mean that while they are fallen away, while they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God all over again and putting Him to an open shame, that even though they were once enlightened, a part of that unique out-pouring experience shown in the Book of Acts as the Holy Spirit was given, that if they fell away by a subsequent series of decisions of faith and actions, that while they kept their fallen thoughts, they wouldn't, indeed couldn't, repent. Indeed, while any of us choose the world, are we not at enmity with God's Spirit? We know that the bodies of those who turned against God in the wilderness testify to the same concept.

We know God in His mercy has given "Today" as the day of salvation to those who will repent and we are exhorted to hear Him while He is calling, because it seems apparent there is a time when He will have called for the last time. My understanding was that Paul was saying this to exhort us to the preciousness of this calling and use this reality to base our today choices.

"if they fell away by a subsequent series of decisions of faith and actions, that while they kept their fallen thoughts, they wouldn't, indeed couldn't, repent." (Greengardener)

That is what the word 'impossible' means in Hebrews six.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.(Heb 6:4-6 KJV)
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