What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

[RickReads]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is one of those passages that needs extream exegesis. This has to do with the Jews. Some were going back to temple Judaism. No need to fear.
Blessings

 

[HTacianas]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It means just what it says. It caused a schism during the last Roman persecutions when the Church decided to receive apostates who had denied the faith back into the Church after a period of penance. The bible says -as you pointed out above- an apostate cannot be welcomed back, but the tradition of the Church is that one can.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Often when people who once were devoted Christians make experiences in life that let them question God and everything they used to believe so firmly, and who then turn their back on God because they feel like they've been betrayed - these people can be harder to be brought back to Christ than atheists who never knew God in the first place.
There are people like this in my own family.

 

[Der Alte]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.
Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

​

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible. People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

 

[RickReads]

​

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible. People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

I have no doubt, that these people knew who Jesus is, were filled with the holy spirit, and heard
the gospel with understanding.

What do you believe the powers of the world to come are?

 

[Sabertooth]

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

As long as one is

1. concerned for their eternal soul and
2. convicted to repent of sin,

they have not crossed that threshold.
Those are both evidence that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned you.

 

[royal priest]

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

It doesn't sound like it's referring to the kind of wayward believer that has a momentary lapse into sin. But someone who's faith is more in line with the demons who believe, yet tremble. Utter apostasy so complete that not even a fearful expectation of eternity in Hell is enough to dissuade their waywardness.

 

[RickReads]

It doesn't sound like it's referring to the kind of wayward believer that has a momentary lapse into sin. But someone who's faith is more in line with the demons who believe, yet tremble. Utter apostasy so complete that not even a fearful expectation of eternity in Hell is enough to dissuade their waywardness.

At the time Hebrews was written believing in Jesus was high risk. Fall Away as it is used in the New Testament means to deny Jesus and return to Judaism or Paganism forsaking others who believe.
These people the author of Hebrews is talking about did that even though they knew Jesus was the Messiah.

To commit a comparable act a believer would have to forsake the gospel and become atheist, agnostic or otherwise turn to another religion, knowing better all the time.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Heb 6:4-6 context is not about losing salvation.

To begin with; here are just 7 of many scriptures. That make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal. (Jn 3:16 & 6:47; Jn 10:27-29; Rom 8:35; 38-39 & 10:9-13; Phil 1:6)

Some background: The main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is NEW ""BETTER"" COVENANT.

Christ is better: Better then angels, because they worship the Christ. Better then Moses, because He created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. Better then the law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

Life revolved around the Levitical Temple priesthood. These Jews who were having a hard time making a break from total indoctrination in a legalistic religion. Many are reversing course and choose to continue in their religion to avoid persecution and often being totally ostracized

The parable of the sower Matt:13 & Mk 4:5

4 Jesus said; a sower sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, the fowls came & devoured them

5 Some fell upon stony places, they had not much earth: they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 when the sun was up, they were scorched; because they had no root, they withered away

7 And some fell among thorns; the thorns sprung up, & choked them

8 Other fell into good ground, & brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some 60 fold, some 30 fold

Parsing Heb 6:4 (A) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened.
(MY NOTE: Enlightened definition: having been showed a rational well-informed outlook. Just because a person has been shown how to get someplace. Doesn't mean they will choose to go there)

Heb 6:4 (B) For it is impossible for those who have "tasted" (the Word)
(MY NOTE: To taste something: Means just that, "TASTE IT" not consume or accept the whole meal. But, to "TASTE". And now you can decide if you want to eat it or not)

Heb 6:4 (C) Were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
(MY NOTE: Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus said if I be lifted up He will DRAW ALL men toward Himself)

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted-up on a cross & more importantly from the grave)

Ok, Jesus sowed the Word (they were Spirit drawn/TASTED), the Holy Spirit confirmed had enlightened the truth into there hearts

Heb 6:4-6 scriptures are about the price of rejection & UNBELIEF! NOT loosing salvation!

Final Parsing:

"IF" they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. "IF" here is hypothetical.

Conclusion:
These Jews were drawn by the Holy Spirit, understood the truth & rejected Christ's once for all time sacrifice. After hearing, tasting & enlightened via Christ's Holy Spirit. They rejected the truth & to avoid persecution returned to their legalistic traditions/the law!

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[HTacianas]

​

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible. People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

That's a point a lot of people overlook in reading it. If we look at it as a "list":

Those who have once been enlightened - Those who have heard the word. To "enlighten" a person meant to teach them or tell them something new.

Tasted the heavenly gift - The writer uses "taste" in two ways. One is the literal tasting of "the heavenly gift", meaning the Eucharist. Jesus spoke of it as the manna that came down from heaven.

Made partakers of the Holy Spirit - Baptized in the Holy Spirit. That is the only way to be made a partaker.

Tasted the good word of God - The metaphorical use of "tasted"

They

Heb 6:4-6 context is not about losing salvation.

To begin with; here are just 7 of many scriptures. That make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal. (Jn 3:16 & 6:47; Jn 10:27-29; Rom 8:35; 38-39 & 10:9-13; Phil 1:6)

Some background: The main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is NEW ""BETTER"" COVENANT.

Christ is better: Better then angels, because they worship the Christ. Better then Moses, because He created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. Better then the law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

Life revolved around the Levitical Temple priesthood. These Jews who were having a hard time making a break from total indoctrination in a legalistic religion. Many are reversing course and choose to continue in their religion to avoid persecution and often being totally ostracized

The parable of the sower Matt:13 & Mk 4:5

4 Jesus said; a sower sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, the fowls came & devoured them

5 Some fell upon stony places, they had not much earth: they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 when the sun was up, they were scorched; because they had no root, they withered away

7 And some fell among thorns; the thorns sprung up, & choked them

8 Other fell into good ground, & brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some 60 fold, some 30 fold

Parsing Heb 6:4 (A) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened.
(MY NOTE: Enlightened definition: having been showed a rational well-informed outlook. Just because a person has been shown how to get someplace. Doesn't mean they will choose to go there)

Heb 6:4 (B) For it is impossible for those who have "tasted" (the Word)
(MY NOTE: To taste something: Means just that, "TASTE IT" not consume or accept the whole meal. But, to "TASTE". And now you can decide if you want to eat it or not)

Heb 6:4 (C) Were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
(MY NOTE: Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus said if I be lifted up He will DRAW ALL men toward Himself)

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted-up on a cross & more importantly from the grave)

Ok, Jesus sowed the Word (they were Spirit drawn/TASTED), the Holy Spirit confirmed had enlightened the truth into there hearts

Heb 6:4-6 scriptures are about the price of rejection & UNBELIEF! NOT loosing salvation!

Final Parsing:

"IF" they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. "IF" here is hypothetical.

Conclusion:
These Jews were drawn by the Holy Spirit, understood the truth & rejected Christ's once for all time sacrifice. After hearing, tasting & enlightened via Christ's Holy Spirit. They rejected the truth & to avoid persecution returned to their legalistic traditions/the law!

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[Carl Emerson]

​

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible. People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

Does this position allow for a prodigals return?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Clean or unclean nous. Hebrews 10 refers to those who cannot return while Hebrews 6 points to those refusing to go forward.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Heb 6:4-6 context is not about losing salvation.

To begin with; here are just 7 of many scriptures. That make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal. (Jn 3:16 & 6:47; Jn 10:27-29; Rom 8:35; 38-39 & 10:9-13; Phil 1:6)

Some background: The main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is NEW ""BETTER"" COVENANT.

Christ is better: Better then angels, because they worship the Christ. Better then Moses, because He created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. Better then the law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

Life revolved around the Levitical Temple priesthood. These Jews who were having a hard time making a break from total indoctrination in a legalistic religion. Many are reversing course and choose to continue in their religion to avoid persecution and often being totally ostracized

The parable of the sower Matt:13 & Mk 4:5

4 Jesus said; a sower sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, the fowls came & devoured them

5 Some fell upon stony places, they had not much earth: they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 when the sun was up, they were scorched; because they had no root, they withered away

7 And some fell among thorns; the thorns sprung up, & choked them

8 Other fell into good ground, & brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some 60 fold, some 30 fold

Parsing Heb 6:4 (A) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened.
(MY NOTE: Enlightened definition: having been showed a rational well-informed outlook. Just because a person has been shown how to get someplace. Doesn't mean they will choose to go there)

Heb 6:4 (B) For it is impossible for those who have "tasted" (the Word)
(MY NOTE: To taste something: Means just that, "TASTE IT" not consume or accept the whole meal. But, to "TASTE". And now you can decide if you want to eat it or not)

Heb 6:4 (C) Were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
(MY NOTE: Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus said if I be lifted up He will DRAW ALL men toward Himself)

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted-up on a cross & more importantly from the grave)

Ok, Jesus sowed the Word (they were Spirit drawn/TASTED), the Holy Spirit confirmed had enlightened the truth into there hearts

Heb 6:4-6 scriptures are about the price of rejection & UNBELIEF! NOT loosing salvation!

Final Parsing:

"IF" they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. "IF" here is hypothetical.

Conclusion:
These Jews were drawn by the Holy Spirit, understood the truth & rejected Christ's once for all time sacrifice. After hearing, tasting & enlightened via Christ's Holy Spirit. They rejected the truth & to avoid persecution returned to their legalistic traditions/the law!

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I agree with BrotherJJ

Remember in marriage the unbeliever is sanctified through the faith of the believer.

In Christian meetings there is a sanctification given to unbelievers who attend.

Tasting the good things of the kingdom then walking away is the issue.

Taking the hard line I am seeing from some, is in opposition to the teaching about the prodigal's return.

For this reason before I returned to the faith, I encountered 'Christians' who held this view and could only relate to me with Judgement rather than Love.

 

[lismore]

This is one of those passages that needs extream exegesis. This has to do with the Jews. Some were going back to temple Judaism. No need to fear.
Blessings

Yes. There is a certain progression in the book of Hebrews, The Son superior to Prophets, Jesus Superior to Angels, Jesus Superior to Moses, Jesus the Great High Priest superior to the High Priest of Temple Judaism, the New Covenant Superior to the old Covenant. For those Hebrews the letter was written to who had come to faith but were still under pressure to take part in Temple Judaism, the point would be moot now anyway. To take part in Temple Judaism now you would need a time machine. God Bless

 

[FutureAndAHope]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This verse is not referring to people who may have wandered away from Christ. As James says:

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

If you look at Hebrews 6 it says "seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The person in Hebrews 6 is demanding another sacrifice, or should I say the re-crucifixion of Christ. But we know that the cross covers our whole lifetime of sins:

Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.

So the person referred to in Hebrews 6 has not just fallen into sin, no they have "fallen away", and died in their sins. It has to be physical death, for they can not re-crucify Christ in this age. Because the cross spans a lifetime of sins.

If any man confesses his/her sins in this age, they will be forgiven. For God is faithful (sticks by us), and just (will not deny the forgiveness that belongs to us in Christ).

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Der Alte]

Does this position allow for a prodigals return?

I would say no. See post #16 above What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

 

[RickReads]

This verse is not referring to people who may have wandered away from Christ. As James says:

James 5:19-20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

If you look at Hebrews 6 it says "seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The person in Hebrews 6 is demanding another sacrifice, or should I say the re-crucifixion of Christ. But we know that the cross covers our whole lifetime of sins:

Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.

So the person referred to in Hebrews 6 has not just fallen into sin, no they have "fallen away", and died in their sins. It has to be physical death, for they can not re-crucify Christ in this age. Because the cross spans a lifetime of sins.

If any man confesses his/her sins in this age, they will be forgiven. For God is faithful (sticks by us), and just (will not deny the forgiveness that belongs to us in Christ).

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I have to disagree with you. Fallen away doesn't mean physical death.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I would say no. See post #16 above What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

The prodigal didn't deny the Father, he just squandered his inheritance and went AWOL.

I think we need to accept Jesus position regarding prodigals and see that the prodigal was never not a son.

 

[com7fy8]

This passage is often seen and used to deny hope to those who have strayed from the path of Jesus Christ. Often there is little pity for those who are in this condition.

I would be careful about not having hope for someone who is in trouble.

Love "hopes all things," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25)

So, also I would not recommend that we take it on ourselves to decide someone can't be forgiven.

Share what you believe this means for a wayward believer and why.

So, God's word is swift and powerful, sharper than any sword . . . to discern the thoughts and intentions of . . . our hearts. So, this scripture can test us, to see if we are ready to make excuses to give up on someone or not forgive someone.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

"If".

My little two-year-old . . . if you try to fly by jumping off that cliff, you will fall and be smashed to death on the rocks below. So, stay with Daddy.

Little baby . . . not being mature . . . with not much to be expected of baby . . . starts to run to find out what flying down the cliff means. But > Daddy's hand keeps a hold of the child's hand. Plus, there is the mesh fence there . . . so, baby might get a crunch on his hand or a meeting of metal fence against his face. But then he still has time to grow up from his foolish capabilities.

If a person has trusted in Jesus to take care of him or her . . . I am not sure Jesus would just let go of the person so he or she is on one's own enough to totally fall away. Because if someone is on one's own . . . separate from God . . . what is sure to happen??

But ones might need to read a warning like this, so they don't take their salvation for granted, and so they don't just stop to assume they are guaranteed heaven, no matter how they mess up.

For that matter, it is written how our Father is guaranteed to correct His children >

"For if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not children." (Hebrews 12:8)

If God truly corrects us, I see that He changes us so we do not have the character to fall away. Because He changes us to become obedient and like Jesus.