What about Hebrews 6: 4-6 ?

[Clare73]

It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Some try to argue that this passage does not refer to born again believers but to some who only heard about Jesus.
How can someone "fall away" if they are not in a position from which falling away is possible.

One can profess faith and not yet really possess faith, as in the tares.
So they fall away from a profession of faith, not from a possession of faith, which was the case of those newly professing Hebrew Christians in Hebrews 6:4-6.

People who only hear about Jesus are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.

One can partake of, but not possess, the Holy Spirit, as in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Clare73]

Heb 6:4-6 context is not about losing salvation.

Correct, they were considering not entering salvation rest in Christ as the Hebrews failed to enter Canaan rest (Deuteronomy 12:9-10, Deuteronomy 25:19, Joshua 21:44, Joshua 23:1) in Numbers 14.

To begin with; here are just 7 of many scriptures. That make it abundantly clear that salvation is eternal. (Jn 3:16 & 6:47; Jn 10:27-29; Rom 8:35; 38-39 & 10:9-13; Phil 1:6)

Some background: The main theme throughout the book of Hebrews is NEW ""BETTER"" COVENANT.

Christ is better: Better then angels, because they worship the Christ. Better then Moses, because He created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. Better then the law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

Life revolved around the Levitical Temple priesthood. These Jews who were having a hard time making a break from total indoctrination in a legalistic religion. Many are reversing course and choose to continue in their religion to avoid persecution and often being totally ostracized

And so they were considering not entering into the full-time salvation rest of Jesus Christ, where we rest from our own work to save, and in Jesus' finished work which saves.

The parable of the sower Matt:13 & Mk 4:5

4 Jesus said; a sower sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, the fowls came & devoured them

5 Some fell upon stony places, they had not much earth: they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 when the sun was up, they were scorched; because they had no root, they withered away

7 And some fell among thorns; the thorns sprung up, & choked them

8 Other fell into good ground, & brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some 60 fold, some 30 fold

Parsing Heb 6:4 (A) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened.
(MY NOTE: Enlightened definition: having been showed a rational well-informed outlook. Just because a person has been shown how to get someplace. Doesn't mean they will choose to go there)

Heb 6:4 (B) For it is impossible for those who have "tasted" (the Word)
(MY NOTE: To taste something: Means just that, "TASTE IT" not consume or accept the whole meal. But, to "TASTE". And now you can decide if you want to eat it or not)

Heb 6:4 (C) Were made partakers of the Holy Spirit
(MY NOTE: Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(MY NOTE: Jesus said if I be lifted up He will DRAW ALL men toward Himself)

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(MY NOTE: Jesus was lifted-up on a cross & more importantly from the grave)

Ok, Jesus sowed the Word (they were Spirit drawn/TASTED), the Holy Spirit confirmed had enlightened the truth into there hearts

Heb 6:4-6 scriptures are about the price of rejection & UNBELIEF! NOT loosing salvation!

Well done above!

Final Parsing:
"IF" they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. "IF" here is hypothetical.
Conclusion:
These Jews were drawn by the Holy Spirit, understood the truth & rejected Christ's once for all time sacrifice. After hearing, tasting & enlightened via Christ's Holy Spirit. They rejected the truth & to avoid persecution returned to their legalistic traditions/the law!

It seems they were considering such and the letter is to convince them not to do so.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Der Alte]

One can profess faith and not yet really possess faith, as in the tares.
So they fall away from a profession of faith, not from a possession of faith, which was the case of those newly professing Hebrew Christians in Hebrews 6:4-6.
One can partake of, but not possess, the Holy Spirit, as in Matthew 7:21-23.

Yeah right! Total nonsense. I don't see anything like a "profession of faith" in Heb 6:4-6. If a verse doesn't say what you want it to just add words to it. One cannot fall from a spoken word.
How would Matt's audience understand it realizing they had not been exposed to a long period of teaching by hard core denominational believers.

 

[Clare73]

Yeah right! Total nonsense. I don't see anything like a "profession of faith" in Heb 6:4-6.

Profession of faith is as simple as saying, or just thinking, you believe.

If a verse doesn't say what you want it to just add words to it. One cannot fall from a spoken word.

You might want to reconsider your recommended form of eisegesis there.

How would Matt's audience understand it

The same way I do. . .those in Matthew 7:21-23 thought they believed, that they were believers,
but they were not, their faith was counterfeit.
So how do you understand Matt?

realizing they had not been exposed to a long period of teaching by
hard core denominational believers.

Kinda' like Paul's hardcore teaching on salvation and justification apart from faith's works?

Did someone rub you with a hot brick?