What’s the difference between a moral barrier and an immoral barrier

[redleghunter]

Democrats and Republicans both voted for in the past a barrier of some type at the US Mexico border. Then there was no rhetoric on the morality of doing so.

Why now?

Is it because the President wanted a concrete wall and that’s immoral? But now we see the President in some statements say “barrier” thus being open to what type.

So is any barrier immoral or just concete walls?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Democrats and Republicans both voted for in the past a barrier of some type at the US Mexico border. Then there was no rhetoric on the morality of doing so.

Why now?

Is it because the President wanted a concrete wall and that’s immoral? But now we see the President in some statements say “barrier” thus being open to what type.

So is any barrier immoral or just concete walls?

Walls and barriers are usually amoral. Except, of course that wall that called me a racial slur rhyming with Packer as that wall definitely was a racist an highly immoral.

 

[mark kennedy]

I don't know, but I don't think the boarder wall is a bad idea, I nearly voted for him over it. My biggest worry is that there will be a serious swing to open boarders as a result of his tactics. But you do raise an interesting issue, how do we weigh compassion with a need for security? My experience is that compassion can come at a cost, something you must be willing to endure. Meanwhile, open boarders is opening up this country to wholesale invasion, I seen this in LA in the 80s when I was there are trust me it isn't pretty. I see Trump and the leading Democrats playing a game of political chicken, running the country toward a cliff, it reminds me of the scene from Rebel Without a Cause, someone is going to get hurt. I see Trump and the Democrats walking around in leather jackets playing the tough guy, which is all fun and games until they start playing chicken and someone gets hurt.

The wall is only as good as the political policies that enforce the protection of our boarders. My feeling is if we can't get compromise and consensus now, we are going to get one extreme or the other. But that's politics, I just think we are better then that, or at least should be.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[redleghunter]

Walls and barriers are usually amoral. Except, of course that wall that called me a racial slur rhyming with Packer as that wall definitely was a racist an highly immoral.

Is there a supreme moral Magisterium which determines the morality of a wall?

We have barriers and even concrete walls protecting our troops overseas. We have walls around prisons and the homes of the wealthy.

 

[Sabertooth]

So is any barrier immoral or just concete walls?

Such are erected to deter trespassing. I guess it depends on whether "trespassing" is moral or immoral...

 

[mark kennedy]

Is there a supreme moral Magisterium which determines the morality of a wall?

We have barriers and even concrete walls protecting our troops overseas. We have walls around prisons and the homes of the wealthy.

Last time I checked the Vatican had a wall.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't know, but I don't think the boarder wall is a bad idea, I nearly voted for him over it. My biggest worry is that there will be a serious swing to open boarders as a result of his tactics. But you do raise an interesting issue, how do we weigh compassion with a need for security? My experience is that compassion can come at a cost, something you must be willing to endure. Meanwhile, open boarders is opening up this country to wholesale invasion, I seen this in LA in the 80s when I was there are trust me it isn't pretty. I see Trump and the leading Democrats playing a game of political chicken, running the country toward a cliff, it reminds me of the scene from Rebel Without a Cause, someone is going to get hurt. I see Trump and the Democrats walking around in leather jackets playing the tough guy, which is all fun and games until they start playing chicken and someone gets hurt.

The wall is only as good as the political policies that enforce the protection of our boarders. My feeling is if we can't get compromise and consensus now, we are going to get one extreme or the other. But that's politics, I just think we are better then that, or at least should be.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I know in Iraq the FOB walls we had were there from keeping bad guys out from killing us. That was a war zone though. Yet we still let in folks to work on FOB so that was controlled and where we can pick up the comparison.

You are right a sovereign nation must protect its borders and be able to control immigration into our country.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Is there a supreme moral Magisterium which determines the morality of a wall?

We have barriers and even concrete walls protecting our troops overseas. We have walls around prisons and the homes of the wealthy.

I do think once they start mouthing racial epithets they become immoral. Of course only the very special people can hear them speaking in such a manner.

 

[redleghunter]

Such are erected to deter trespassing. I guess it depends on whether "trespassing" is moral or immoral...

You do make a good point some of the more recalcitrant opponents seem to be on the side of lawlessness.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Last time I checked the Vatican had a wall.

But the Vatican wall refrains from speaking racial epithets. Just ask Pope Francis.

 

[grasping the after wind]

You do make a good point some of the more recalcitrant opponents seem to be on the side of lawlessness.

Only lawlessness that they approve of.

 

[redleghunter]

I do think once they start mouthing racial epithets they become immoral. Of course only the very special people can her them speaking in such a manner.

I have to say I’ve been around walls deployed overseas and at embassies and US and allied military facilities. They never talked back. Not that I started the conversation.

I did get a hint of Arabic from a Hesco barrier once but it was 125 degrees and I was on the hot roads all day.

 

[mark kennedy]

I know in Iraq the FOB walls we had were there from keeping bad guys out from killing us. That was a war zone though. Yet we still let in folks to work on FOB so that was controlled and where we can pick up the comparison.

You are right a sovereign nation must protect its borders and be able to control immigration into our country.

Yea I remember the Hesco walls and the Afghanistan forces that guarded them. It's rather odd that we are somehow locking horns over this politically because the real issue is what the people along the boarder know to be true, just being able to walk across is dangerous. I realize some people are just looking for work and it's not like I don't sympathize, but is it really that hard to get a Visa?

 

[Ringo84]

What's the difference between a good argument and a bad?

A good argument is able to recognize nuance and speak intelligently and cohesively to an issue that exists.

A bad arguments makes ridiculous logical jumps, putting words in one's opponents mouths that they use as a cudgel.

The OP is an example of the latter.
Ringo

 

[redleghunter]

But the Vatican wall refrains from speaking racial epithets. Just ask Pope Francis.

 

[redleghunter]

Only lawlessness that they approve of.

So it’s a subjective morality.

 

[redleghunter]

Yea I remember the Hesco walls and the Afghanistan forces that guarded them. It's rather odd that we are somehow locking horns over this politically because the real issue is what the people along the boarder know to be true, just being able to walk across is dangerous. I realize some people are just looking for work and it's not like I don't sympathize, but is it really that hard to get a Visa?

Why bother when you can just walk in and then get to a sanctuary city?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I have to say I’ve been around walls deployed overseas and at embassies and US and allied military facilities. They never talked back. Not that I started the conversation.

I did get a hint of Arabic from a Hesco barrier once but it was 125 degrees and I was on the hot roads all day.

Consider yourself fortunate that these racist walls did not attempt to bully you. Although perhaps you are of a race they find acceptable? I am still trying to discern exactly which races walls find morally inferior and I have no idea what races you might represent.

 

[grasping the after wind]

So it’s a subjective morality.

As all morality is.

 

[redleghunter]

What's the difference between a good argument and a bad?

A good argument is able to recognize nuance and speak intelligently and cohesively to an issue that exists.

A bad arguments makes ridiculous logical jumps, putting words in one's opponents mouths that they use as a cudgel.

The OP is an example of the latter.
Ringo

It’s not my argument. Nancy Pelosi said the barrier is immoral. Yet both parties voted for barriers in the past and they were built.

So do you want to address why barriers in general can be immoral?