We're in the end of days

[BABerean2]

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So what happen after the fulness of the Gentile or Church rapture, end of time???

Not according to scripture, Jesus setup a literal kingdom known as the Mill Reign,
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So how long will the Jews be blinded???

If all of the Jews are now blinded, as you are suggesting above, then how can thousands of them now be coming to Christ?

The verse you gave said "part" of Israel is blinded, not all.

The last Gentile comes in on the day Jesus returns at His Second Coming.

The question... "So how long will the Jews be blinded???" makes no sense, because all of them are not now nor ever have been blinded, nor will there be a time when every Jew will accept Christ.

You are promoting a false narrative and circular reasoning.

You have changed part of them being blinded into all of them being partially blinded.
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[Short Timer]

If all of the Jews are now blinded, as you are suggesting above, then how can thousands of them now be coming to Christ?

The verse you gave said "part" of Israel is blinded, not all.

The last Gentile comes in on the day Jesus returns at His Second Coming.

The question... "So how long will the Jews be blinded???" makes no sense, because all of them are not now nor ever have been blinded, nor will there be a time when every Jew will accept Christ.

You are promoting a false narrative and circular reasoning.

You have changed part of them being blinded into all of them being partially blinded.
.

Are you saying God is finished with Israel, it's a done deal, nothing else left to do??

If you are, you're mixed up worse than I thought.

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

How is it they can be enemies of the Gospel and still be "Elect".

And why is it for the "Sake of the Father", not necessarily for "their sake"???

Scripture is plain, there are some blinders on Israel that will come off after the rapture of the church, what are those "blinders" and why can't they come off until after the rapture???

 

[BABerean2]

Are you saying God is finished with Israel, it's a done deal, nothing else left to do??

If you are, you're mixed up worse than I thought.

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

How is it they can be enemies of the Gospel and still be "Elect".

"How is it they can be enemies of the Gospel and still be "Elect"

They cannot. It is impossible, because you are twisting Romans 11:28 to make it fit your doctrine.

Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two different groups of people both descended from Jacob.
There was the group who bowed down to Baal and a different group, who were the elect remnant of 7,000 who remained faithful to God and would not bow to Baal.

Later in Romans chapter 11 we again have two groups descended from Jacob.
There were those branches broken off of the Olive tree who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah and another group of elect faithful, who were the branches that remained in the Olive tree because they accepted Jesus as the Son of God.

At the end of Romans chapter 11 we also have two groups descended from Jacob and they are the same two groups listed in the paragraph above.
There were those who had rejected the Gospel truth that Jesus was the Messiah and there was another group of elect faithful who had accepted Jesus.

It is no wonder you are confused in Romans 11:28, if you believe there is only one group in the verse.


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

There were and still are today two groups of Israelites, those who rejected Jesus and those of the elect remnant who accepted Jesus.


Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

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[Psalm3704]

The knowledge that the pretrib rapture doctrine is losing ground, can cause strange behavior in some people.

Someone is not honest around here. Here's the scene from the movie with the subtitles unaltered.

 

[Short Timer]

"How is it they can be enemies of the Gospel and still be "Elect"

They cannot. It is impossible, because you are twisting Romans 11:28 to make it fit your doctrine.

Paul started Romans chapter 11 with two different groups of people both descended from Jacob.
There was the group who bowed down to Baal and a different group, who were the elect remnant of 7,000 who remained faithful to God and would not bow to Baal.

Later in Romans chapter 11 we again have two groups descended from Jacob.
There were those branches broken off of the Olive tree who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah and another group of elect faithful, who were the branches that remained in the Olive tree because they accepted Jesus as the Son of God.

At the end of Romans chapter 11 we also have two groups descended from Jacob and they are the same two groups listed in the paragraph above.
There were those who had rejected the Gospel truth that Jesus was the Messiah and there was another group of elect faithful who had accepted Jesus.

It is no wonder you are confused in Romans 11:28, if you believe there is only one group in the verse.

There was also two groups of Jews, the 10 Northern tribes and the 2 Southern tribes.

Do you know it was members of the Northern Tribes that accepted Jesus and the 2 Southern tribes (Judah/Benjamin) rejected him??

Joseph a prefigure of Jesus, fathered "Ephriam", who was prophesied to be the 'father of a multitude of nations" (Gentiles)

the "Samaritan woman" (prefigure of the church) at the well was a descendant of them, and Jacob, and Jews have no dealing with the Samaritans because they refused to divorce their Gentile wives when they returned from Babylon.

So in a manner of speaking, the 10 northern tribes (Gentiles) accept Jesus while the 2 Southern tribes did not.

and in the same way Jews have no dealing with the Samaritan, they have no dealing with the church either.

The "Split" continues even until today.

Joseph and Benjamin had the same mother, Rachel, all the other brothers were born to Leah, so there was a special connection between them, it's why Joseph wanted Ben for a hostage in Egypt.

It's these two southern tribes Jesus is really trying to get to have faith in him, Judah and Benjamin.

The house of Ephraim (Gentiles/Church) and the House of Judah (Jews) will become one during the MK,
but until then, they are as divided as they ever were.


Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

.[/QUOTE]

 

[BABerean2]

Do you know it was members of the Northern Tribes that accepted Jesus and the 2 Southern tribes (Judah/Benjamin) rejected him??

The Apostle Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin.
.

 

[Short Timer]

The Apostle Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin.
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Did Paul become a "Hostage" of Jesus???

Ac 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

Ac 22:10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

 

[BABerean2]

Did Paul become a "Hostage" of Jesus???

I am very sorry, but I am having a problem figuring out exactly what you are trying to say.

It is my understanding that Paul considered himself a bond servant of Jesus, if that is what you are trying to say.

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[parousia70]

Part of Israel was blinded, but part of Israel was not (Rom 11:1-5). The remnant Nazarene sect, of whom Paul was a ringleader (Acts 24:5), was the NOT-blinded part of national Israel. The ruling and/or militant sects (Zealots, Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees) were the hardened and blinded part. God used their blindness to launch Christ's mission to the whole Roman Empire.

The NEW covenant was made with the Church of Israel. There is no "church" outside of Israel. The Church of Israel dates back to Moses (Acts 7:38) and existed throughout the OT age.

The only true Israel today with any authorized covenant is the Nazarene sect, which grew from a band of Twelve into worldwide Christianity, fulfilling the promise to Abraham (Gen 12:3/Gal 3:7-9/Rom4:13-18).

God is NOT finished with TRUE Israel, which is the remnant the Nazerene Sect.
The rest have no part.

 

[keras]

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a scorching wind has gone out from the Lord, a sweeping whirlwind, coming down onto the heads of the wicked. The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside, it will accomplish His purposes.
In days to come, you will understand. Deuteronomy 29:4,Isaiah 35:5, Isaiah 48:6-8

Jeremiah 31:1-40 At that time, I shall be the God of all the families of Israel and they will be My people, a people that have escaped the sword and found favour in the wilderness. From afar God will appear to His people. 2 Thess. 1:10. He loves and cares for them and will build them up again, for a Day will come when the watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim: Come, let us go up Zion, unto the Lord our God. Once again, they will be happy and the Land will be fruitful. They will worship God in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 20:34-36

The Lord says: be joyful for Jacob’s sake, sing praises and say- God has saved His people, He has preserved a remnant of Israel. See how He brings them from all parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, women and children. A vast company, they come with weeping and prayer, God will comfort and escort them. He will lead them by streams of water, on smooth paths, for He is the Father to Israel and Ephraim is His eldest son. Psalms 107, Isaiah 11:11-13, Isaiah 62:10-12

Listen to the Word of the Lord, you nations, make it known to people far away. He who scattered Israel, will gather them again and will watch over them as a shepherd watches over his flock. For God has redeemed Jacob [the 12 tribes] and delivered them from their enemies. His righteous people will come with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14-15

Rachel weeps for her children. [Rachel is the mother of Jacob/Israel] Shed no more tears, for they will leave the nations and return to their own Land. God has disciplined Ephraim, like an unruly bull calf. After Ephraim strayed, he repented and now in shame and remorse; reproaches himself for the sins of his youth. God says: Ephraim is still My dear son, in whom I delight and I still remember him and have compassion for him. Hosea 11:8-9 Set up signs to mark your way, the path for your return. Come back virgin Israel to your towns. How long will you wander, My wayward child? Deuteronomy 4:26, Isaiah 63:17-19, Ezekiel 4:4-6, John 7:35
This will happen: a woman will protect a man. Judges 5:7 – a precedent?

The Lord says: When I bring My people back from exile, from all parts of the world, they will live in all the Land and be satisfied. Once more will these words be heard in the Land; God bless you, the home of righteousness, the holy mountain. Ezekiel 39:27

The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will plant Israel and Judah then increase their people and livestock. In the past My intent was to uproot and inflict disaster upon them, now I shall watch over them, to build and plant. Micah 7:11-12, Ezekiel 36:8
It will no longer be said that children will suffer for their parents sins. Only those who sin will be punished for it. Ezekiel 18:20

The days are coming when I shall establish a new covenant with Israel and Judah. It will not be like the one that I made with their forefathers, when I took them out of Egypt, that covenant they broke, though I was patient with them. This will be the new Covenant that I will make with the whole House of Israel, in the latter days; I shall set My Law within them, in their hearts, all of them will know and obey Me. I will forgive and forget their wrongdoing. Ezekiel 37:26, Hebrews 8:6-12
The Lord says: As the sun and stars are set in their courses, as the wind and the sea roars- only if this fixed order changes, only then: could Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me. Micah 7:19-20, Isaiah 14:1-2, Hosea 2:18-23
The days are coming when Jerusalem will be rebuilt in My honour. It will be holy to Me, never again to be demolished. Isaiah 58:12, Micah 7:11, Jeremiah 30:18 Ref: REB. Verses abridged.


‘A scorching wind, a sweeping whirlwind that will destroy the wicked’ - This is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event, the sixth seal of Revelation 6:12-17 and Isaiah 30:26a – a massive sunstrike that will affect all the world. Malachi 4:1-3, 2 Peter 3:7
‘God will save His people. At that time…a people will escape the Sword’ – The Lord’s righteous people will be protected on that Day. Isaiah 30:26b, Joel 2:32, Psalms 23:4

‘The Redemption of the Nazarenes’– In Jeremiah 31:6, the word translated ‘watchmen’ is ‘natsar’ meaning: to obey, also to preserve and protect. [ref: Strongs 5341] Another connotation is ‘nazar’. meaning to set apart, to consecrate and dedicate. [ref:Strongs 5144] It is the root word for Nazareth and disciples of Jesus were and still can be, known as Nazarenes. Acts of the Apostles 24:5 So it will be all the righteous believers who will gather and go to live in the Promised Land. Colossians 1:9-20

‘He who scattered Israel, will gather them again. His righteous people, will leave the nations and come, with great joy into a Land of plenty and peace. They will worship their God in Jerusalem’. – This is the great promise of the redemption of all God’s people, that is; all true believing Christians, who will live in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in peace and prosperity. They will build the 3rd Temple and worship God as in ancient days. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 40 to 48. God made unconditional promises to the Patriarchs and their descendants remain mostly scattered around the world. Amos 9:9, Ezekiel 34:5+11-16. They are ‘a vast company’, who now constitute a high proportion of the population in the Western/Christian nations. Their right to ownership of the holy Land will be proven when the title deed in Jeremiah 32:14 is found. But we are told very clearly in the New Testament, that;…those with true faith will share the Blessings promised to Abraham. Galatians 3:6-9, Isaiah 56:1-8, John 10:16

‘It will no longer be said: the children will suffer for their parents sins’. - The sins of the forefathers are paid for by the Israelite’s long exile. Isaiah 27:7-9, Isaiah 40:1-2
‘the Holy mountain’ – the Temple mount. The 3rd Temple will be built and the ordinances reinstated, until the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel ch.40-48, Zechariah 8:9

The prophecy from the book of the prophet Jeremiah 30 & 31, tells the story of how the Lord will punish the unrighteous by a fire judgement, then how His righteous people will go to live in all of the holy Land. All who by faith, that believe in Jesus will receive salvation. John 3:16-18
He will make a new covenant with them, in order for His people: Nazarene Israelites and those grafted in, to fulfil their destiny to be “a light to the nations”, and to spread the gospel of the coming Kingdom of God. This will be carried out by the 144,000 selected in Jerusalem. Revelation 14:1-7 The precedent to this is in Luke 10:1-20. Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 66:19

God’s people will live in peace and security, in the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in all of that area promised to Abraham so long ago. Genesis 15:18, Ezekiel 34:24-31, Joel 2:23-27
When they are settled and prosperous, the Lord will motivate a Northern confederation to come and attack Beulah, Ezekiel 38:8, Ezekiel 39:1-2. They will be totally wiped out by the Lord, Ezekiel 38:21-22, Ezekiel 39:3-5, Joel 2:20. This is in order to display His glory and power to all the nations. Ezekiel 38:23, Ezekiel 39:21

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will slowly recover from the terrible fires and earthquakes of the Day of the Lord’s wrath and they will form a One World Government, initially controlled by ten Presidents, but another will rise to take dictatorial powers. He will make a seven year peace treaty with Beulah, that not all the Israelites agree with. Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:32 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age. At the middle of this time, the World Dictator comes to Jerusalem and forcibly places his image in the Temple. Daniel 11:31 This triggers the 3½ year Great Tribulation, the trumpet and bowl judgements. Those Israelites who refused any dealings with the ‘beast’, as in Revelation 13:1-5 are taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14 1260 days later, will come the culmination of this age – the physical Return of Jesus, Zechariah 14:6-11, Revelation 19:11-21. He will destroy the armies mustered for battle in Armageddon. Revelation 16:16, Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5 Then, He will reign for 1000 years. Great will be that time!

 

[Psalm3704]

Gotta love old testament prophecies!

 

[BABerean2]

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will slowly recover from the terrible fires and earthquakes of the Day of the Lord’s wrath and they will form a One World Government

Those not in-Christ are going to be vaporized on the Day of the Lord's wrath.
No flesh will be saved.
We will be baptized by fire.

Only those that have the 4th man in the fire with them, will be protected.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.



2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

His wrath comes and the judgment of the dead occurs at the 7th trump.

Chapter 12 starts the story over from a different perspective.

 

[keras]

Gotta love old testament prophecies!

Ezekiel 33:31-33.... People will say: fine words, but they won't believe you or act on it. Only when the time for fulfillment comes, will they realise the truth of the Prophets.

 

[keras]

Those not in-Christ are going to be vaporized on the Day of the Lord's wrath.
No flesh will be saved.
We will be baptized by fire.

Only those that have the 4th man in the fire with them, will be protected.

Correct, we need the protection of the Lord during His terrible Day of wrath. Zephaniah 2:3, 1 Corinthians 10:13
But it is only the Middle East region that will be virtually depopulated. Ezekiel 30:2-5, Zephaniah 2:4-5, Zephaniah 2:12
The rest of the world will form a OWG, all as prophesied.

 

[Psalm3704]

Ezekiel 33:31-33.... People will say: fine words, but they won't believe you or act on it. Only when the time for fulfillment comes, will they realise the truth of the Prophets.

True

Matthew 13:13-15
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear withtheir ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’​

And until then.

Daniel 12:10 Many people will be purified. Those who are wicked will not understand but will go on being wicked; only those who are wise will understand.​

​

 

[parousia70]

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thess 1:6
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,

The 1st century Thessalonians Paul was writing to were being persecuted, and Paul here promises their persecutors would be repayed with tribulation at the same time the Thessalonains of his day would receive their rest from that persecution.

How can this remain unfulfilled to this day?

If this remains unfulfilled, the 1st century thessalonains have not yet received rest from their persecution... they must still be experiencing it at the hands of their persecutors, and the people who were troubling them have not yet been repayed with the tribulation Paul promised.

Yet, they are all dead.

Is it your position that the now Dead Thessalonains from Paul's day have yet to receive rest from their persecution?
That They are still being troubled by the folks Paul said were troubling them?

 

[civilwarbuff]

God is NOT finished with TRUE Israel, which is the remnant the Nazerene Sect.
The rest have no part.

God alone knows who the TRUE Israel is whether you believe that or not...and there is NOTHING you can do about it....

 

[keras]

Nazarenes are Christians, that is what any Christian is called in the Middle East region. Be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in for righteousness. Proved by Revelation 7:9...every race, tribe and language, in Jerusalem praising the Lord....

If this remains unfulfilled, the 1st century thessalonains have not yet received rest from their persecution... they must still be experiencing it at the hands of their persecutors, and the people who were troubling them have not yet been repayed with the tribulation Paul promised.
Yet, they are all dead.

All the saints who have and are to be killed for their faith, will be raised to reign with Christ for the Millennium. Revelation 20:4 Their souls are kept under the Altar. Revelation 6:9-11
Those who killed them are judged at the GWT judgement are will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:15

 

[parousia70]

God alone knows who the TRUE Israel is whether you believe that or not...and there is NOTHING you can do about it....

I believe what scripture teaches about who is true Israel, Namely Jesus Christ & His JEWISH Followers, with Gentiles Grafted in, and I don't NEED to do anything about it. But thanks for checking in.

 

[parousia70]

Those who killed them are judged at the GWT judgement are will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:15

The Lake of Fire is the same thing as Tribulation?