Were Daniel and John the baptist vegetarians?

[ricker]

=Stryder06;62580751I haven't embelished on anything. The bible says no blood in the meat. You're the one trying to make an exception to that rule by appealing to the Jewish Kosher laws as unnecessary. Those laws have no bearing on what God said. I'm not saying that you have to go Jewish Kosher. I'm saying that if you're going to eat meat, it needs to be kosher, which means, it needs to not have blood in it.

In the Biblical story I quoted it shows dumping the blood on the ground was sufficient for eating the meat. Do you think this is enough, or do you want to go farther?

 

[ricker]

I'm not super conservative. Just been doing some thinking. For a long time now my mother has been talking about getting away from meat because the meat we eat isn't kosher. She is far from cognizant of the jewish kosher laws. I believe this burden has been placed on her heart from the Lord. She in turn has confided this in me, and I in turn have taken it before the Lord.
.

I am actually quite receptive to a vegetarian diet. I don't believe a person should do so because the Jews got over zealous over blood laws, like they did over so many other laws. Do you prohibit people from picking up sticks, or writing, or erasing, or igniting or extinguishing a fire on the Sabbath? Jewish law says all this along with Kosher. Go with the what the Bible says and drain the blood from your meat before you cook it and you will be good with God.

We are, of course, saved by grace through faith and such contentions as this only cause stress to the saints. That is why I am here.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

I'm not saying law is bad, just that getting pickier than the Bible is doesn't further the Kingdom or help clarify the Gospel.

 

[Stryder06]

In the Biblical story I quoted it shows dumping the blood on the ground was sufficient for eating the meat. Do you think this is enough, or do you want to go farther?

I think that it was enough if that's what the lord instructed. I somehow don't think that you hunt for your own meat, gut it, dumpt it's blood on the ground, and then roast it over an open fire. I could be wrong though. If you do I most certainly need an invite to go hunting with you

I am actually quite receptive to a vegetarian diet. I don't believe a person should do so because the Jews got over zealous over blood laws, like they did over so many other laws. Do you prohibit people from picking up sticks, or writing, or erasing, or igniting or extinguishing a fire on the Sabbath? Jewish law says all this along with Kosher. Go with the what the Bible says and drain the blood from your meat before you cook it and you will be good with God.

I'm not concerned about Jewish laws. I'm concerned about God's law. I'm concerned about God's expectation for me as His child. What I don't want to do is make excuses because I feel as if I can't live up to what He's asked of me. I'm not necessarily advocating a vegetarian diet. I still eat fish, and turkey on occassion (which I'm moving away from now), but believe that it will probably be in my best interest to eventually get away from meat as a whole. I think that if someone wants to eat meat, so long as it's bloodless, that isn't a big deal.

We are, of course, saved by grace through faith and such contentions as this only cause stress to the saints. That is why I am here.

Indeed, but does grace cover acts of open rebellion? In other words, if we're obstanantly remaining ignorant of God's requirements, does His grace extend to us still?

[/quote]
I'm not saying law is bad, just that getting pickier than the Bible is doesn't further the Kingdom or help clarify the Gospel.[/quote]

Indeed, we should allow the scriptures to lead us. The bible says specifically that we can't eat blood. There's no need to appeal to Jewish kosher laws. We simply need to look at the food we eat. I think there's a reason why they call it "red" meat

 

[ricker]

Indeed, we should allow the scriptures to lead us. The bible says specifically that we can't eat blood. There's no need to appeal to Jewish kosher laws. We simply need to look at the food we eat. I think there's a reason why they call it "red" meat

The crux of the matter is what the Bible means when it says don't eat blood, or don't eat meat with the blood. You think it means absolutely no traces of blood allowed, I believe it means not to eat blood as a food. The clues we get from the Bible are interesting. Red meat eating is prevelant throughout the Bible by God's people, but nothing is said about how to prepare the meat in order to meet your "bloodless" criteria. We are told pouring out the blood on the ground is sufficient to enable meat to be eaten. I believe the idea of trying to get every last spec of blood from meat is not Biblical, but added by the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders just as the Sabbath laws I quoted were. You can say the Jewish laws don't matter, but the whole idea came from them.

=Stryder06;62587938]I think that it was enough if that's what the lord instructed. I somehow don't think that you hunt for your own meat, gut it, dumpt it's blood on the ground, and then roast it over an open fire. I could be wrong though. If you do I most certainly need an invite to go hunting with you

When I get lucky enough to shoot a deer while hunting one of the first things I do, of course, is drain the blood and rinse out the carcass with a water hose before skinning it and cutting it up and wrapping it. When you find the chapter and verse saying how it should be further prepared to be blood free as understood by you, please share it with all of us. Otherwise I see we are at an impass.

Thanks for the discussion and have a great Sabbath!

 

[REDBEAR]

Jesus wasn't a vegetarian either having eaten lamb and fish - all properly prepared which is something generally overlooked in SDA teaching. We teach clean and unclean meats but the meat is still unclean unless it is properly prepared.
.

Can you quote bible verse for that "Fact". "Jesus at lamb. Jesus died without sin. Bible says do not kill. Adam was given a diet of seeds, fruits etc and zero dead animal. They didn't roast the dead animal used for skins after the sinning of Eve/Adam. As far as I read bible Jesus didn't touch it. He knew good and evil from young (Isaiah) and took milk and honey....thats not eating lamb. Show me my brother in Christ

 

[Castaway57]

Can you quote bible verse for that "Fact". "Jesus at lamb. Jesus died without sin. Bible says do not kill. Adam was given a diet of seeds, fruits etc and zero dead animal. They didn't roast the dead animal used for skins after the sinning of Eve/Adam. As far as I read bible Jesus didn't touch it. He knew good and evil from young (Isaiah) and took milk and honey....thats not eating lamb. Show me my brother in Christ

Well; eating fish once or twice a year does not mean one is not vegetarian. Just means that there was nothing else to eat at the time...

 

[ricker]

Well; eating fish once or twice a year does not mean one is not vegetarian. Just means that there was nothing else to eat at the time...

You seem to know a lot about Jesus's diet. How do you know how often He ate fish, or how often He ate clean meat? He surely could have eaten goat for breakfast, carp for lunch, and duck for supper every day and still lived a perfect life.

The normal Jewish diet at the time was not vegetarian, and we certainly aren't told He was an exception. How can anyone honestly teach Jesus was a vegetarian? Talk about adding to Scripture...

 

[ricker]

Can you quote bible verse for that "Fact". "Jesus at lamb. Jesus died without sin. Bible says do not kill. Adam was given a diet of seeds, fruits etc and zero dead animal. They didn't roast the dead animal used for skins after the sinning of Eve/Adam. As far as I read bible Jesus didn't touch it. He knew good and evil from young (Isaiah) and took milk and honey....thats not eating lamb. Show me my brother in Christ

If Jesus didn't eat the Passover lamb, wouldn't that make Him a less than perfect lawkeeper?

 

[JohnMarsten]

Can you quote bible verse for that "Fact". "Jesus at lamb. Jesus died without sin. Bible says do not kill. Adam was given a diet of seeds, fruits etc and zero dead animal. They didn't roast the dead animal used for skins after the sinning of Eve/Adam. As far as I read bible Jesus didn't touch it. He knew good and evil from young (Isaiah) and took milk and honey....thats not eating lamb. Show me my brother in Christ

Redbear...

FIrst, bible means, do not murder, remember God commanded the israelites to kill animals, passover lamb for example, besides when God allowed man to eat animals, - how can you eat without killiing it?

remember acts, peters dream, God said hunt and eat...



- so I dont think your logic was very sound here...

 

[maco]

I don't find anywhere in the Bible were Jesus drove a car so if any of you heathens are driving cars, especially Fords, you had better repent...

 

[Stryder06]

When I get lucky enough to shoot a deer while hunting one of the first things I do, of course, is drain the blood and rinse out the carcass with a water hose before skinning it and cutting it up and wrapping it. When you find the chapter and verse saying how it should be further prepared to be blood free as understood by you, please share it with all of us. Otherwise I see we are at an impass.

Thanks for the discussion and have a great Sabbath!

It's not about coming to an impass. You make a great point about what you do with your deer, and I'd be hard pressed to say you'd have to go further than that. Problem is that your meat diet isn't solely based on what you hunt and kill is it? I would assume you purchase meat from your local grocery store, and I'd be willing to say that they probably don't give half the care in preparing their meat the way you do your deer.

 

[Stryder06]

You seem to know a lot about Jesus's diet. How do you know how often He ate fish, or how often He ate clean meat? He surely could have eaten goat for breakfast, carp for lunch, and duck for supper every day and still lived a perfect life.

Is duck a clean meat?

The normal Jewish diet at the time was not vegetarian, and we certainly aren't told He was an exception. How can anyone honestly teach Jesus was a vegetarian? Talk about adding to Scripture...

Jesus diet is never mentioned. Everyone is making assumptions here. You can't say someone is adding to the bible because they may think He was, and not be adding to the bible yourself by saying that He wasn't.

I personally don't think Jesus was a vegetarian, but at the same time I think His diet was much different than ours.

 

[ricker]

[=Stryder06;62608073]Is duck a clean meat?

I don't know what you all think, I guess, but it was on the list of Kosher meats on the internet so it must be correct, right?

Jesus diet is never mentioned. Everyone is making assumptions here. You can't say someone is adding to the bible because they may think He was, and not be adding to the bible yourself by saying that He wasn't.

I personally don't think Jesus was a vegetarian, but at the same time I think His diet was much different than ours.

Fair enough, but I would think the showing of proof would have to be on the side believing Jesus was a vegetarian, because there is no record of that diet being the norm.

 

[ricker]

It's not about coming to an impass. You make a great point about what you do with your deer, and I'd be hard pressed to say you'd have to go further than that. Problem is that your meat diet isn't solely based on what you hunt and kill is it? I would assume you purchase meat from your local grocery store, and I'd be willing to say that they probably don't give half the care in preparing their meat the way you do your deer.

You are of course correct in saying I eat meat other than what I butcher myself.

The phrase "not with the blood" carries a whole lot of ambiguity if you don't have any further Biblical clarification as to meat's proper preparation. Please take into consideration the Biblical examples I have provided if you don't have any other instruction.

 

[Stryder06]

I don't know what you all think, I guess, but it was on the list of Kosher meats on the internet so it must be correct, right?

Don't know. Always thought it wasn't clean. Never had it personally.

Fair enough, but I would think the showing of proof would have to be on the side believing Jesus was a vegetarian, because there is no record of that diet being the norm.

Again, I don't think He was. I just think His diet was better than the one we have today.

You are of course correct in saying I eat meat other than what I butcher myself.

The phrase "not with the blood" carries a whole lot of ambiguity if you don't have any further Biblical clarification as to meat's proper preparation. Please take into consideration the Biblical examples I have provided if you don't have any other instruction.

The phrase isn't abiguous at all if we're honest with ourselves. If I tell my child "Don't go outside" and I come home and she's outside, she couldn't excuse herself saying "Daddy, you didn't say how long I wasn't allowed to go outside. Your command was too ambiguous."

If God says "no blood" I personally think He meant it. I also think that He showed them by some means, how to make certain that their meat was prepared properly. If the only instructions provided were the ones you listed (dumping the blood and roasting it over an open fire), then by those standards alone we'd still be eating meat, by and large, improperly prepared

 

[ricker]

The phrase isn't abiguous at all if we're honest with ourselves. If I tell my child "Don't go outside" and I come home and she's outside, she couldn't excuse herself saying "Daddy, you didn't say how long I wasn't allowed to go outside. Your command was too ambiguous."

If God says "no blood" I personally think He meant it. I also think that He showed them by some means, how to make certain that their meat was prepared properly. If the only instructions provided were the ones you listed (dumping the blood and roasting it over an open fire), then by those standards alone we'd still be eating meat, by and large, improperly prepared

Forbidding the eating of blood if it is considered a seperate entity as a food apart from meat is indeed different from forbidding any traces of blood found in the meat, thus the ambiguity.

Again, I don't see any specific food preparation requirements given in the Bible to rid the meat of traces of blood. (Those methods would not necessarily be intuitive, as our discussion shows.) That seems to strongly indicate the prohibitions on blood was that of eating or drinking blood as an entity all by itself, and not intended to be a directive as to proper cooking or preparing of the meat.

Maybe if you think of the reason blood was prohibited in the OT things would make more sense. Blood was a symbol of the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus for all humanity. The prohibitions given to Israel weren't about traces of liquid in goat meat that might be blood, but fortelling the life blood shed by our Saviour on the cross. The laws aren't about health, but the coming Christ. The eating, drinking of blood was/is prohibited, not whatever traces may or may not be cooked out of meat. Symbolism!


I'm ready to agree to disagree if that is OK by you.

 

[ricker]

If God says "no blood" I personally think He meant it. I also think that He showed them by some means, how to make certain that their meat was prepared properly. If the only instructions provided were the ones you listed (dumping the blood and roasting it over an open fire), then by those standards alone we'd still be eating meat, by and large, improperly prepared

Using your extremely literalistic interpretations of eating blood as an example, I'm sure you don't use your furnace in your home on the Sabbath, as that would be kindling a fire in your habitation. (Exodus 35)

I suppose I can leave on this folowing passage, as you are convinced in your own mind, and that is fine.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

 

[JDMiowa]

Daniel 10: 2-3 After three weeks Daniel ate flesh meat and sweet bread.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Daniel 10: 2-3 After three weeks Daniel ate flesh meat and sweet bread.

a much overlooked verse!

 

[ricker]

Daniel 10: 2-3 After three weeks Daniel ate flesh meat and sweet bread.

You forgot wine.

I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.