Were Adam and Eve really deceived?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well, if Eve was only listening to Adam with half of one year. Surely Adam would have noticed that and would have clarified his remarks?

But I think we agree that the message is reading between the lines. That one way or another there was a miscommunication between Adam and Eve God communicated clearly to Adam. But there was not clear communication between Adam and Eve? Which led to her confusion and susceptibility to deception?

Throughout history even apparently with so-called "clear communication", women sin willfully,
and often take their husbands with them in sin.
Confusion and susceptibility to deception is common, and quite human (men and women).

As written in Scripture, (in James I think), it is (today) evil desires in people's heart that permits deception and if permitted to continues to sin, sometimes or often sin that leads to death (the kind of sin not even to pray for) .

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And it means that feminism is the original sin of humanity.

That's a stretch of definitions I think. Feminism is a rather modern (last 200 years ?) sin that is today rampant (and destructive to faith and destroying souls and young people's lives) and all too often is accepted and even promoted thus leading to more devastating sin and loss of lives.

 

[Calminian]

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

Eve yes, Adam no. article: Did Adam Know Any Better?

 

[akaDaScribe]

I assume He is spot on...doesnt mean i think it is kind, just or fair. I honestly find only one love in it...Jesus sacrificing Himself...the rest i find devoid of love.

I understand why you hold your opinions, at least in a general sense. What I'm hoping to convey is that our perspective is so limited. If my dog has a chicken bone and I take it from her, she probably thinks I'm being mean. She has every reason to based on her perspective. She had it, I took it from her, I didn't even eat it, she wasn't compensated for it; it's just plain mean.

What she doesn't know is that chicken bones and similar bones can break up, become sharp, puncture her throat, and kill her. I actually had a cousin who lost his dog from a chicken bone.

The point isn't to say that God does things for our own good, but rather to point out that I have no real way of communicating why I'm doing what I'm doing to my dog. I could tell her why, but she won't understand. There is simply a limit to what she can understand.

So the thing is, we sometimes have a way of thinking our logic is true to the highest level. But we really have no idea what the higher levels, let alone the highest level, is like. Cliches like "His ways are beyond our ways" and "we just have to learn to trust Him" are efforts to express this.

And I realize my dog will probably never understand about the bone or think it's fair. But I hope she knows enough about me that she can understand, that she loves me anyway.