Were Adam and Eve really deceived?

[derpytia]

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

 

[Jonaitis]

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

It was Eve who was deceived, Adam broke faith when he listened to his wife. The order was by design to have Adam sin. Satan used his wife for the purpose to make Adam fall, since his sin was far more damaging and broader in scope in its consequences.

If they had passed this trial or test, as I see it to be a condition to an agreement between Adam and his Maker, he, with his whole posterity (us), would have entered/translated into a state of eternal life and happiness; or they had already enjoyed that state as long as they remained obedient to the commandment (and possibly his descendants as well). There are many theories. Either way, his obedience would have led to eternal life. In Adam we fall short of the glory of God, because all have sinned in him and from him; Christ came to win what we lost in Adam, to accomplish what Adam failed to gain on behalf of man.

I don't think we can ever blame Satan alone for our own willful sinning, even if he employs means to deceive us by the things/persons in this life.

I don't believe so. Innocence and Perfection are two entirely different things. As said above, I believe that Adam was innocent, but not perfected yet. When the trial was over, had they obeyed, they may have become perfect (similar to how we will be glorified). To be perfect would imply an unconditional ground of obedience. Perfection/Glory was the goal of the commandment, the promise of the condition, but Adam did not attain it, and we didn't in him. We will be translated to glory and become perfect in Christ at the last day.

 

[Romans 8]

Adam was supposed to fail. This is certain. The tree of good and evil was literally smack-dab in the center of Eden and they were told specifically not to eat it. If they did not eat the fruit, Jesus would not have needed to do His work on the cross. But we already know Jesus's work was planned before the universe was created.

I don't know if we have "evil hearts". We were born with a Spirit and a soul. If we listen to our Spirit, then we find Life. If we rebel, we find death.

I don't think Adam and Eve were perfect. They were sinless up to the point of sinning (obviously). And they paved the way for us today, for God to call us back to Him. It's too bad that so many are not taking Him up on His offer though.

 

[childeye 2]

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Here's the sticking point, Adam and Eve had a fair choice to obey or disobey. They had all the evidence they needed of God's goodness and loving care for them. Until that point, they never experienced evil and were well provided for by God. Yet they chose to listen and believe a serpent that they had just met over the word and command of someone they had a close relationship to and provided for their every need for some time. I don't think they were deceived in the way that we know deception. I think they actually knew better and knew what was the right choice and what was the wrong choice. And they chose poorly based on all the evidence they had of God's goodness. And we make similar mistakes and choices all the time as sinners, despite our knowledge of the goodness of God.

It opens up a whole load of questions as a result.

Were they really deceived or were they just given an opportunity to fail?
If they had passed this test would they have failed another?
How much of our poor decision making and disobedience is the result of actual deception by Satan or our own evil hearts?
Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

They never had any reason to distrust God, but the serpent was cunning and he was subtle in convincing Eve that her and Adam were too naïve to know that they were being taken advantage of.

The problem is vanity. Satan tempts us by appealing to our vanity, promising something that will add to our stature, but instead it corrupts us because you can't fix what's not broken. So Eve ate to improve herself and Adam who knew better doubted his own self and followed the woman.

I believe that every act of sin is the product of believing a lie. It can't be because we were believing the Truth.

 

[derpytia]

I believe that every act of sin is the product of believing a lie. It can't be because we were believing the Truth.

But as Christians we know what is right from wrong and yet we still sin despite knowing that. Are we still deceived then or is it more of a bad habit sort of thing?

 

[derpytia]

They never had any reason to distrust God, but the serpent was cunning and he was subtle in convincing Eve that her and Adam were too naïve to know that they were being taken advantage of.

The problem is vanity. Satan tempts us by appealing to our vanity, promising something that will add to our stature, but instead it corrupts us because you can't fix what's not broken. So Eve ate to improve herself and Adam who knew better doubted his own self and followed the woman.

I believe that every act of sin is the product of believing a lie. It can't be because we were believing the Truth.

Vanity is considered a sin of pride in some Christian teachings. If Eve had not sinned up until that point, how could she have vanity? Or did Eve have a sinful heart that simply hadn't been appealed to yet?

 

[david shelby]

Per Paul's interpretation, Eve alone was deceived, and Adam was just hen-pecked.

 

[SkyWriting]

Were Adam and Eve actually considered perfect and holy before the Fall or just something close to it?

Perfect.
Perfection is not rape or slavery, so in Love, people must choose communion.

 

[derpytia]

Perfect.
Perfection is not rape or slavery, so in Love, people must choose communion.

... I'm not understanding your reply very well. Maybe rephrase it or explain it a bit more? I'm not sure what rape and slavery have to do with The Fall (though they are certainly byproducts of it).

 

[derpytia]

Per Paul's interpretation, Eve alone was deceived, and Adam was just hen-pecked.

How then was Eve deceived? If she had no prior sin in her and she had evidence of God's goodness and a relationship with Him weighed against the unproven words of a stranger, how then was she deceived?

Could it be that we humans were either meant to Fall or that Adam and Eve were created imperfect or with an inclination to sin? Or rather, is sin not purely the result of Satan and rather the result of the imperfect heart of Man?

 

[Strong in Him]

A fair amount of Christians say that Adam and Eve ate the fruit God commanded them not to eat because Satan deceived them into believing it was good for them and would make them like God. Many Christians say that because they didn't know better they were easily decieved.

Eve was deceived.
Adam heard God's command for himself and chose to disobey.

 

[Strong in Him]

How then was Eve deceived? If she had no prior sin in her and she had evidence of God's goodness and a relationship with Him weighed against the unproven words of a stranger, how then was she deceived?

We are not told that God told Eve directly about his command not to eat the fruit of the tree. If he didn't - and we don't know - the only way she could have heard of it was from Adam. Maybe she wasn't listening properly.
Certainly when she told the serpent what God had supposedly said, she got it wrong.

 

[derpytia]

Eve was deceived.
Adam heard God's command for himself and chose to disobey.

But how could Eve be deceived if she was also given the command and had the same evidence as Adam for God's goodness to weigh against the words of a stranger. It doesn't make sense to believe someone you just met with no evidence over someone you've known and have had a good relationship with with tons of evidence.

 

[derpytia]

We are not told that God told Eve directly about his command not to eat the fruit of the tree. If he didn't - and we don't know - the only way she could have heard of it was from Adam. Maybe she wasn't listening properly.
Certainly when she told the serpent what God had supposedly said, she got it wrong.

Regardless of whether she got it word-for-word, she got the basic message: to not eat of that specific tree or she will surely die. She knew it was wrong.

 

[david shelby]

How then was Eve deceived? If she had no prior sin in her and she had evidence of God's goodness and a relationship with Him weighed against the unproven words of a stranger, how then was she deceived?

Eve had the primordial feminism within her. She wanted to be the boss. And along comes the snake and says if you eat this fruit you get to be the boss of the universe (i.e. become God). So of course she went for it. That is the inherent female flaw, their primordial rebellion against their husbands out of resentment for being made second, and rebellion against God for not making them male.

Adam had the primordial flaw of hen-peckedness and love-sickness endemic to men. Adam felt his life was meaningless without a woman. Adam felt getting a woman is what makes life worth living. So when his feminist wife in her attempt to become God ate the fruit the snake told her would make her the Boss of All, and as a result she was going to die, because the fruit was poison, Adam decided to eat the fruit with her (actually obeying her command, for she spoke to him as if she were God, telling him to eat it, commanding him), knowing it was poison, and yet he ate it anyway, to die with his wife, because he couldn't conceive of life without a woman.

The story is about how Eve made Adam the first male feminist. And it means that feminism is the original sin of humanity. And God's solution to that original sin was to put the man unquestionable in charge and tell the woman that all future generations of women must submit to their husbands.

 

[derpytia]

Eve had the primordial feminism within her. She wanted to be the boss. And along comes the snake and says if you eat this fruit you get to be the boss of the universe (i.e. become God). So of course she went for it. That is the inherent female flaw, their primordial rebellion against their husbands out of resentment for being made second.

Adam had the primordial flaw of hen-peckedness and love-sickness endemic to men. Adam felt his life was meaningless without a woman. Adam felt getting a woman is what makes life worth living. So when his feminist wife in her attempt to become God ate the fruit the snake told her would make her the Boss of All, and as a result she was going to die, because the fruit was poison, Adam decided to eat the fruit with her, knowing it was poison, and yet he ate it anyway, to die with his wife, because he couldn't conceive of life without a woman.

The story is an allegory for how Eve made Adam the first male feminist. And it means that feminism is the original sin of humanity. And God's solution to that original sin was to put the man unquestionable in charge and tell the woman that all future generations of men must submit to their husbands.

So your point (aside from the tie in to your own political beliefs) is that Adam and Eve were created to be naturally inclined to act sinful from the beginning. This doesn't make sense because God would not call His creation "good" and interact with it in such a person way as He did before The Fall if there was sin within it because He is ultimately Holy and cannot abide by sin.

 

[~Zao~]

^^ What a bunch of crock. The sin of Cain received the same judgement, sin is knocking at your door. Choose to side with, be in relationship with, sin, and it will dominate you. The first-born in mankind must be put to death.

 

[Strong in Him]

Regardless of whether she got it word-for-word, she got the basic message: to not eat of that specific tree or she will surely die. She knew it was wrong.

Yes, but if she didn't get it word for word - from God himself - it would have been easier for the devil to plant doubt in her mind.
If you KNOW something is true, beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can't be deceived, or tricked, into thinking that it isn't so. And the devil flatly contradicted God's word anyway - he said "you will not die".

 

[david shelby]

So your point (aside from the tie in to your own political beliefs) is that Adam and Eve were created to be naturally inclined to act sinful from the beginning. This doesn't make sense because God would not call His creation "good" and interact with it in such a person way as He did before The Fall if there was sin within it because He is ultimately Holy and cannot abide by sin.

If feminism is not an inherent design flaw in women, and longing so much for women that they will put up with such nonsense is not an inherent design flaw in men, that goes back to the very act of creation, then I don't exist, and neither do you, and nothing is real.

BUT: Maybe that flaw is there as a test, to see what individuals can overcome it. Adam and Eve failed that test. But we each get our own test.

 

[Strong in Him]

Eve had the primordial feminism within her. She wanted to be the boss.

I don't believe that; Scripture doesn't say so.
The sin was that they disobeyed God - and they were punished for it. Had Eve said to God, "it's not my fault you created me to be a feminist", I doubt he would have punished her.

That is the inherent female flaw, their primordial rebellion against their husbands out of resentment for being made second, and rebellion against God for not making them male.

Nonsense.
1 Eve was deceived. Her sin was disobedience, not feminism.
2 Eve was perfect before she disobeyed.
3 Where do you get the idea that women resent "being made second"? I certainly don't - and I doubt non Christians even believe it.
4 Where do you get the idea that women are rebelling against Gd for not making them male? I love God and I'm glad I'm not male. I'm certain their are other female Christians who feel the same.

Adam had the primordial flaw of hen-peckedness and love-sickness endemic to men. .

Nope.
That suggests that you think both Adam and Eve were created with flaws; that when God saw that what he had made was very good, Genesis 1:31, he actually meant, 'as good as it can be given the design flaws.'
Not all men are hen pecked; not by any means.

Adam felt getting a woman is what makes life worth living.

No - GOD said, "it is not good for man to be alone".

So when his feminist wife in her attempt to become God ate the fruit the snake told her would make her the Boss of All, and as a result she was going to die, because the fruit was poison, Adam decided to eat the fruit with her (actually obeying her command, for she spoke to him as if she were God, telling him to eat it, commanding him),

Complete fabrication - talk about reading into the text.

and yet he ate it anyway, to die with his wife, because he couldn't conceive of life without a woman.

That's why he tried to blame her, I suppose, instead of admitting his sin and taking his punishment like a man?
The point is that Adam took the fruit, which he saw was good, and ate it. He was not forced to or commanded to. He had heard God's voice for himself, commanding him not to eat; yet he chose to.

The story is about how Eve made Adam the first male feminist.

And it means that feminism is the original sin of humanity.

Nope.