Welsh Revival (1904-05)

Aussie Pete

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In 1906 a joyous,Christian Revival broke out in the beautiful country of Wales,UK. What do you know about that Revival? What caused it? What were the results?
The revival was amazing. It started two or three years earlier than 1906. Some Christians were grieved by the apparent low spiritual level of the church generally. In various places in Wales, they started to get together and pray for revival. A lot of people think that the Azusa Street revival was the restoration of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It was at the heart of the Welsh revival before Azusa Street.

A young miner, Evan Roberts, was one of the most influential preachers. He spent hours in prayer, worked in the mine and then preached when he'd finished. So many were saved that pubs were closing down because people quit drinking.

A lot of clergy became revitalised. Not a few realised that they were not in fact born again and were saved for the first time. One of the great things was that denominational differences became background issues.

There were some problems, as with Azusa Street. Jesse Penn-Lewis was a Christian journalist who observed the revival in great detail. She wrote "War on the Saints" as a result of her observations. I highly recommend her book to anyone who wants to avoid the traps that Satan sets for the unwary.
 
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quietbloke

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The revival was amazing. It started two or three years earlier than 1906. Some Christians were grieved by the apparent low spiritual level of the church generally. In various places in Wales, they started to get together and pray for revival. A lot of people think that the Azusa Street revival was the restoration of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It was at the heart of the Welsh revival before Azusa Street.

A young miner, Evan Roberts, was one of the most influential preachers. He spent hours in prayer, worked in the mine and then preached when he'd finished. So many were saved that pubs were closing down because people quit drinking.

A lot of clergy became revitalised. Not a few realised that they were not in fact born again and were saved for the first time. One of the great things was that denominational differences became background issues.

There were some problems, as with Azusa Street. Jesse Penn-Lewis was a Christian journalist who observed the revival in great detail. She wrote "War on the Saints" as a result of her observations. I highly recommend her book to anyone who wants to avoid the traps that Satan sets for the unwary.
Thankyou for this helpful reply,'Aussie Pete'. I will look out for that book
 
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musicalpilgrim

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quietbloke

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The Welsh Revival was a Sovereign move of God born in prayer.many had been praying for years for a revival in this land. When the revival came people were talking about it everywhere. Thousands were converted to Christ. There was a new spirit of worship and prayer. Crime rates went down and church attendance went up!
 
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quietbloke

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Prayer meetings were fervent times of prayer and praise,testimonies and exhortations from the Word of God. Singing and joy,but also confession and repentance as people got right with God. The Holy Spirit guided these meetings and open air and personal witness proclaimed the gospel all around. Other countries were impacted as people went with the gospel
 
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quietbloke

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I have Shaw's The Great Revival in Wales. I need to get back to reading it.
Hi,'Little Lantern'. So good to read and study and pray and serve. God bless!
 
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bmjackson

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Unfortunately, Pentecostalists claim that the Welsh revivals, and other revivals since their beginnings in Azusa, are of the same sort, but they are not. They will use materials from that period, and add their bits in, to make it seem as though their preaching is the same, but it is not. What they fail to report, is that many in the previous Holiness Movement, Wesley himself, and Roberts and Penn-Lewis separated themselves from the Pentecostal teachings.

This is why I strongly recommend getting hold of the unabridged edition of War on the Saints. In the abridged edition, a letter from a German pastor speaking about the 'strange' manifestations has been removed.

I can't say what else has been removed but I will look into it.
 
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bmjackson

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"LIGHT ON "ABNORMAL"EXPERIENCES(From The Overcomer of 1920)Extract from a book published in Germanyby Pastor Ernst Lohmann (Translated from the German)Just as in a caricature the outstanding features of the true picture areto be found, so that a likeness is unmistakable, so phenomena which we find in heathen systems, in theosophy so-called, or new Buddhism, in spiritism, etc., resemble to some extent the divine manifestations called forth by the working of the Holy Spiritupon the spirit of man.

They also produce revelations and prophecies, speaking and singing with tongues, healing and miracles. It is of importance that we should study this subject to find an answer to the question as to how these phenomena are brought about. It is self-evident that they are not manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The numerous and exact investigations which are being made in our day into the subject are giving us increasing insight into this dark realm. Powers and possibilities have been discovered in man, which until now have been totally unsuspected. They are designated "subliminal powers," and we speak of"subconsciousness."(J. Grasset "Le Psychisme Infrerieur," 1906, writes: "Psychical proceedings fall into two groups: (1) thoseof a higher order—conscious, volitional, free; (2) those of a lower class—unconscious, mechanical, involuntary." On this subject Dr. Naum Kotik says in "The Emanation of Psycho-physical Energy": "Under ordinary conditions in the activity of the brain, thesub-consciousness hardly makes itself felt, and for this reason we have no suspicion of its existence.

There are conditions of the psyche, however, such as somnambulism, in which the sub-consciousness comes to the front, takes over the complete control, and forces the super-consciousness back into the position in which it (viz., the sub-consciousness) rightfully belongs. The actions which attest the activity of the sub-consciousness independently of the super-consciousness are usually termed automatic.")What physical occurrences accompany these phenomena? The lower nerve-centers (the ganglionic system, or the "vegetative" nerves, as they are called), which have their chief seat in the region round the pitof the stomach, are excited to increased activity. At the same time the central region of the higher nervous system (the cerebral system), which in a normal state of affairs is the medium of conscious perception and action, becomes paralyzed.There is a reversal of the order of nature. The lower nerves take over the duty of the higher ones (a sort of compensation).

This state of things comes to pass negatively by the higher organ losing its natural supremacy under pressure of illness, or artificially by hypnotism, auto-suggestion, etc.; and positively by the lower nerves being in some way excited artificially to increased activity, whereby they get the upper hand. These nerves then display abilities which our ordinary organs of sense do not possess; they receive impressions from a realm usually closed to us, such as clairvoyance, presentiments, prophecy, speaking with tongues, etc.The Mohammedan soothsayer Dschalal-Ed-Dinrumi describes the trance-state as follows: "My eyes are closed and my heart is at the open gate." Anna Katharina Emmerich (1774-1824): "I see the light, not with my eyes, but it is as though I saw it with my heart (with the nerves which have their seat in the pit of the stomach) . . . that which is actually around me I see dimly with my eyes like one dozing and beginning to dream;my second sight is drawing me forcibly, and is clearer than my natural sight, but it does not take place through my eyes. . . ."

When in a state of somnambulism, the inner sense, heightened in its activity, perceives outward things as clearly and moresothan when awake, when it recognizes tangible objects with eyes tightly closed and absolutely unable to see, just as well as by sight; this takes place, according to the unanimous declaration of all somnambulists, through the pit of the stomach, ie., through the nerves, which have their seat in this region. . . . And it is from this part that the nerves are set in action which move the organs of speech (in speaking with tongues, etc.)....Numberless cases of false mysticism through all the centuries of Church history display the same characteristics, the subconsciousness being always the medium of such perception and functions. They are morbid, coming under the garb of divine manifestations to lead souls astray. Now, it is very significant that according to the assertions of the leaders, it is an activity of the subconsciousness that we meet with in the "Pentecostal Movement" (so-called).

We read in a report of an "International Pentecostal Conference":"On Tuesday, a pastor introduced the discussion.The main topic was the working of the subconscious mind in messages and prophecy.Much confusion prevailed concerning the relation of our consciousness to our War on the Saints 76subconsciousness. The scriptural discrimination was preferable (1 Cor. 14:14-15), where they were spoken of as 'understanding' and 'spirit.’"When Christ lives in us He lives in our hearts, and in the heart are two chambers. In one room lives the conscience, and through the conscience I can know that Christ lives in me. In the other room of myheart there is the subconsciousness, and there also Christ lives. We look at 1 Corinthians 14:14, 'For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth,but my understanding is unfruitful.'"Notice the expression "my spirit" (my subconscious mind), and also the expression "my understanding," ie., "When my spirit prays in tongues, my subconscious mind prays"!

In the Declaration of the Second Mulheim "Pentecostal Conference," September 15th, 1909, we read:"In 1 Corinthians 14:14 (Luther's translation) Paul makesa distinction between the understanding and the spirit of man.By the word 'understanding’he means the conscious, and by the word 'spirit' the unconscious spiritual life, life of man. In this unconscious spiritual life—in modern language also termed 'subconsciousness'—God has placed the gift of speaking with tongues and prophecy. . . ."According to this, the spiritual life of the believer is synonymous with the subconsciousness of the somnambulist. And the more highly developed this subconsciousness is in any individual, the more highly developed would be their spiritual life.Just try substituting the word "subconsciousness" in those passages where the Scripture speaks of the spirit of man; for example, Psalm 51:17, Psalm 77:6, Isaiah 66:2, Acts 7:59, Acts 18:5, Acts 20:22, Romans 1:9, Romans 2:29, Romans 8:16, 1 Corinthians 2:11, 1 Corinthians 4:21, 1 Corinthians 5:5, Galatians 6:1, Galatians 6:18, Ephesians 4:23, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

Those in whom the subconsciousness becomes active in the manner described above, feel as it were an electric stream passing through the body, which is an exciting of the nerves, which have their central seat in the pit of the stomach. It is from thence that the jaws are moved in speaking with tongues.One of the leaders of the "Pentecostal Movement," in describing the process of this so-called Baptism of the Spirit in his body, made use of the singular comparison that it seemed to him as though there were in his body an inverted bottle. The simile was incomprehensible to me, but this way of expressing it was most strikingly illuminated when I find an almost identical expression used by a Mohammedan soothsayer. Tewekkul Beg, a pupil of Mollah Schah, was receivinginstruction from his master as to how he could get into the ecstatic state. He says: "After he had bound my eyes ... I saw something in my inner being resembling a fallen tumbler. . . .When this object was placed upright a feeling of limitless bliss filled my being."This feeling of bliss is another characteristic feature of this class of occurrences. By exciting the lower nervous system a feeling of intense rapture is regularly produced. ... At first we find connected with it, usually, involuntary contraction of the muscles and movement of the limbs, in consequence of the unnatural inversion of the nervous system.Pastor Paul again says:"If anyone is to prophesy in the way I have now learned, God must be able to move the mouth of the one prophesying, as He formerly moved the mouth of Balaam's ass.The ass understood nothing of the words which she spoke, she only said what she was to say.There is a danger in uttering things we understand.

It is so easy to mix in one's own thoughts, and then to utter what one thinks. This occurs without our intending it in the least. That is the reason why God trains His prophets in so preparing them that they utter exactly what the Spirit gives them. Speaking in strange tongues is a good preliminary school."There one learns to speak as the mouth is moved. One speaks without knowing what one is saying by simply following the position of the mouth. Just so in prophecy; there, too, one speaks as led by the position of the mouth. Speaking with tongues and prophesying are both on the same principle."It is evident that in these phenomena we have the exact opposite of what the Scriptures understand by the communication of the Spirit. When the Spirit of God takes possession of the spirit of man, HE IS BROUGHT BACK TO A NORMAL CONDITION; the Spirit acquires the full authority given it by the Creator over the powers of the soul, and through the soul over the body. The conscious personal life is once more completely under the authority of the spirit. The dependency upon God, which man sought to break off in his mania for exalting himself by setting his reason, his emotions, or the flesh upon the throne, is restored again. The Spirit of God can exercise once more His controlling and quickening power. The deeds of the flesh are put to death by the Spirit, the powers and the gifts of the Spirit developed, the man becomes spiritual, full of the Holy Spirit" War on the Saints
 
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quietbloke

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Unfortunately, Pentecostalists claim that the Welsh revivals, and other revivals since their beginnings in Azusa, are of the same sort, but they are not. They will use materials from that period, and add their bits in, to make it seem as though their preaching is the same, but it is not. What they fail to report, is that many in the previous Holiness Movement, Wesley himself, and Roberts and Penn-Lewis separated themselves from the Pentecostal teachings.

This is why I strongly recommend getting hold of the unabridged edition of War on the Saints. In the abridged edition, a letter from a German pastor speaking about the 'strange' manifestations has been removed.

I can't say what else has been removed but I will look into it.
The Welsh Revival was a revival. The Azusa Street and Sunderland Outpouring were Outpourings of the Holy Spirit. It seems that you are against the Pentecostal experience. May I gently remind you that this is the Pentecostal/Assemblies of God forum.
 
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bmjackson

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The Welsh Revival was a revival. The Azusa Street and Sunderland Outpouring were Outpourings of the Holy Spirit. It seems that you are against the Pentecostal experience. May I gently remind you that I the Pentecostal/Assemblies of God forum.

So that chapter from War on the Saints, you would consider out of place on here as well?

Does this mean that there is no room for discussion here then, regarding some issues where I believe Pentecostalism is inconsistent, giving evidence and keeping the discussion civil? Is that discussion closed?

Would you say what the difference is between revival and outpouring thanks.
 
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rocknanchor

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I believe that we must have a personal Pentecost post conversion ie baptism of the Spirit with the fruit of holiness and gifts and therefore a discussion on revival is very relevant to me. Does that count?
You would be hard-pressed to cite contrary use in the scriptures for "personal" to that old ‘and they were all in one place’. But God is able and loves us individually and mankind collectively, so, I would have to say it could well count, otherwise there would be something within the text refusing those exiled or unjustly being outcast. The Eastern Orthodox I believe may have tried to coin the phrase Personal Pentecost.
 
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