I don't want revival

[ViaCrucis]

The title of this thread is intentionally provocative. But it's not untrue.

Most of my life I've heard "Revival is coming" and "what we need is revival".

The idea being that there's going to be something like what happened in the Anglosphere in the 18th and 19th centuries. The First Great Awakening of the 18th century affected both Britain and its colonies in America. The Second Great Awakening was more America-centric. Some have argued that the Charismatic movement of the mid-20th century was a kind of Third Great Awakening.

I won't get into here why I actually don't think those movements were necessarily the great spiritual boon that they are sometimes spoken of. Instead I do want to talk about the idea of revival itself and why I think what we should be praying for isn't revival, but something more.

Revival, generally, speaks about a religious fervor sweeping through a population, non-religious or nominally religious people becoming more religious generally. And I'm not against that obviously. The Lord said "make disciples of all nations", I think we need to be preaching the Gospel and seeing lives transformed by God's grace.

But I'll be honest. My present concerns are not with the fact that there are millions of people who are not yet Christian. It's the millions of Christians who don't know Christ.

I'm not talking about Christians who aren't really Christians, or who aren't saved. I mean there is a spiritual sickness in the Christian Church that is more concerned with what non-believers are doing rather than on how we are living as disciples of Jesus. The promotion of religion that is, at its core, without Jesus or the Gospel.

Have you ever attended a church or experienced a service that talked a lot about spiritual stuff, morality even, but the name of Jesus wasn't really mentioned. Or perhaps Jesus was mentioned, but no mention of His life, His death, or His resurrection. Perhaps there was a lot of teaching and preaching about what you should do or what you should want, but not based on any commandment of God, not based on what we actually read in Scripture. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

A sort of generic spirituality, a kind of moralistic pietism that talks about God, but if it wasn't for the fact that the preacher said they were a Christian minister, you wouldn't really know that it was a specifically Christian service.

A service that maybe didn't concern itself much with, say, repentance of sin, or forgiveness of sin by God's grace. Or the commandment that we should love other people. But, instead, was about how you can be a better person, or have better success in your job, relationship, or finances if you live a more moral life. Or perhaps it focused on just how bad all those people over there are, but not really any focus on the sin right here in you and me.

Anyone else notice these things? I have. I've noticed them for a really long time. Other people over there are sinners, but we're the righteous. I don't need the Gospel, I already am a Christian. I don't need to be reminded of the fact that I have to take up my cross and follow Jesus, that applies to the pagans, the homosexuals, the atheists, etc. Not me. I'm a Christian. I'm saved.

That's what I'm talking about.

A lot of the "revival" talk I hear tends to be focused on "all those people over there coming to Jesus", and the implication is that our society/culture is going to become a more moral one, however we define that "morality".

But what about you and me, taking up our cross, getting uncomfortable by associating with the people forgotten and unloved. Or you and me being reminded that we're the sinners that need to confess our sins, we're the sinners that need to take up our cross and follow Jesus. That Jesus died for us.

There's a lot of things "revival" is supposed to bring. But what I fail to hear about when I hear about "revival" is the Cross.

Where is Jesus Christ in all this talk of revival?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Mclachlan]

I like these thoughts. Day by day revival of the heart at the cross of Christ is true revival.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

The title of this thread is intentionally provocative. But it's not untrue.

Most of my life I've heard "Revival is coming" and "what we need is revival".

The idea being that there's going to be something like what happened in the Anglosphere in the 18th and 19th centuries. The First Great Awakening of the 18th century affected both Britain and its colonies in America. The Second Great Awakening was more America-centric. Some have argued that the Charismatic movement of the mid-20th century was a kind of Third Great Awakening.

I won't get into here why I actually don't think those movements were necessarily the great spiritual boon that they are sometimes spoken of. Instead I do want to talk about the idea of revival itself and why I think what we should be praying for isn't revival, but something more.

Revival, generally, speaks about a religious fervor sweeping through a population, non-religious or nominally religious people becoming more religious generally. And I'm not against that obviously. The Lord said "make disciples of all nations", I think we need to be preaching the Gospel and seeing lives transformed by God's grace.

But I'll be honest. My present concerns are not with the fact that there are millions of people who are not yet Christian. It's the millions of Christians who don't know Christ.

I'm not talking about Christians who aren't really Christians, or who aren't saved. I mean there is a spiritual sickness in the Christian Church that is more concerned with what non-believers are doing rather than on how we are living as disciples of Jesus. The promotion of religion that is, at its core, without Jesus or the Gospel.

Have you ever attended a church or experienced a service that talked a lot about spiritual stuff, morality even, but the name of Jesus wasn't really mentioned. Or perhaps Jesus was mentioned, but no mention of His life, His death, or His resurrection. Perhaps there was a lot of teaching and preaching about what you should do or what you should want, but not based on any commandment of God, not based on what we actually read in Scripture. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

A sort of generic spirituality, a kind of moralistic pietism that talks about God, but if it wasn't for the fact that the preacher said they were a Christian minister, you wouldn't really know that it was a specifically Christian service.

A service that maybe didn't concern itself much with, say, repentance of sin, or forgiveness of sin by God's grace. Or the commandment that we should love other people. But, instead, was about how you can be a better person, or have better success in your job, relationship, or finances if you live a more moral life. Or perhaps it focused on just how bad all those people over there are, but not really any focus on the sin right here in you and me.

Anyone else notice these things? I have. I've noticed them for a really long time. Other people over there are sinners, but we're the righteous. I don't need the Gospel, I already am a Christian. I don't need to be reminded of the fact that I have to take up my cross and follow Jesus, that applies to the pagans, the homosexuals, the atheists, etc. Not me. I'm a Christian. I'm saved.

That's what I'm talking about.

A lot of the "revival" talk I hear tends to be focused on "all those people over there coming to Jesus", and the implication is that our society/culture is going to become a more moral one, however we define that "morality".

But what about you and me, taking up our cross, getting uncomfortable by associating with the people forgotten and unloved. Or you and me being reminded that we're the sinners that need to confess our sins, we're the sinners that need to take up our cross and follow Jesus. That Jesus died for us.

There's a lot of things "revival" is supposed to bring. But what I fail to hear about when I hear about "revival" is the Cross.

Where is Jesus Christ in all this talk of revival?

-CryptoLutheran

There is alot of bad things happening in our world today so it's always easy for those who sit in the pews to point out those people who participate in those bad things. I confess I've participated in the pointing myself. When I catch myself doing it too much, I stop and for days I'll dwell on this prayer:

"The publican stood by himself, bowed his head, and prayed, “God be merciful to me a sinner.” The Pharisee thought he was perfect and did not need God's help. But the publican knew that he was not perfect and needed God's help. He was humble and asked God to forgive him."

In the Orthodox Faith and Eastern Rite Catholicism (and possibly some Protestant Denominations), the prayer is extended (I'm not sure of the history of the extended version) like this:

O God be merciful to me a sinner
O God cleanse me of my sins and have mercy on me
O Lord forgive me for I have sinned without number

This prayer (and a few others) brings me back to Earth and help me realize that as long as I'm a sinner (and that will be all my life), I am no better or worse than everyone else in this world. We want everyone to go to Heaven. God Bless You

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This is awesome! And spans across denominations. I believe part of the problem is people are taught easy believism. They are not taught about sacrifice or how blessed it is to give than receive. It's all about me. I used to be on a prayer team and the number of times people would ask prayer for selfish desires, things that clearly had no bearing on their or anyone else's spirituality is heart breaking. People come to Christ for what He can give them or do for them, not for what He can do through them for others. You see this especially manifest in politics, churches taking political stances and sides, endorsing political candidates and even suggesting that all is lost unless their political idol wins an election. Forgetting that God is above all and orchestrates all for His purpose. Love these words and I agree

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The title of this thread is intentionally provocative. But it's not untrue.

Most of my life I've heard "Revival is coming" and "what we need is revival".

The idea being that there's going to be something like what happened in the Anglosphere in the 18th and 19th centuries. The First Great Awakening of the 18th century affected both Britain and its colonies in America. The Second Great Awakening was more America-centric. Some have argued that the Charismatic movement of the mid-20th century was a kind of Third Great Awakening.

I won't get into here why I actually don't think those movements were necessarily the great spiritual boon that they are sometimes spoken of. Instead I do want to talk about the idea of revival itself and why I think what we should be praying for isn't revival, but something more.

Revival, generally, speaks about a religious fervor sweeping through a population, non-religious or nominally religious people becoming more religious generally. And I'm not against that obviously. The Lord said "make disciples of all nations", I think we need to be preaching the Gospel and seeing lives transformed by God's grace.

But I'll be honest. My present concerns are not with the fact that there are millions of people who are not yet Christian. It's the millions of Christians who don't know Christ.

I'm not talking about Christians who aren't really Christians, or who aren't saved. I mean there is a spiritual sickness in the Christian Church that is more concerned with what non-believers are doing rather than on how we are living as disciples of Jesus. The promotion of religion that is, at its core, without Jesus or the Gospel.

Have you ever attended a church or experienced a service that talked a lot about spiritual stuff, morality even, but the name of Jesus wasn't really mentioned. Or perhaps Jesus was mentioned, but no mention of His life, His death, or His resurrection. Perhaps there was a lot of teaching and preaching about what you should do or what you should want, but not based on any commandment of God, not based on what we actually read in Scripture. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

A sort of generic spirituality, a kind of moralistic pietism that talks about God, but if it wasn't for the fact that the preacher said they were a Christian minister, you wouldn't really know that it was a specifically Christian service.

A service that maybe didn't concern itself much with, say, repentance of sin, or forgiveness of sin by God's grace. Or the commandment that we should love other people. But, instead, was about how you can be a better person, or have better success in your job, relationship, or finances if you live a more moral life. Or perhaps it focused on just how bad all those people over there are, but not really any focus on the sin right here in you and me.

Anyone else notice these things? I have. I've noticed them for a really long time. Other people over there are sinners, but we're the righteous. I don't need the Gospel, I already am a Christian. I don't need to be reminded of the fact that I have to take up my cross and follow Jesus, that applies to the pagans, the homosexuals, the atheists, etc. Not me. I'm a Christian. I'm saved.

That's what I'm talking about.

A lot of the "revival" talk I hear tends to be focused on "all those people over there coming to Jesus", and the implication is that our society/culture is going to become a more moral one, however we define that "morality".

But what about you and me, taking up our cross, getting uncomfortable by associating with the people forgotten and unloved. Or you and me being reminded that we're the sinners that need to confess our sins, we're the sinners that need to take up our cross and follow Jesus. That Jesus died for us.

There's a lot of things "revival" is supposed to bring. But what I fail to hear about when I hear about "revival" is the Cross.

Where is Jesus Christ in all this talk of revival?

-CryptoLutheran

I agree, before talking about converting those outside the church ... those attending need to experience the transformation of being born again, instead of being coddled with theology insisting they are saved by intellectual assents.

 

[Strong in Him]

The title of this thread is intentionally provocative. But it's not untrue.

Most of my life I've heard "Revival is coming" and "what we need is revival".

I don't want revival either; revival suggests giving a boost, or extra life, to something which is already there.
I want resurrection, and you can't have resurrection without death.

So let's have the death of religion: an end to man made rules, which are, supposedly, to promote order but which in fact promote division; meaningless tradition, buildings - with all the committees and groups needed to maintain them - and denominations.
Let's get rid of the hymn/prayer sandwich on Sundays, and relying on one person to tell us what the passage means, or what to think, have real discussions about how we have seen God working in our lives since we last met together and a real desire to pray for our communities.
Let's get rid of the idea that "our church is growing" because 4, 4 dozen or 400 new people have joined, when we have people sitting in the pews who don't know that God loves them to bits, it's possible to have a real relationship with Jesus and who think that "going to church" will get them spiritual brownie points. Let's have an end to people pulling the sermon apart over Sunday lunch (a feature in my family) and have people who are fired up and challenged to know God, and the Bible, better and put their faith into action. Let's have an end to situations where people can quote the rules or minutes of the meeting, but have very little Bible knowledge.

May God raise up people who are so passionate about the Gospel, and so full of God's love, that it flows out of them, bringing lifegiving water to others.

 

[FireDragon76]

As Bonhoeffer put it, pietism is "the last gasp of religion".

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have struggled with this. In my heart, I do pray for the lost masses. But when I read all the horrible things that are being normalized in our nation, I wonder if we should delay judgment any longer. I believe God has given the US decades to turn from sin, and all we have done is use the time to pile up sins and abominations even deeper and wider. If we delay longer, it will just get worse.