Weird theory of the Mark

[Ripheus27]

So there's debate over whether the Mark corresponds to "616" or "666." Now technically, my idea can be fit to either possibility.

So, the idea is, first, that the Antichrist will not be Jewish per se---there are too many different kinds of Judaism for that to be true as such, I think---but will represent a heretical offshoot. That is, he will not be thought of as Jewish by most Jews, but he will style himself so nevertheless, and "base" his false religion on his style.

Now I think there's something about the Antichrist changing the times and the laws or whatever, in our scripture, but I don't remember clearly. Let's say there is some kind of saying like that. It occurred to me today that the Mosaic Law equals 613 rules, or precepts, or something along that line. So, my idea is that the Antichrist will add at least 3 rules to the Mosaic Law, so that there are 616 rules in his system. (Or +56, though that might be less likely---I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity, but +56 would be harder to account for.) Now most Jews, and all true Christians on Earth at the time, will manifestly refuse to follow the extra rules, Jews because the extras are heretical and Christians because they don't submit in the same way to the Mosaic Law at all.

Incidentally, there is a religious movement that believes in enforcing the Mosaic Law, more or less, with some "Christian" additions. Namely the Christian Reconstructionist movement. I think it's very interesting that Christian Reconstructionism is very oppressive in bent, whereas Jewish Reconstructionism is not. But how this might map to the Mark of the Beast, I'm not sure yet...

 

[DaDad]

... the Antichrist will not be Jewish per se ...

Apparently some guy took a "Hillary pink $3 bill" to McDonalds. The gal behind the counter took the "money" and gave change.

Personally, I think a $20 bill should be "green", have "President Jackson" on the front, and a certain set of other markings for me to accept it. But if you're fine with a pink $3 Hillary bill, then I'm with you.

Ummmmmm, could you possibly sell me your car for MONOPOLY® money, -- and also your wife's? I'll pay you DOUBLE Blue Book® value.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Ripheus27]

I must be too tired to get the joke. As far as what it's a response to, there's a tradition in eschatology that suspects the Antichrist would come from a Jewish cultural background, or some such thing. I find that an unseemly proposition on its face, though, and doubt things will turn out quite so.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I must be too tired to get the joke. As far as what it's a response to, there's a tradition in eschatology that suspects the Antichrist would come from a Jewish cultural background, or some such thing. I find that an unseemly proposition on its face, though, and doubt things will turn out quite so.

Perhaps you should look up the word antichrist and learn what john saysabout an antichrist before forming an opinion.

 

[KingdomLeast]

So, the idea is, first, that the Antichrist will not be Jewish per se---there are too many different kinds of Judaism for that to be true as such, I think---but will represent a heretical offshoot. That is, he will not be thought of as Jewish by most Jews, but he will style himself so nevertheless, and "base" his false religion on his style.

I never understood this thought that the antichrist is to be Jewish

So, my idea is that the Antichrist will add at least 3 rules to the Mosaic Law, so that there are 616 rules in his system. (Or +56, though that might be less likely---I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity, but +56 would be harder to account for.)

Are you saying that the doctrine of the Trinity is heretical? I ask because there are some who believe that the Trinity doctrine is the Mark of the beast.

Now most Jews, and all true Christians on Earth at the time, will manifestly refuse to follow the extra rules, Jews because the extras are heretical and Christians because they don't submit in the same way to the Mosaic Law at all.

Incidentally, there is a religious movement that believes in enforcing the Mosaic Law, more or less, with some "Christian" additions. Namely the Christian Reconstructionist movement. I think it's very interesting that Christian Reconstructionism is very oppressive in bent, whereas Jewish Reconstructionism is not. But how this might map to the Mark of the Beast, I'm not sure yet...

There are Sabbath Keeping Christians who believe that the Mark of the beast is the keeping of Sunday as a Holy Day, changed by the Papacy from Saturday

 

[DavidPT]

Are you saying that the doctrine of the Trinity is heretical? I ask because there are some who believe that the Trinity doctrine is the Mark of the beast.

The poster did say----"I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity"----rather than---"I can see the +3 as versions of warped Christian doctrines like the Trinity"

So I'm thinking, though I could be wrong of course, the poster likely isn't attacking the trinity doctrines.

 

[KingdomLeast]

The poster did say----"I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity"----rather than---"I can see the +3 as versions of warped Christian doctrines like the Trinity"

So I'm thinking, though I could be wrong of course, the poster likely isn't attacking the trinity doctrines.

That's why I'm asking David, just would like some clarification

 

[DavidPT]

That's why I'm asking David, just would like some clarification

I'm sure the poster will clarify. In the meantime I was providing my opinion on what I felt the poster was likely implying or not implying, IOW my interpretation.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If the beast appeared after 2000 years and called himself israel,would you believe him?
Would you follow him into his kingdom?
Would you take his mark tobe used for buying and selling?

Israel Eyes Becoming a Cashless Society

 

[TribulationSigns]

You people...sigh!

 

[Douggg]

I must be too tired to get the joke. As far as what it's a response to, there's a tradition in eschatology that suspects the Antichrist would come from a Jewish cultural background, or some such thing. I find that an unseemly proposition on its face, though, and doubt things will turn out quite so.

I will give you a decent discussion.

I am almost 70 and have studied about the Antichrist for 47 years. Here is some knowledge that is critical - things which I didn't start out with, but were a long time in coming.

First, a change for you. You have to separate in your thinking about the person from being the Antichrist as different as being the King of the Roman Empire. Being the Antichrist is only for the duration he is the King of Israel (anointed as by the false prophet) for a short time.

At other times, when he is the little horn and the beast, he is the King of the Roman Empire (in the end times). Different roles and functions from being the Antichrist.

Functionally, it is wrong to refer to the person in Revelation 13 as the Antichrist - because he will no longer be in the role as the King of Israel (illegitimate) at that time. So try to practice calling the person by the right label - for the appropriate time on the 7 year timeline - because it is critical.

The 666, the mark, and his name (the beast's) are the three options that people will be required to take to buy and sell in the beast system.

It is actually the mark of his name (Revelation 14:11), not just mark. The 666, the mark, and his name - all have to do with his name . Critical to be aware of. No, I don't not know the person's name.

So it has nothing to do with the 613 mitzvots. btw, I have made over 4000 posts at the Jewish sites arguing with them and learning about Judaism, over a ten year period.

About the person:
Antichrist - King of Israel (illegitimate) for a short period of time. A Jew, must be.
The little horn, beast - King of the Roman Empire end times. A descendant of the Julio-Claudians.

Most of Revelation focuses on the person as the King of the Roman Empire end times. The 666 requirement is the second half of the 7 years.

 

[shilohsfoal]

So there's debate over whether the Mark corresponds to "616" or "666." Now technically, my idea can be fit to either possibility.

So, the idea is, first, that the Antichrist will not be Jewish per se---there are too many different kinds of Judaism for that to be true as such, I think---but will represent a heretical offshoot. That is, he will not be thought of as Jewish by most Jews, but he will style himself so nevertheless, and "base" his false religion on his style.

Now I think there's something about the Antichrist changing the times and the laws or whatever, in our scripture, but I don't remember clearly. Let's say there is some kind of saying like that. It occurred to me today that the Mosaic Law equals 613 rules, or precepts, or something along that line. So, my idea is that the Antichrist will add at least 3 rules to the Mosaic Law, so that there are 616 rules in his system. (Or +56, though that might be less likely---I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity, but +56 would be harder to account for.) Now most Jews, and all true Christians on Earth at the time, will manifestly refuse to follow the extra rules, Jews because the extras are heretical and Christians because they don't submit in the same way to the Mosaic Law at all.

Incidentally, there is a religious movement that believes in enforcing the Mosaic Law, more or less, with some "Christian" additions. Namely the Christian Reconstructionist movement. I think it's very interesting that Christian Reconstructionism is very oppressive in bent, whereas Jewish Reconstructionism is not. But how this might map to the Mark of the Beast, I'm not sure yet...

So youve heard he will change laws and times.Here is the verse youve heard of.

Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the set times and laws, and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.

Keep in mind,this is not a worldwide event.This was to take place in the beautiful land.

Daniel 8:9 From one of these horns a little horn emerged and grew extensively toward the south and the east and toward the Beautiful Land.

 

[Douggg]

I never understood this thought that the antichrist is to be Jewish

The concept of "the" christ has to do with being a promised great King of Israel to lead the Jews and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

The Jews at Jesus's time were expecting that when his followers thought Jesus was the messiah. And thought he would be crowned the King of Israel and overthrow the Romans.

Messiah means anointed - and broadly applied to the Kings and priests - as a way of saying chosen by God to fill that function. The messiah is the one special anointed.

The person has to be descended from King David - a Jew - to become the promise messiah. That's why the Antichrist has to be a Jew - because he will be an another that
the Jews will embrace for awhile as the messiah and actually anointed the King of Israel.

"Anti" is a prefix meaning "instead of" and "against". Anti-christ implies Anti - Jesus Christ - as Jesus is the rightful king of Israel.

A couple of passages referring to Jesus as the King of Israel... learn these passages for future reference.

John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mark 15:32
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
___________________________________________________________________

The Antichrist will have to be a Jew for the Jews to embrace him as the promised great King of Israel. Perhaps the biggest mistake of all time by the Jews - because it will end in disaster, when the person betrays them. But because of God's grace and mercy, they will recover by turning to Jesus.

 

[DaDad]

Wow, such "information". I wonder what an "alien" (from outer space) would think when a Bible is so simple, but people's "theologies" are so muddled.

"Yep, conquering Earth will be the easiest thing we'll ever do ..."

DaDad


-- My purchase offer still stands !

 

[Ripheus27]

The poster did say----"I can see the +3 as warped versions of Christian doctrines like the Trinity"----rather than---"I can see the +3 as versions of warped Christian doctrines like the Trinity"

So I'm thinking, though I could be wrong of course, the poster likely isn't attacking the trinity doctrines.

Correct. I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity very strongly, but because it is not the most perfectly clear idea in the history of the world, I think it could be manipulated and presented in a corrupt way. Moreover, demons have a propensity to corrupt images of the good, so it would be typical of them to take something utterly holy and make of it a symbol of their evil.

Perhaps you should look up the word antichrist and learn what john saysabout an antichrist before forming an opinion.

I already know that passage. I'm not a sola scriptura kind of guy so the fact that the phrase "the Antichrist" has come to be used of the Beast (one of the beasts, from the sea?) is enough of a tradition for me to feel comfortable with referring to the Beast of the Mark as the Antichrist.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Correct. I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity very strongly, but because it is not the most perfectly clear idea in the history of the world, I think it could be manipulated and presented in a corrupt way. Moreover, demons have a propensity to corrupt images of the good, so it would be typical of them to take something utterly holy and make of it a symbol of their evil.



I already know that passage. I'm not a sola scriptura kind of guy so the fact that the phrase "the Antichrist" has come to be used of the Beast (one of the beasts, from the sea?) is enough of a tradition for me to feel comfortable with referring to the Beast of the Mark as the Antichrist.

Your familiar with that passage?
There are four passages refering to antichrist.Which one are you refering to?

 

[Ripheus27]

Well forgive me, I was assuming you were talking about, "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." I know there are also

• "Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son."
• "This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time."
  
• "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

And there's a whole debate over whether the Beast from the Sea is the same being indicated when "antichrist" is (presumably) capitalized, or whether the Antichrist is the False Prophet (which after all is also characterized as a beast). Then there's also the question of the Man of Sin and the Son of Perdition, and probably other phrases/titles I'm not recalling at this moment.

But as far as I am concerned, it is fine to refer to the Beast from the Sea as the Antichrist not because this is scripturally necessary (or even possible), but because both designations are interchangeable in popular culture and nothing hangs on whether popular culture is using these phrases with absolute fidelity to the text.

That's why the Antichrist has to be a Jew - because he will be an another that the Jews will embrace for awhile as the messiah and actually anointed the King of Israel.

"Anti" is a prefix meaning "instead of" and "against". Anti-christ implies Anti - Jesus Christ - as Jesus is the rightful king of Israel.

I always understood the word as suggesting that just as Jesus (in His human nature) was the ultimate champion of God, the Antichrist would be the ultimate champion of the Dragon. That the Antichrist would play a role akin to that of Jesus (in the public eye) in the past, but with identifiable perversions. Nothing specifically Jewish about that, I suspect.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well forgive me, I was assuming you were talking about, "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." I know there are also

• "Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son."
• "This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and is already in the world at this time."
  
• "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

And there's a whole debate over whether the Beast from the Sea is the same being indicated when "antichrist" is (presumably) capitalized, or whether the Antichrist is the False Prophet (which after all is also characterized as a beast). Then there's also the question of the Man of Sin and the Son of Perdition, and probably other phrases/titles I'm not recalling at this moment.

But as far as I am concerned, it is fine to refer to the Beast from the Sea as the Antichrist not because this is scripturally necessary (or even possible), but because both designations are interchangeable in popular culture and nothing hangs on whether popular culture is using these phrases with absolute fidelity to the text.

Without getting into the beast or the son of pedition,lets just look at what john said an antichrist says.

How many people do you know that claims the messiah(Christ)hasnt come?

What religion teaches the Messiah(Christ)hasnt come?

 

[Ripheus27]

Without getting into the beast or the son of pedition,lets just look at what john said an antichrist says.

How many people do you know that claims the messiah(Christ)hasnt come?

What religion teaches the Messiah(Christ)hasnt come?

That's fine but I'm not talking about how epistle-John used the word "Antichrist." So just reread my entire OP with the phrase "Beast from the Sea" in place of "Antichrist" and you will understand what I'm trying to say (hopefully).

 

[shilohsfoal]

That's fine but I'm not talking about how epistle-John used the word "Antichrist." So just reread my entire OP with the phrase "Beast from the Sea" in place of "Antichrist" and you will understand what I'm trying to say (hopefully).

Well,after you figure out who the beast from the sea is,you will note the majority of the people of that kingdom deny Christ.
Not all,but most.