Weight vs Faith

[AV1611VET]

Still no.

Fair enough.

If I'm going to be wrong either way, I'll stick with my original OP until something better comes along --

 

[Freodin]

Fair enough.

If I'm going to be wrong either way, I'll stick with my original OP until something better comes along --

Well... you could try to get it right. Seems to be a little better than chosing between errors.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well... you could try to get it right. Seems to be a little better than chosing between errors.

Well I could have just said: Faith occurs when science is resisted, but considering the thread title, I felt obligated to precede it with something sciency.

I figured you guys would be all over me for the science and overlook the main point; but after almost six years, I really don't expect too much from you guys in the way of spiritual comprehension.

No offense --

I'll be glad to look like a clown in the science department anytime.

 

[Jazer]

No clue what "elimination of space" is on about, but reduction in mass corresponds to a proportionate reduction in weight.

Ok sorry for the confusion. I was referring to Brian Greene's Theory on the Shrinking Universe. Should be something on the internet about it if you want to look it up. He presented the theory on the Nova Elegant Universe Program that is currently airing on PBS. From Greene's book on that subject.

 

[Jazer]

I really don't expect too much from you guys in the way of spiritual comprehension.

This double standard of theirs has gone way to far. They expect us to know more about science then what they are willing to learn. Yet they know nothing about the Bible. They want to put five or ten min work into having a discussion with people who have studied the subject for 20 years or more. About the best you can get them to do is to go to a atheist web site to get some lies and bring them back here to try and pass them off as the truth. All the time complaining that we do not know enough scientific truth. Yet they are the ones that butcher the truth be it Religion or Science. Bottom line they are so spoiled with being fed with a silver spoon that they are outright lazy. My son just came home, he had to run a mile and walk a mile and he is tired. Talk about being out of shape. I should throw his computer in the trash, I just do not see what good it does for him to spend so much time playing games on the computer to were he does not get the exercise that he needs to get.

 

[Belk]

Well I could have just said: Faith occurs when science is resisted, but considering the thread title, I felt obligated to precede it with something sciency.

I figured you guys would be all over me for the science and overlook the main point; but after almost six years, I really don't expect too much from you guys in the way of spiritual comprehension.

No offense --

I'll be glad to look like a clown in the science department anytime.

So, per your definition, faith is not possible without science?

 

[Jazer]

Isn't weight the mass of an object * the acceleration due to gravity?

According to Einstein if I understand this, we can not travel faster than the speed of light because as a object nears planck velocity it's mass becomes larger, so there is not enough power in the universe to push it past the light barrier. Or at least not very much past that barrier.

 

[Jazer]

So, per your definition, faith is not possible without science?

There is man's faith. They often call that positive thinking. Then there is God's Divine Faith. Faith that comes from God is a work of God in us and through us. Faith can be a fruit of the Spirit and a Gift of the Spirit. You have to be plugged into God. When your plugged in than the Power of God can flow in and though us. God can give us faith, hope, love and so much more.

 

[AV1611VET]

This double standard of theirs has gone way to far. They expect us to know more about science then what they are willing to learn. Yet they know nothing about the Bible. They want to put five or ten min work into having a discussion with people who have studied the subject for 20 years or more. About the best you can get them to do is to go to a atheist web site to get some lies and bring them back here to try and pass them off as the truth. All the time complaining that we do not know enough scientific truth. Yet they are the ones that butcher the truth be it Religion or Science. Bottom line they are so spoiled with being fed with a silver spoon that they are outright lazy. My son just came home, he had to run a mile and walk a mile and he is tired. Talk about being out of shape. I should throw his computer in the trash, I just do not see what good it does for him to spend so much time playing games on the computer to were he does not get the exercise that he needs to get.

Psst -- let me clue you in on something, bro.

These guys are what I call 'Internet scientists.'

In my opinion, they are here to vent, ridicule and rail against God and His children -- probably for some bad experience they had earlier in life.

I could be wrong though; and there may be exceptions, but I doubt it.

 

[Jazer]

In my opinion, they are here to vent, ridicule and rail against God and His children -- probably for some bad experience they had earlier in life.

Then it is fair, I am here for just the opposite reason. No one told me anything at all about religion. Instead I had science forced on me as the way to think and the cure/solution for everything. Then when I ask questions science and can not answer or have problem science can not solve they tell me I am to blame and it is all my fault. So they want to vent, ridicule and rail. Well so do I, against Science and all the harm and damage Science does to people.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Then it is fair, I am here for just the opposite reason. No one told me anything at all about religion. Instead I had science forced on me as the way to think and the cure/solution for everything. Then when I ask questions science and can not answer or have problem science can not solve they tell me I am to blame and it is all my fault. So they want to vent, ridicule and rail. Well so do I, against Science and all the harm and damage Science does to people.

Sounds as if you need to stop being an internet christian, log out, and get some counseling.

 

[Belk]

There is man's faith. They often call that positive thinking. Then there is God's Divine Faith. Faith that comes from God is a work of God in us and through us. Faith can be a fruit of the Spirit and a Gift of the Spirit. You have to be plugged into God. When your plugged in than the Power of God can flow in and though us. God can give us faith, hope, love and so much more.

That's nice. Can you or AV answer my question? So, per your definition, faith is not possible without science?

 

[Loudmouth]

Loudmouth: What are you saying?

Let's go back to your original statement:

"One who claims to need no faith in anything must claim to know everything."

You seem to be implying that if you have no faith then you must know everything. Assuming that this was the intent, there is something that you have failed to understand.

Faith is believing something even if you have no evidence that supports that belief. If you remove faith and still lack evidence then you simply lack a belief. In this case, you just wouldn't know one way or the other.

Think of it in terms of a crime scene. The police show up at a murder scene but are unable to find any fingerprints, DNA, or forensic evidence of any kind. They could go on faith and simply believe what they want to believe, or they could not go by faith and simply say that they don't know who committed the crime.

The opposite of faith is not absolutel knowledge. The opposite of faith is requiring positive evidence for positive claims.

 

[AV1611VET]

So they want to vent, ridicule and rail. Well so do I, against Science and all the harm and damage Science does to people.

If that's your calling, Jazer, go for it; I'm behind you all the way!

 

[AV1611VET]

That's nice. Can you or AV answer my question? So, per your definition, faith is not possible without science?

Til My Faith Becomes Sight - YouTube

 

[Naraoia]

Science. It works, b****es!

'Nuff said.

 

[Belk]

Til My Faith Becomes Sight - YouTube

Very pretty. If there is one great thing about religion, it has been the inspiration for some of mankind's greatest works of art.

Now, are you willing to give me a straight answer to my question?

 

[thaumaturgy]

This double standard of theirs has gone way to far. They expect us to know more about science then what they are willing to learn. Yet they know nothing about the Bible. They want to put five or ten min work into having a discussion with people who have studied the subject for 20 years or more.

I find that an annoying point to hear. I spent a lot of time studying faith and religion. Years and years. When I discuss religion I try to back it up with at least some research and citations.

Remember: many atheists came to atheism through religion. Sometimes because of it, but sometimes after long study and assessment.

Please don't make the assumption that we know almost nothing of faith or the Bible or Christianity. Many atheists are extremely well versed in matters of faith and, certainly here in the west, in matters of Christianity. From it's history to its development to its tenents.

About the best you can get them to do is to go to a atheist web site to get some lies and bring them back here to try and pass them off as the truth.

That's why I always attempt to quote the Bible or a legitimate historical citation in my discussions.

All the time complaining that we do not know enough scientific truth.

You may be a rarity, Jazer. For knowing science. Many on here who rail against evolution or old earth geology don't really know much about it other than what their pastor has provided them. The citations they make, if any, are usually limited to places that have a "statement of faith" associated with them (hardly scientific resources).

 

[thaumaturgy]

Psst -- let me clue you in on something, bro.

These guys are what I call 'Internet scientists.'

What about those of us who have made a living doing real science in the real world for many years?

In my opinion, they are here to vent, ridicule and rail against God and His children -- probably for some bad experience they had earlier in life.

Naaah, it's just that when people of faith come out and declare non-scientific things as truth (ie "evolution is a lie" or "the earth is only 6000 or so years old") we have to rebut this lest it make it into education by dint of having it said over and over.

And right now the only folks who are saying such things just happen to be people of faith.

Sometimes as an atheist it is kinda fun to talk religion though. I mean, since many of us have studied it at length it is fun to debate the points.

If you want "railing" then you can get it by working many of us up simply by repeatedly using poor logic and seeming to be proud of that, or acting proud and haughty based on personal ignorance and incredulity. That tends to get some of our dander up.

I could be wrong though; and there may be exceptions, but I doubt it.

Of course there are no exceptions in a world build on black and white.

 

[Freodin]

Well I could have just said: Faith occurs when science is resisted, but considering the thread title, I felt obligated to precede it with something sciency.

I figured you guys would be all over me for the science and overlook the main point; but after almost six years, I really don't expect too much from you guys in the way of spiritual comprehension.

No offense --

I'll be glad to look like a clown in the science department anytime.

See, that is the problem with you.
You don't know what you are talking about.
You don't care that you don't know what you are talking about.
But you keep talking about it.

You look like a clown, you say. And you are glad about it.
Well, most clowns are professionals. They know exactly what they do. And they don't cry persecution when they are laughed about.

You claim that we "internet scientists" are here to vent, ridicule and rail against God and "His children". We don't. We vent, ridicule and rail againt people looking like clowns in the science department. The people who use "sciency" language without having the relevant "spiritual comprehension".

The splinter that you imagine in the eye of the other is just a reflection of the redwood-sized beam that goes straight through your brain.