Weeping and Gnashing

[Ran77]

One of the other threads brought up "weeping and gnashing of teeth." I thought it might be interesting to discuss that topic here. Please offer your understanding of the verses that are provided.


Matthew 24: 51

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Checking Strong's Concordance it lists the word klauthmos for weeping and brygmos for gnashing.


Klauthmos = weeping, wailing, lamentation.

Seems to be indicating that this person is unhappy. Very unhappy.


Brygmos =

1) a gnashing of teeth
a) used to denote extreme anguish and utter despair of men consigned to eternal punishment in hell

2) snarling, growling: in the sense of biting


More of the same.



And

Matthew 13: 41-42

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



Based on these two verses this seems to be a phrase used to describe the unhappiness a person feels when they are cast away from God. The first describes being appointed the same fate as the hypocrites and the second describes a fiery furnace.



Here are a few more verses.

Luke 13: 28

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


This gnashing is done when a person sees the rewards of the prophets as they are thrust out from among them.



Acts 7: 51-54

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.


Those who resisted the Holy Ghost and also did not keep the law gnashed when they heard the truth.



Mosiah 16: 2

1 And now, it came to pass that after Abinadi had spoken these words he stretched forth his hand and said: The time shall come when all shall see the salvation of the Lord; when every nation, kindred, tongue, and people shall see eye to eye and shall confess before God that his judgments are just.

2 And then shall the wicked be cast out, and they shall have cause to howl, and weep, and wail, and gnash their teeth; and this because they would not hearken unto the voice of the Lord; therefore the Lord redeemeth them not.


In Mosiah we see that the wicked will howl, weep, wail, and gnash because they will not be redeemed because of their wickedness. I notice that this happens after everyone sees the salvation of the Lord. Sort of a - this is what you could have had but this is what you get - kind of thing.


That should be enough for now.

 

[yogosans14]

Mosiah?That is not and will never be part of the inspired 66 books of the Bible.

 

[timewerx]

Nice thread Ran77

I can tell you how you can be in a situation where you will have extreme regret and extreme sorrow.

What if you went hunting with your son in the forest, you went your separate ways in a short while. Then you heard like what sounded like a deer behind the bush then you lunged at it in fury and stabbed the creature over and over and at your horror, you found out it is your son!

It will be a day of great sorrow and heart-breaking wailing and regrets!

When many Christians in the end found out they have rejected Jesus and trampled Him underfoot, I simply have no words to describe how they would feel!

 

[Norah63]

Words of scripture that go deep into the spirit Ran.
We have much to be thankful for, to hear the words of the Lord, hear His voice, heed His call in this world.
To resist the Holy Ghost when He is leading is a fearful thing.
Timewerx, great illustration, to know that one has wounded the Lord when they didn't take time to really see where the harm was heading.
How unhappy it will be for those who do not care in this time, the damage they are causing for themselves in the end.

 

[Rescued One]

SAINTS COMMANDED TO MARRY FOR ETERNITY.
The Lord has commanded us, as it is recorded in the revelations, that marriage among members of the Church should be performed in his holy house, and not for time only, but for time and all eternity. Therefore, those who are satisfied to receive a ceremony for time only, uniting them for this life, and are content with that, are ignorant of this fundamental principle of the gospel and its consequences, or they are in rebellion against the commandments of the Lord.
Now, what I want to say is intended very largely for the parents of the young people. I think the parents, perhaps, are more to be blamed, because, in many instances, very many instances, they have not taught their children the sacredness of the marriage covenant….
It fills my heart with sadness when I see in the paper the name of a daughter or a son of members of this Church, and discover that she or he is going to have a ceremony and be married outside of the temple of the Lord, because I realize what it means, that they are cutting themselves off from exaltation in the kingdom of God.

SORROW IN RESURRECTION IF NO ETERNAL MARRIAGE.
These young people who seem to be so happy now, when they rise in the resurrection-and find themselves in the condition in which they will find themselves-then there will be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and bitterness of soul; and they have brought it upon themselves because of their lack of faith and understanding of the gospel, and from, I am sorry to say, the encouragement they have received many times from their own parents….
Of course there are people who are not worthy to go to the temple, and therefore should not go to the temple. No one should go to the temple except those who are worthy, as the Lord has said, "who [have] overcome by faith," and are cleansed and are just and true. Then they can go to the temple. If they are unclean, if they lack the faith, they had better stay out until they get the faith and are clean
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:60

 

[drstevej]

You mentioned the greek words used in Matthew's statement. What greek words does Mosiah use?

Without this we can not be sure the same concepts are being discussed.

 

[Anto9us]

Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Matt 51 is about the servant (believer) who when Jesus is delayed (no pre trib rapture) that servant falls back to his old ways and then tribulation Jesus shows and he's not ready Watching for the lords return - and Now He is worst off as he recieves Many beatings while those who didn't (unbelievers) get a few....

Same as ten virgins - these both are echoed in 2 Peter 2:20 (I think)

once they have escaped the sin of the world through a lord and savior
then become entangled (again) and overcome (fall away like servant) the latter (a fallen believer) is worst off than at first (when he was a LoF heading unbeliever)

luke 38 also is one who is cast Out of the kingdom - a believer who for whatever reason will be cast out..... Either fell into unbelief or trusted in a man made false salvation or when the master doesn't show - many fall away - pre trib rapture doesn't happen - most Christians believe in that......


Remember when Jesus was on the cross and said forgive them for they k ow not what they do? They knew he was dying and in pain BUT since they wernt believers jesus asked for their forgivness - in the same why those who are unbelievers are the ones who didn't know better above....


Fact is a believer will be worst off because he or she KNEW better to trust in that day and be ready for the thief.

Note ALL who are outside will be weeping in an controlable manner. But the believer more so since they will know what the Had..... And blew it...

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

These beatings are the beatings Christ took for the believer (IMO)
these are for rejecting Christ and Not for being a sinful unbeliever who has to Now pay for their sins....

 

[Ran77]

Nice thread Ran77

I can tell you how you can be in a situation where you will have extreme regret and extreme sorrow.

What if you went hunting with your son in the forest, you went your separate ways in a short while. Then you heard like what sounded like a deer behind the bush then you lunged at it in fury and stabbed the creature over and over and at your horror, you found out it is your son!

It will be a day of great sorrow and heart-breaking wailing and regrets!

When many Christians in the end found out they have rejected Jesus and trampled Him underfoot, I simply have no words to describe how they would feel!

Excellent post. Thank you.

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

SAINTS COMMANDED TO MARRY FOR ETERNITY.
The Lord has commanded us, as it is recorded in the revelations, that marriage among members of the Church should be performed in his holy house, and not for time only, but for time and all eternity. Therefore, those who are satisfied to receive a ceremony for time only, uniting them for this life, and are content with that, are ignorant of this fundamental principle of the gospel and its consequences, or they are in rebellion against the commandments of the Lord.
Now, what I want to say is intended very largely for the parents of the young people. I think the parents, perhaps, are more to be blamed, because, in many instances, very many instances, they have not taught their children the sacredness of the marriage covenant….
It fills my heart with sadness when I see in the paper the name of a daughter or a son of members of this Church, and discover that she or he is going to have a ceremony and be married outside of the temple of the Lord, because I realize what it means, that they are cutting themselves off from exaltation in the kingdom of God.

SORROW IN RESURRECTION IF NO ETERNAL MARRIAGE.
These young people who seem to be so happy now, when they rise in the resurrection-and find themselves in the condition in which they will find themselves-then there will be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and bitterness of soul; and they have brought it upon themselves because of their lack of faith and understanding of the gospel, and from, I am sorry to say, the encouragement they have received many times from their own parents….
Of course there are people who are not worthy to go to the temple, and therefore should not go to the temple. No one should go to the temple except those who are worthy, as the Lord has said, "who [have] overcome by faith," and are cleansed and are just and true. Then they can go to the temple. If they are unclean, if they lack the faith, they had better stay out until they get the faith and are clean
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:60

This ofcourse isn't true! It goes against scripture as someone already pointed out....

 

[Ran77]

Words of scripture that go deep into the spirit Ran.
We have much to be thankful for, to hear the words of the Lord, hear His voice, heed His call in this world.
To resist the Holy Ghost when He is leading is a fearful thing.
Timewerx, great illustration, to know that one has wounded the Lord when they didn't take time to really see where the harm was heading.
How unhappy it will be for those who do not care in this time, the damage they are causing for themselves in the end.

Another good post. Thanks.

 

[Ran77]

SAINTS COMMANDED TO MARRY FOR ETERNITY.
The Lord has commanded us, as it is recorded in the revelations, that marriage among members of the Church should be performed in his holy house, and not for time only, but for time and all eternity. Therefore, those who are satisfied to receive a ceremony for time only, uniting them for this life, and are content with that, are ignorant of this fundamental principle of the gospel and its consequences, or they are in rebellion against the commandments of the Lord.
Now, what I want to say is intended very largely for the parents of the young people. I think the parents, perhaps, are more to be blamed, because, in many instances, very many instances, they have not taught their children the sacredness of the marriage covenant….
It fills my heart with sadness when I see in the paper the name of a daughter or a son of members of this Church, and discover that she or he is going to have a ceremony and be married outside of the temple of the Lord, because I realize what it means, that they are cutting themselves off from exaltation in the kingdom of God.

SORROW IN RESURRECTION IF NO ETERNAL MARRIAGE.
These young people who seem to be so happy now, when they rise in the resurrection-and find themselves in the condition in which they will find themselves-then there will be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and bitterness of soul; and they have brought it upon themselves because of their lack of faith and understanding of the gospel, and from, I am sorry to say, the encouragement they have received many times from their own parents….
Of course there are people who are not worthy to go to the temple, and therefore should not go to the temple. No one should go to the temple except those who are worthy, as the Lord has said, "who [have] overcome by faith," and are cleansed and are just and true. Then they can go to the temple. If they are unclean, if they lack the faith, they had better stay out until they get the faith and are clean
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:60

Is there some point that you are trying to make with this?

 

[drstevej]

Is there some point that you are trying to make with this?

Seems clear to me. It is discussing weeping and gnashing of teeth due to a unmarried state in eternity. Not a biblical concept. But she did document an LDS source in affirmation of the view.

 

[Anto9us]

The point seems clear to me also.

It seems I have "stumbled into another MORMON THREAD" somehow - maybe it should be called a 'crypto-Mormon thread' because it doesn't have the word "Satan" in the Title nor say "LDS version" or anything of the sort

If I see something posted by anyone in a thread - and the idea is BLATANTLY against Scripture - especially in DIRECT OPPOSITION to what JESUS HIMSELF HAS SAID - I am probably going to post a scripture in reference to it

I thought this was just a thread about WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH

"Mosiah" is quoted as a reference - means nothing to me - but when a specific mention is made about "Eternal Marriage", and the whole thing is unscriptural - I now have just one question to ask of anyone --

Is there any non-LDS Christian group anywhere - that anyone knows of - in which the members believe

that you will be "married in Heaven"? In DIRECT opposition to what Christ taught in Mark 12?

I don't know that there is Any such Christian group - I have never heard of any such teaching and am astonished that anyone holding such a view of "Eternal Marriage" could consider it Christian in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER - since it is 180 degrees from the specific teaching of Christ

 

[Ran77]

Seems clear to me. It is discussing weeping and gnashing of teeth due to a unmarried state in eternity. Not a biblical concept. But she did document an LDS source in affirmation of the view.

If that's the case I'm sure she can tell me that herself.

 

[Ran77]

The point seems clear to me also.

It seems I have "stumbled into another MORMON THREAD" somehow - maybe it should be called a 'crypto-Mormon thread' because it doesn't have the word "Satan" in the Title nor say "LDS version" or anything of the sort

This isn't an LDS thread. Granted, it does appear that some people want to make every thread that is posted on this forum an LDS thread, but I as the originator of the thread started it to get a discussionon what is intended when the term weeping and gnashing of teeth is mentioned. I'm okay with including the LDS verses on the subject, but as you can see from the OP I mainly accessed the Bible on the subject.

If I see something posted by anyone in a thread - and the idea is BLATANTLY against Scripture - especially in DIRECT OPPOSITION to what JESUS HIMSELF HAS SAID - I am probably going to post a scripture in reference to it

Please do.

I thought this was just a thread about WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH

It is.

"Mosiah" is quoted as a reference - means nothing to me - but when a specific mention is made about "Eternal Marriage", and the whole thing is unscriptural - I now have just one question to ask of anyone --

I'm glad you brought that point up. Does the verse from Mosiah say anything in contrast, or radically different, from the other verses I posted? Or does it seem to be fairly consistent with the rest?

Is there any non-LDS Christian group anywhere - that anyone knows of - in which the members believe

that you will be "married in Heaven"? In DIRECT opposition to what Christ taught in Mark 12?

I don't know that there is Any such Christian group - I have never heard of any such teaching and am astonished that anyone holding such a view of "Eternal Marriage" could consider it Christian in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER - since it is 180 degrees from the specific teaching of Christ

This is not the topic. If you want to discuss this please start your own thread.

 

[Anto9us]

Ran - the verse from Mosiah seems consistent with the canonical verses. As someone pointed out though, I guess there is no opportunity to "look at it's Greek words" as is the case for canonical verses.

I will take it under advisement as to whether I should start my own thread about trying to find out if any non-LDS Christians believe people are married in heaven.

I will review the newly done SOP for the forum - I would not want it to be viewed as an "Ask a Mormon" thread which would not be cool - I would in effect be asking JUST THE OPPOSITE:

"Who in non-LDS Christianity believes people are married in heaven?"

but it might be construed as non-kosher per the rules anyway

 

[Norah63]

All of the words of any on this forum could be said to 'not be in the bible'.
Topic is weeping and gnashing.
When reading in Matt 13 of the wheat and tares, there were those who wanted to pull up what they thought was not wheat. They were reproved because the Lord told them not to; verse 30, allow both to grow together until the harvest. So that says that those who would not obey our Lord are not of His flock.
Angels will gather out all the stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness.
Verse 42 says the angels will cast the those into the furnace of fire in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Those thrown in will be in such a state of rebellion that just pure anger with weeping and gnashing is all they have left, with no relief. Not even crying out for mercy, how sad.

 

[Rescued One]

If that's the case I'm sure she can tell me that herself.

Seems clear to me. It is discussing weeping and gnashing of teeth due to a unmarried state in eternity. Not a biblical concept. But she did document an LDS source in affirmation of the view.

The point seems clear to me also. . .

Is there any non-LDS Christian group anywhere - that anyone knows of - in which the members believe

that you will be "married in Heaven"? In DIRECT opposition to what Christ taught in Mark 12?

drstevej is right on.