Yes D'Ann .. . it is we who must forgive them.
No. Its not
them we are forgiving but asking for God to forgive the
act itself. Okay, this post is going to be long so I ask you to put up with me.
and you are saying that I am defending this, no I'm not. I'm just presenting it for consideration.
what I am defending is you to not misrepresent the premise. If you are going to object to it, fine but object to what the premise actually is.
No one said we forgive the family member. This is like the 3rd time I'm making this clear.
We ask God that the sin, the act, the event in time
that gave the enemy power, to be forgiven, have mercy on, removed, what ever words you want to use, to "break the curse", what ever words you want to use. We ask God to allow us to take back the ground that was given to him.
as you say, no one has power but God in this. It's He who says if Satan will attack or if he won't and how far he can go.
that is what we would do, ask to God to take back the ground that was freely given to Satan that God allowed Satan to take. When we give Satan ground in our lives, the effects are far reaching.
Nothing about this is forgiving anyone sins or forgiving any dead person of their sins.
This is not about any guilt of sin on any level, but the effects sin has on us, our family, and on the world.
are you telling me that sin and gossip and anger and hate, etc does not attract the demons and that they do not latch on to that and then influence the person/s and take it up 1000 notches?
Are you telling me that belonging to the occult does not weaken your free will to the point- you give yourself to Satan and can become possessed by that?
Are you telling me that ppl who practice this, does not bring any bad spirits into the lives of the ppl they live with or are around? That if you are into this junk, the person you sleep in a bed with can not be effected by the evil spirit that is with your spouse, that the devil will not also attack anyone who has any connection to that person?
Of course this is true.
And, how do we remedy it? We do not go and ask God to forgive the person/s. We go ask to take back the ground Satan claimed.
We have to go to the point of origin and take back this ground, not by confessing the sins of another and asking for forgiveness for the person but by an act of obedience to God because
we are not removing their sin from them but the effects of their sin from us.
Christ died and His blood is what cleanses us from all sin and so we have the offering for sin, we merely claim the victory we already have and offer His blood to get rid of the evil that others ppl brought into our lives.
This is not a magic pill solution. We don't just say, hey I take back the stake the enemy has claimed and that's it.
We have to dedicate ourselves to God fully and lead others in our life to live a holy life, not a life of sin, because living that life of sin is what wreaks havoc in our lives and then it just continues. But we can not do it alone and by our own strength and power. We need God's grace and blessing on us.
And alls we need to do is to ask... and we shall receive and as CATHOLICS we know asking is more then lip service. We have to give our whole selves to God.
Its not about the salvation of any dead ppl, its about us living a life free from the enemies influence in our lives because his influence is not happy- its misery. I really do not believe God wants us to live in misery.
It's simple. Its about living a sin free holy life and that is THE only thing that will give us a life that's not miserable. Its about living in the world, not of it. and you now the saying- misery loves company and you are going to say we do not pass this on? Sure we do.
Jesus said, He came to give us life and give it to the fullest. When we live a life of sin, we may think its pleasure and fun but its bondage. When we influence our kids to live the same way, they are in bondage.
How many baptized church ppl, Catholic and other do we know who still lives a life of sin even though they go to Church and Mass?
There is a certain amount of sin left in our life, I know there are tons of it left in mine and I see the effects of my sins and the sins of others in my family. I see what it does and its not nice.
It needs to be dealt with and how do we deal with it? First, we have to know this is the result of sin and a long line of sin.
Then we should try to identify the source of the sin, what is the disobedience, what is the sin that is causing me and everyone to keep going on like this?
Is it due to our sins that we picked up from someone else. Its due to the enemy attacking us in the areas he knows he can get us in.
And what caused God to give him the permission to attack us?
Original sin left us with moral wounds to our charterer, as we know. We saw how he was allowed to attack Job and we see the wounds of sin ad what they can do. Job stood his ground but what about the person who gives in?
God does not intervene with the free will of a person who gives his will to the devil.
What did we learn from Job and how the blessing are also for the family?
You don't think once the disobedience sets in, the bad effects of that are for the family?
So it would be good to know if it began by someone being into the occult? Someone who is a Atheist? Someone who is a pagan, a person who was/is a criminal, a person who had many abortions, someone who lived a marked life of serious sin?
That is how he gets us to give in, through the weakened will from original sin and then through us choosing sin, what ever that sin is.
The next thing to do is ask God to remove the influence of Satan, what ever power he was given to attack the whole family. We take it back.
Then we repent of our OWN sins and what ever bad influence you brought to the table.
Then we pray for
the people living. and of course as Catholics, we pray for our deceased because we do not know if they are in purgatory or not.
For God to be merciful on
the living people. We offer Mass for the whole intention, for the living people to be delivered from their bondage to sin and for the souls in purgatory.
We offer Mass for the "curse" if that's what you want to call it, for the "sin", for the disobedience, the event, the act, that placed our whole family in the enemies hands.
When I say hands, I mean
subject to attacks and we know the attacks wear us down if we are not living for God and then with our defenses weakened, we begin to fall into the same sins as our family members and we just repeat the cycle.
The point is NOT to deliver anyone from the past but to take back the ground, to break the chain, the cycle of dysfunction and sin which ARE the effects of someone else/our own sins.
The purpose is for us to live holy lives and not lives of sin. If we keep living a life of sin, we will keep belonging to the devil while we are on earth. If we live a life of holiness, we will belong to God.
This is not about ppl being damned either when they die. If they repent even if they were hanging by a thread, we know God saves them. Its not about that, but about theosis and holiness.
Its about us not hanging by a thread anymore. That is not the abundant life Jesus came to give us.
The devil was put here and he attacks us, this is his job- to take our life from us. If he can't literally kill us, he will attack us with illnesses via our own neglect of our heath, he will attack us via the dysfunction we choose, if he can kill us by getting us to commit suicide, he will, if he can't, he will certainty try to make our life suck as much as possible.
Jesus came to free us and He came to give us LIFE to the FULLEST. We have to commit to Him or we will just spin our wheels and be under this influence.
If we are baptized and we have access to the Church and the sacraments, of course we can be saved but we know the name of the game is reaching theosis and if we are caught up in sin and its a habit and no matter what we just can't shake it- guess what? You may be under an attack that is a result of a long line of family members who never fully lived the life of a Christian and kept their bonds, ties, what ever you want to call it, to sin.
The main message is, as long as we sin, we stay tied to Satan and we will suffer all kinds of problems and these issues that are sin, have a impact on others.
The message is, we are called to be holy and this calling is not optional. We are called to this and if we do not choose it and we choose sin, then we will take what comes.
The message is, we can not have one foot in heaven and the other in sin. You have to make the choice to cross the line, resolve your will to give up sin and live FULLY for God.
To do so is to let the Holy Spirit to govern your life and your family situation where the family is now under the influence of the Holy Spirit and not the bad spirits. Holiness is what we be passed down. Virtue and not vice.
If you continue to sin, then you continue to bring the evil into your family and this evil is what will influence them.
We have free will and if this is what we choose, then God is not going to interfere, you know that.
