We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[IamRedeemed]

Zondervan is owned by Harper- Collins
It is also an easily researchable fact that the NIV
has eliminated many Scriptures as well as falsely translated others.
It is one of the reasons why the homosexual agenda several years ago,
thought they had a chance with the NIV to get the references to
homosexuality removed, as it is already a compromised version.
Fortunately at least that was a failed pursuit.

Zondervan Publishing House is a long standing Christian publisher.

I would imagine if they had done such a thing? They would be publishing a copy of the Satanic Bible so that Pastors and counselors can read it to better understand the way of thinking it contains. Its not to promote, if that be the case.

I just did a search on Zondervan's page and did not come up with any product under "Satanic Bible." It does show a book called "Satanism." http://tinyurl.com/389evc

Where did you get that juicy bit of info from?


Yes...perplexed... GeneZ




.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

*edited due to lack of relevance*
http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780380015399

 

[Giver]

You quoted them correctly.

I showed you HOW you misuse Scripture that you quote.

At least, I tried. I think you are just not capable of seeing the point you keep on missing.

I can see why you believe what you do for that reason.

There you go again. When you can’t explain a verse that doesn’t fit into your way of thinking, you say it has been explained before. You haven’t and if you had you should at least refer to where and when.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

There you go again. When you can’t explain a verse that doesn’t fit into your way of thinking, you say it has been explained before. You haven’t and if you had you should at least refer to where and when.

Hi again Giver,
Just wanted to ask, since we are not taking things into context at all, have you cut off any body parts lately that have caused you to sin? For the most part, it seems like the passages you are using to make your case are not taken into context at all, but generalized in order to fit the criteria. If you believe we are asked to not defend ourselves and our families from harm then you are deceived. I do not mean to offend with this reply but just hope that you may understand.

 

[Zecryphon]

You don't have to do a "word search" on the word "deserve" to understand the
basics of the Gospel.

I understand there are immature Christians and there are also people claiming
to be Christians who deny the resurrection. Then there are those who think they
have arrived, siding with those who deny the resurrection, deny upright living,
and wear masks here but are totally different people elsewhere reprimanding
other Christians. It's an ugly scene, no doubt. There is a whole array of garbage
going on that shouldn't be. I agree. It is grieving the Holy Spirit.

Btw, just a thought I would mention, did you know that the NIV is
published by the same publisher of the "Satanic Bible". True. Check it out.

Good night.

I'm sorry, IAR, but you are incorrect. The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey is published by Avon books, not Zondervan.

Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Satanic-Bible...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198158406&sr=8-1

Note to all and to the mods, this is not a promotion of the Satanic Bible.

 

[Zecryphon]

Zondervan Publishing House is a long standing Christian publisher.

I would imagine if they had done such a thing? They would be publishing a copy of the Satanic Bible so that Pastors and counselors can read it to better understand the way of thinking it contains. Its not to promote, if that be the case.

I just did a search on Zondervan's page and did not come up with any product under "Satanic Bible." It does show a book called "Satanism." http://tinyurl.com/389evc

Where did you get that juicy bit of info from?


Yes...perplexed... GeneZ




.

I used to own a copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey and I read it twice. The reason I initially bought it, is for the reason you state pastors should read it. I am not a pastor though. I wanted to find out what was true and what was fiction regarding Satanism. Most everything I heard from the church regarding the truth about Satanism is either a lie or a distortion of the truth. I think the mature Christians should read this book, so that Christians will finally know what they are talking about when it comes to Satanism.

 

[GenemZ]

Zondervan is owned by Harper- Collins
It is also an easily researchable fact that the NIV
has eliminated many Scriptures as well as falsely translated others.
It is one of the reasons why the homosexual agenda several years ago,
thought they had a chance with the NIV to get the references to
homosexuality removed, as it is already a compromised version.
Fortunately at least that was a failed pursuit.

Question: Did you get your idea from some KJV Only, source?

References to homosexuality are not removed. What are you even talking about. It all sounds like gossip to me.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."
​

The reason it gets attacked (no translation is perfect, by the way) is because it makes the Word of God plain to read and easier to understand. Some see that as a threat, you know.

Genesis 19:4-5 (New International Version)
"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
​

Or, would you prefer the KJV's "That we may know them?"


The rumor mill works with those not willing to find out for themselves.

 

[mont974x4]

Gene I think IAR was simply saying that since people already compromised in some areas when the NIV was translated the homosexual agenda was to attempt to get the references removed...and it failed.

 

[Giver]

Hi again Giver,
Just wanted to ask, since we are not taking things into context at all, have you cut off any body parts lately that have caused you to sin? For the most part, it seems like the passages you are using to make your case are not taken into context at all, but generalized in order to fit the criteria. If you believe we are asked to not defend ourselves and our families from harm then you are deceived. I do not mean to offend with this reply but just hope that you may understand.

There you go again making accusations and nothing to show what you are talking about. I haven’t had to lose any body parts because the Holy Spirit keeps me well protected from sin.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I'm sorry Z, but I am afraid you are short of some information.
The Satanic Bible is published by Harper-Collins who owns Zondervan
(the publisher listed for the NIV) and Avon books as well as other "brand"
names they publish under.

Here is their company profile:

http://www.harpercollins.com/footer/companyProfile.aspx

Here also is a current ad on Barnes and Noble's site and you will
note the publisher listed is Harper-Collins.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?r=1&ean=9780380015399

God bless.

PS. Sorry OP, I had no idea this would become on an ongoing debate when the
information is completely available and easily researchable online.

I'm sorry, IAR, but you are incorrect. The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey is published by Avon books, not Zondervan.

Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Satanic-Bible...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198158406&sr=8-1

Note to all and to the mods, this is not a promotion of the Satanic Bible.

 

[IamRedeemed]

No. I did not.
And I never said they were removed.
I said the homosexual agenda targeted the NIV with that hope, because
it is already a compromised version of the Bible.
Don't you remember the NIV being targeted about 15-20 years ago by
the homosexual lobby? It isn't gossip and is completely researchable.
I just happen to remember it.
I am trying desperately not to derail this thread.
I had NO IDEA this easily researchable information, would become such a debate.
Please start another thread or just do the research. People always believe what
they see for themselves, rather than what they are told, so it would be best to
research it yourself and go where the information leads you and follow it
to your own conclusion.

God bless

I am very sorry OP!

**unsubscribing as to not derail any further

Question: Did you get your idea from some KJV Only, source?

References to homosexuality are not removed. What are you even talking about. It all sounds like gossip to me.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders."
​

The reason it gets attacked (no translation is perfect, by the way) is because it makes the Word of God plain to read and easier to understand. Some see that as a threat, you know.

Genesis 19:4-5 (New International Version)
"Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
​

Or, would you prefer the KJV's "That we may know them?"


The rumor mill works with those not willing to find out for themselves.

 

[2theBone]

Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

If what you say is true.......almost every Christian alive is in DEEP trouble.

And.......you are probably right.

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

Reminds me of how the Jehovah Witnesses refuse blood transfusions... And, they are FAITHFUL to follow that. You think God is pleased?

If enough Christians believed you? Ironically, you would end up getting a good number of them hurt.

But, I have spent enough time here with you. No one has gotten the Jehovah Witnesses to change their thinking, so why should you be any different than they?

Remember... if your eye causes you to sin!

​

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[2theBone]

Aw darn.....the good ones always leave just when I get here.

 

[GenemZ]

No. I did not.
And I never said they were removed.
I said the homosexual agenda targeted the NIV with that hope, because
it is already a compromised version of the Bible.
Don't you remember the NIV being targeted about 15-20 years ago by
the homosexual lobby? It isn't gossip and is completely researchable.

What you leave out.. It was the most recent translation going through the typical revisal stages that translations tend to go through after their release. That is why it was targeted. For, it was able to be. It was becoming very popular and well read. It was logical translation to target.

It so happens to be a very good translation. For, in spite of some disputed passages.. one reading the KJV, and others which use various forms of archaic English, even if they were more accurate in a technical sense - one will learn more from God's Word reading the NIV for yourself because of how it is written. And, EVERY translation will be attacked by someone after its release. Its the norm.

FYI... Derailing this particular thread is not my concern. For it was a derailment of sorts to begin with.


In Christ, GeneZ



.

 

[IamRedeemed]

The OP of the thread is Giver though isn't it?

I respectfully disagree with you on many of the points you have made.
I wouldn't say anything about it if the truth consisted of all of the
innocence and harmlessness that you named.Those defenses are typical
and expected of those who have not held a personal investigation, which
I encourage anyone who wants to know for themselves, to do so.
Don't take my word for it.

God bless.

What you leave out.. It was the most recent translation going through the typical revisal stages that translations tend to go through after their release. That is why it was targeted. For, it was able to be. It was becoming very popular and well read. It was logical translation to target.

It so happens to be a very good translation. For, in spite of some disputed passages.. one reading the KJV, and others which use various forms of archaic English, even if they were more accurate in a technical sense - one will learn more from God's Word reading the NIV for yourself because of how it is written. And, EVERY translation will be attacked by someone after its release. Its the norm.

FYI... Derailing this particular thread is not my concern. For it was a derailment of sorts to begin with.


In Christ, GeneZ



.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

There you go again making accusations and nothing to show what you are talking about. I haven’t had to lose any body parts because the Holy Spirit keeps me well protected from sin.

I didn't consider myself making accusations, I just pointed out that you seem to adhere to a few lines of scripture without taking them into context at all. And sorry to tell you, but we all fall into sin, if we didn't then we would not need a Savior.

 

[VCViking]

Jesus personally told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

The written Word of God tells us the same thing.

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

When God tells us something it is very dangerous to ignore what he says. Right?

Then why did His disciples carry swords? Why did Jesus tell them to sell their clothes and buy swords? Why did Jesus not rebuke the centurion who was a Roman military officer who commanded 100 men? Why does Scripture not condemn the soldiers who asked John the Baptist what to do?


Luke 22:36,38
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”


Matthew 8:9-10
9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.

10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!



Luke 3:14
Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?” So he said to them, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."

 

[VCViking]

I used to own a copy of The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey and I read it twice. The reason I initially bought it, is for the reason you state pastors should read it. I am not a pastor though. I wanted to find out what was true and what was fiction regarding Satanism. Most everything I heard from the church regarding the truth about Satanism is either a lie or a distortion of the truth. I think the mature Christians should read this book, so that Christians will finally know what they are talking about when it comes to Satanism.

If I may add to this. From what I understand, there are different levels of satanism and satanists. There are satanists who take it further then Anton's church of satan. They actually mock Anton for his commercialism. They hold to others such as Aleister Crowley and his writings, namely The Book of the Law. Very evil!

 

[Giver]

Chang

Then why did His disciples carry swords?Jesus allowed the disciples to carry swords, I would think, because until he ascended to the Father and sent his Holy Spirit, they were still under the Old Law. The new covenant didn’t come into affect until then. Why did Jesus tell them to sell their clothes and buy swords?
I guess you haven’t read many of my post on this thread so I explain again about the two swords. (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”

(Luke 22:38) “Lord, they said ‘there are two swords here now,’ He said to them, ‘that is enough!

Here is what some bible scholars have said about that passage of scripture: “The Apostles have taken the words of Jesus too literally and he closes the conversation abruptly”. Also, “The purse to buy, the sword to procure by force the necessities of life. All this is symbolic of a mission in a hostile world.” These scholars wrote the Jerusalem Bible. That’s a Catholic Bible and Catholics believe much the way you do about the subject of self-defense.

Another question you should ask yourself is: would Jesus have said that two swords were enough if they were to use swords to defend all the disciples that were there?
Why did Jesus not rebuke the centurion who was a Roman military officer who commanded 100 men? Why does Scripture not condemn the soldiers who asked John the Baptist what to do?


Luke 22:36,38
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”


Matthew 8:9-10
9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.

10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!



Luke 3:14
Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, “And what shall we do?” So he said to them, “Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."

Now you asked me all those questions, you should ask yourself why did Jesus say:(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” And, (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

Most people just ignore these verses or try to water them down to where, because of their lack of faith, their conscience will not bother them too much.