We are not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[GenemZ]

Mistake

 

[Doer]

May be for you, but not for me. The soul bit I mean..

I am saved, sealed, by the Holy Spirit, scripture says so, and forgiven all sin present past and future, same scripture says so in that is implied as without being forgiven as stated above, the guarantee wouldn't have been able to be given, tho it is given.



Sorry to hear you have no regard as well as consider non christian for those who because of you are safe at this very moment. fairly sad.

Not sure where in the bible God has removed us from this world, he has not. We are not to be like the world, but we live in the world nonetheless.

Please be careful with that mindset. People have tricked their selves into believing they are saved because they think just because they said a prayer one time they are saved. We have to examine ourselves, and see that we are in the faith. Not in the past, but now. If you are to fall away and not come back, you were never saved in the first place. Read through John if you want to see how to examine yourself.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Well, I am not going to say that it is wrong to protect your family, because I just can't imagine not protecting them. On the other hand though, I do have trouble reconciling the fact that if someone is trying to hurt me, who isn't a follower of Christ, dies, then they are going to hell. So it is hard for me to understand how it could be right to kill them. I don't think I could live with the knowledge that I had a part in sending someone to hell. I couldn't just watch them harm my child, or something of the like though either. Maybe I need to keep some tranquilizer guns on hand or something.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Correction(Luke 6:27-29) “But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. To the man who slaps you on one cheek, present the other cheek too; to the man who takes you cloak from you, do not refuse your tunic.”

(Luke 6:30-35) “Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

Does this sound like someone who would want you to use a weapon to protect your possessions?

(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

This might be true for one's self. But would it be right to sacrifice the life of your child, or someone else for this other person who wants to harm them. If you watch a man rape your wife, you are not doing the right thing. You are essentially saying that his life is more important than your wife's. That isn't right either. We can sacrifice our own lives, not the lives of others, especially those who have been given to us to take care of.

 

[GenemZ]

Well, I am not going to say that it is wrong to protect your family, because I just can't imagine not protecting them. On the other hand though, I do have trouble reconciling the fact that if someone is trying to hurt me, who isn't a follower of Christ, dies, then they are going to hell. So it is hard for me to understand how it could be right to kill them.

You mean, God would have saved them if they had lived?

And, God let this one slip through his hands because you killed him before he could be saved?

Is God incompetent in knowing who will believe, and then allowing him to die before he would have been saved?

Is man greater than God in determining another's Eternal state? Man can override God's will for another?

Matthew 10:29 (New International Version)

"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father."

​

There is not one soul that has been killed/murdered that has gotten away from God's ability to save them first.

God is not incompetent in saving souls. To think someone could "get away" from God, before the omnipotent/omniscient God, would have saved him? Is to make God into being a man. A super man, maybe. But, still just a man. Nothing takes God by surprise.

John 6:37 (New International Version)

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."





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​

 

[Zecryphon]

Forgot to mention that.

Yes, the shotgun should be loaded and on safety. I would pump it and forfeit one shell just to give a warning! Its better than firing a warning shot and damaging the walls.

That way, if having no time, the gun is always ready to go.

Yeah, you never fire a "warning shot". You fired and missed. You also never call the cops to tell them you fired your gun while cleaning it. In both cases they will be more than happy to come over and arrest you for discharging a firearm in a residential area.

 

[Romanseight2005]

You mean, God would have saved them if they had lived?

And, God let this one slip through his hands because you killed him before he could be saved?

Is God incompetent in knowing who will believe, and then allowing him to die before he would have been saved?

Is man greater than God in determining another's Eternal state? Man can override God's will for another?

Matthew 10:29 (New International Version)

"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father."

​

There is not one soul that has been killed/murdered that has gotten away from God's ability to save them first.

God is not incompetent in saving souls. To think someone could "get away" from God before the omnipotent/omniscient God would have saved him? Is to make God into being a man. A super man, maybe. But, still just a man. Nothing takes God by surprise.

John 6:37 (New International Version)

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away."





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​

Matt 18:7

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
KJV


God may well use evil people, and even satan to work something for good. Does this then mean that the evil man, or satan is not held accountable for his actions? David would not harm Saul, even though God was going to have him killed. It was not David's place to take his life. I must be held responsible for a life I take, and no I could take no comfort in the thought that it must have been God's will. If a man goes on a murder spree, he goes to prison, or gets the chair. Whether or not God will use this to work out something is completely irrelevant, in determining innocence or guilt of the party who commits the act.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, I am not going to say that it is wrong to protect your family, because I just can't imagine not protecting them. On the other hand though, I do have trouble reconciling the fact that if someone is trying to hurt me, who isn't a follower of Christ, dies, then they are going to hell. So it is hard for me to understand how it could be right to kill them. I don't think I could live with the knowledge that I had a part in sending someone to hell. I couldn't just watch them harm my child, or something of the like though either. Maybe I need to keep some tranquilizer guns on hand or something.

I understand your dillema here. That's why you shoot to stop an advancing threat, not to kill. Now it's possible that the person who is in your home will die from his injuries, but being a crimminal is a high-risk profession. Once I have the threat neutralized, there's a perfect captive audience for a gospel presentation. I mean it's not like he or she now has a choice about whether or not to listen to you.

 

[2theBone]

Actually, to be safe, the first thing the intruder (or intruders) should hear is the blast of the shotgun. You are in your own house and you are in danger.

Of course, you must identify the intruder so you know it's not a drunken teenager from next door or something like that.

If you decide to keep or carry a gun for self-defense you MUST be prepared to kill......or someone will take the gun and use it on you and/or others (and that will be your fault for not being competent).

Like I said before, a barking dog will discourage 99.9 percent of all intruders and cannot be used against you.

One thing to note is that Tasers are coming down in price and may be an option.

Training from a professional is essential no matter what weapon you choose.

 

[GenemZ]

David would not harm Saul, even though God was going to have him killed. It was not David's place to take his life. I must be held responsible for a life I take, and no I could take no comfort in the thought that it must have been God's will.

You are just grabbing passages without regards to context.


David would not kill Saul, because Saul was God's anointed king! (1 Samuel 24:9-11)


Yet?

What was sung throughout Israel concerning David?

1 Samuel 18:6-7 (New International Version)
​

"When the men were returning home after David had killed the Philistine, the women came out from all the towns of Israel to meet King Saul with singing and dancing, with joyful songs and with tambourines and lutes. As they danced, they sang:
"Saul has slain his thousands,
and David his tens of thousands."

​

If a man goes on a murder spree, he goes to prison, or gets the chair. Whether or not God will use this to work out something is completely irrelevant, in determining innocence or guilt of the party who commits the act.

He might end up getting the chair because you were passive in protecting your loved ones... If you were not passive, your loved ones may be sitting in their chairs around the kitchen table.

The issue here in this thread is about protection and self defense... Not about who judges the criminal after he dies.





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[GenemZ]

Actually, to be safe, the first thing the intruder (or intruders) should hear is the blast of the shotgun. You are in your own house and you are in danger.

Of course, you must identify the intruder so you know it's not a drunken teenager from next door or something like that.

If you decide to keep or carry a gun for self-defense you MUST be prepared to kill......or someone will take the gun and use it on you and/or others (and that will be your fault for not being competent).

Like I said before, a barking dog will discourage 99.9 percent of all intruders and cannot be used against you.

One thing to note is that Tasers are coming down in price and may be an option.

Training from a professional is essential no matter what weapon you choose.

Not knocking training..... Just not everyone needs it like you claim in order to protect oneself. And, of course... if you are not willing to use the weapon, don't threaten with one.



If he is drunk and a teenager? It can happen. If it happens, one will have to think his way through. But if you live in a semi isolated area? No teen age neighbors?

There are no pat answers. Yet, a clever criminal may fake being a drunk teenager acting like he is in the wrong house...

Like I said. One will have to take the situation as it comes. I believe a woman I would not have put on her shoulders the responsibility other than to protect herself at all cost.

When someone breaks into your house, its like someone darting in front of your car as you are driving along. If the brakes work... so be it. If not? You should not be the one to be blamed.

Luke 11:21
"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."


Jesus Christ ... circa 30AD
​

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[GenemZ]

Yeah, you never fire a "warning shot". You fired and missed. You also never call the cops to tell them you fired your gun while cleaning it. In both cases they will be more than happy to come over and arrest you for discharging a firearm in a residential area.

It depends where you live...

 

[Romanseight2005]

Oh please... I'm sorry. You are just grabbing passages without regards to context.


David would not kill Saul, because Saul was God's anointed king! (1 Samuel 24:9-11)


Yet?

What was sung throughout Israel concerning David?

1 Samuel 18:6-7 (New International Version)
​

"When the men were returning home after David had killed the Philistine, the women came out from all the towns of Israel to meet King Saul with singing and dancing, with joyful songs and with tambourines and lutes. As they danced, they sang:
"Saul has slain his thousands,
and David his tens of thousands."

​

He might end up getting the chair because you were passive in protecting your loved ones... If you were not passive, your loved ones may be sitting in their chairs around the kitchen table.

The issue here in this thread is about protection and self defense... Not about who judges the criminal after he dies.





.

This thread is about doing what is right in a self defense situation. David was in a self defense situation, but please give me a New Testament example of a follower of Christ, being told to harm anyone for self defense reasons, or any other. This is relevant because Jesus set those who had died already free when He went into hell and got them. This tells me that He gave them all a chance to receive Him. After his resurrection, and even while He was walking around on earth, His message was always about sacrifice rather than protection of our physical selves.

 

[GenemZ]

This thread is about doing what is right in a self defense situation. David was in a self defense situation, but please give me a New Testament example of a follower of Christ, being told to harm anyone for self defense reasons, or any other. This is relevant because Jesus set those who had died already free when He went into hell and got them.

He went to Abrahams Side to set believers awaiting the payment for sins to be given access to Heaven.

In Hell he went to preach to the angels who rebelled during the time of the Flood. Read Genesis 6:1-4, to see what these angels did to get into trouble with the Lord.

2 Peter 2:4-5 (New International Version)
"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others."



1 Peter 3:18-20a (New International Version)
"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." ​

Now we're getting way off and derailing this thread. If you want to continue on this trail, start a new thread and let me know.


Merry Christmas!


Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

nope, we're not to use the weapons of this world or fight in the world's battles.

It is only by God's will that you live or die. What are christians so afraid of?

Paul was not even speaking of physical warfare. It was speaking of how men fight their battles with those who oppose their thinking.

Read the following.....

2 Corinthians 10:1-5 (New International Version)​

By the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am "timid" when face to face with you, but "bold" when away! I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."


​

The weapons of the world Paul spoke of were the in refernce to Roman cultural use of philosphical argument and debaters technique. That did not involve absolute truth. The one more skilled in the technique would win in the Roman world, even if he was not holding the truth on a matter. Skilled debaters could take one side, and then the opposing side... and win both times if he was skilled enough. It was not about truth. Philosophical argument could speculate into a position to overtake the opposition. Neither of the two ways possessed absolutes to be raised up as the standard like The Spirit gives the grace oriented believer.


Paul spoke about having dogmatic absolute truth by the Spirit in grace, and that he did not have to resort to using the weapons of the world when Divine point of view was opposed or attacked.



In Grace, GeneZ



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[GenemZ]

I've heard that too. Maybe I should go buy one of those too.

Here is a shotgun designed specifically for use inside a home...​

http://tinyurl.com/3xw9dk





.​

 

[GenemZ]

That's VERY bad advice.

He might also, upon hearing that sound, fire a volley of gunfire in the direction of that sound--thus endangering you and your family and any other people in the vicinity, because most common pistol or rifle cartridges will penetrate several interior walls easily.

Good you're here!

I have been searching this out. What I was told (several times) is a commonly held belief.

Here:

The 'scary cocking sound' or racking the slide is the biggest myth or bit of misinformation out today about the shot gun.
Its right out of Hollywood!
When you do this you:
1. Give up the element of suprise.
2. Give up your location.
3. Let your enemy know how you are armed.
This allows him to plan his 'attack' on you!
That friends is alot of intell you do not want him to know. It is far better to make him aware of your presents when he is looking down the bore with your (smiling) face behind it!!!

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=23790&page=3



My changed position.


Keep it loaded. Keep it on safety. If you can plainly see that cocking it would work? Then its a judgement call. I would have much preferred to have chased him off to begin with. But, when they are hyped up on drugs, rational thinking is put on standby mode.


Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

It depends where you live...

in this state all it takes is someone trespassing and one feeling that their life is threatened. It happens quite often, which I think is a good deterrent in itself.

 

[GenemZ]

in this state all it takes is someone trespassing and one feeling that their life is threatened. It happens quite often, which I think is a good deterrent in itself.

In one town in Georgia (Kennesaw) the town ordinance states that if you own a home, you are to own a handgun to protect your home. Fox News interviewed one of the Kennesaw police a few years back. He explained how the crime rate dropped about 30% after that became law.

I might add.. CNN's headquarters is only a short drive away. They would not touch it.


Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Soul Searcher]

Very few home invasions in the area where I live, largely due to the fact that many if not most homes have guns in them. They are still very easy to get here, in the summer time for example, you can usually buy shotguns or rifles at the flea market.