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We are not saved by works?

Johnny4ChristJesus

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Jason, thanks! Again, as always, I agree with the whole of the Scriptures.

I am curious about one thing: you consistently refer to the "grace of God" teaching us. Why do you not refer to the Holy Spirit and instead refer to the inanimate "grace of God" as if it is a separate entity in and of itself? Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ, but grace is not a person, it is an attribute of God. The Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth. We are to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh and when we do so, we will live righteously post-reception of the Holy Spirit. However, apart from the Blood and Testimony of Jesus Christ and the subsequent gift of the Holy Spirit, we could never ever earn our salvation.

I also agree with you on what you said about claims, once born again, that you are a sinner and can't help yourself. God gave us the Holy Spirit for multiple reasons. At the same time, John also shared other things which included praying for someone who was committing a forgiveable sin.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Thank you for continuing to give me things to think about. I am not afraid to think anything. Too many churchfolk think they are going somewhere they are not and I know that. I'm not intimidated by them; I fear and love God, because He first loved me.
 
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thecolorsblend

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If salvation hinges on your respond to the (a) gospel, you are the savior, not Christ.
If somebody offers you a million dollars and you accept it, you paid yourself the million dollars, not whoever actually paid you the million dollars.

Same logic, yes?
 
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Dave L

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If somebody offers you a million dollars and you accept it, you paid yourself the million dollars, not whoever actually paid you the million dollars.

Same logic, yes?
Not comparable to salvation. It's more like Lazarus dead and rotting in the tomb. After 4 days Jesus tells him to come out. Lazarus heard the command (gospel), so he was already alive at the time, and responded (repented) fleeing the stench of death.
 
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Dave L

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You are turning the gospel into law, and salvation by grace into salvation by works. The truth is, you believe and repent because God saved you. God did not save you because you chose to believe and chose to repent.

If the latter is true, people are saved because they chose to act like Christians which is hypocrisy.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Not comparable to salvation.
I was applying your thinking to something else. So let’s try again.

If somebody offers you a million dollars and you accept it, you paid yourself the million dollars, not whoever actually paid you the million dollars.

Same logic, yes?
 
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Dave L

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This is where Prevenient Grace comes in.
Also, good works are by-product of the Lord working in us when we surrender to Him.
Prevenient grace is not grace. Grace changes the dead human spirit into a living spirit baptized in the Holy Spirit. Not conditioned on human response. You believe because God saved you. He did not save you because you chose to believe.
 
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ExTiff

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God no longer holds the world's sins against them. They don't all know that though. We therefore tell them. They respond to that 'news' by either believing God no longer holds their sins against them and therefore, become themselves in return, reconciled to God, in mutual agreement at cessation of hostilities, OR they reject God's offer of reconciliation and continue in rebellion.
.
 
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Dave L

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I was applying your thinking to something else. So let’s try again.

If somebody offers you a million dollars and you accept it, you paid yourself the million dollars, not whoever actually paid you the million dollars.

Same logic, yes?
Salvation is not offered for our acceptance. God saves us (new birth) then faith and repentance follow.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Salvation is not offered for our acceptance. God saves us (new birth) then faith and repentance follow.
Lovely.

Now, would you care to answer the question I actually asked? If it helps, one possible answer is “yes”. The other possible answer is “no”.
 
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ExTiff

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If somebody offers you a million dollars and you accept it, you paid yourself the million dollars, not whoever actually paid you the million dollars.

We do not have the option of 'accepting salvation'. It is provided whether we like it or not. We can however reject it. It is more like your nationality. You have no choice but to accept it if your born in a certain country, but you can refuse to live there and burn your passport, if you are stupid enough.

Same with salvation.
 
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ExTiff

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Prevenient grace is not grace. Grace changes the dead human spirit into a living spirit baptized in the Holy Spirit. Not conditioned on human response. You believe because God saved you. He did not save you because you chose to believe.

O hearing the gospel, you believe that God has saved you. Belief is not a response, it is acceptance of The Truth, which in fact is Christ. Jn.14:6.This is why Paul says to the Galatians, "Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?".
.
 
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Dave L

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Do you need to choose to believe the chair you are sitting in is real? People who choose to believe do not believe, or they wouldn't need to fix their mind on something not experientially real to them.
 
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Dave L

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Lovely.

Now, would you care to answer the question I actually asked? If it helps, one possible answer is “yes”. The other possible answer is “no”.
If you stoop to pick up salvation, you are the savior, not God who dropped it in front of you.
 
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Dave L

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Then everyone is saved in the end?
 
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thecolorsblend

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If you stoop to pick up salvation, you are the savior, not God who dropped it in front of you.
I’ll go ahead and assume that your answer is “yes” then. Thanks.
 
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Wordkeeper

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The law of liberty allows us freedom in interpreting how faith, loyalty is to be expressed. the law of works did not have this freedom. It was compulsory to be circumcised. Everybody had to give tithes to the Temple.

However, the one who judges whether we showed loyalty or disloyalty is Christ, so we should be careful how we manifest that faith.

James 2:12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will bemerciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Your freedom is not from faith. It is from how you show that faith. It is from the Sinaitic Covenant.

1 Peter 2:16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.

Galatians 4:30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
 
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Dave L

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Again, your answer of “yes” has been duly noted. Thanks.
Simply put, if God did not first give you a new heart, you would love your sin more than him, and never come yo Christ. But, people love false images of Christ and follow that idol for all they're worth.
 
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